dialamah

True, being in a hotel room for a few weeks isn't much fun, but being in a refugee camp or living in a city that is regularly bombed is better? I seriously doubt that. It's not clear to me why the kids can't go outside to play. Are they told to stay inside? Or are they too uncomfortable to venture out? The only way knowing how many Syrian refugees return home would be relevant would be if that number were compared to number of refugees who ever return. I'm sure some do, when the situation in their home country improves.

Yet all the moaning about costs anti-refugee types such as yourself has done hasn't seemed to change anyone's mind. There is still significant support among Canadians for helping these people. Do you seriously think people don't know that their taxes pay for this help? Personally, I'd far rather we spent more on helping people than bombing or shooting people ... If I could arrange that none of my taxes went to any kind of war, that would suit me. Would it suit you?

What about zombie reptile people? Where do they fit?

Some women actually choose hooking and even enjoy it. But for those who actually are stereotypically damaged and desperate, they're the ones who would be "stealing" your hard earned money through "leftist" policies that would provide a decent standard of living/support/treatment to people who aren't working a legal job. That's not really something you are in favor of, is it?

It already happens "next door", even if illegally. Why would you think laws against it would prevent that?

Since the majority of our economy is based on providing things in addition to basic survival needs, aka "luxuries", your policy of taxing the bejeebers out of luxuries could put a lot of people out of work.

Yeah, the 'labeling' is kind of annoying, since I'm pretty sure most of us don't really fall into an absolute hard-line definition of either 'right' or 'left'. But I have to ask - if you object to being stereotyped as 'right', why do you sport a signature line that is a swipe at those who consider themselves liberal?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2011/2011-06-27.asp http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-516-x/sectionc/4057749-eng.htm http://www.pier21.ca/research/immigration-history/empire-settlement-act-1922 Mennonites. Chinese New Year. Hannukah. Diwali. All of these are part of certain immigrant groups belief systems, and we haven't had to deal with them. Just read this thread. How many of the people who've said or implied Syrian refugees are barbaric, unwashed, backward, etc., are immigrants or direct descendants of immigrants within a couple of generations?

Yes exactly. Merely pointing out to the member that his concerns about mental/emotional issues among refugees are known, and not not being naively ignored. Never have, was bullied in high school for making friends with a couple people of South Asian (current correct term, I believe) heritage. Again, merely pointing out to a member that Canada is and was full of people who think themselves "better than" some other group.

Your first paragraph was irrelevant as to how I'm using these terms, the one I've quoted is closer, but still confuses current politics with what might be human political organization in its smplest sense. It makes sense to me that a group of say 50 people, faced with surviving against nature with little more than their wits would be more likely to follow a more conservative leader. One who did not take chances, who stuck with the tried and true, and who even expected everyone to pull the their weight, although that expectation might be tempered with what the person is able to do, rather than what others are able to do. It would be the 'pogressive' person who would take risks and explore different ways of doing things, possibly with little support from his social group, at least till his efforts bore fruit. But I'm just engaging in some kind of play here, I could be way outmin left field.

Yet, the poster I responded to was talking about Muslim women in the UK objecting to something men were doing. Surely, that's got to be a better outcome than still being in a country where they're barely allowed to leave the house, let alone object and be heard around the world. Yes, taking advantage of freedom and understanding one's own personal rights takes time, and no doubt it starts with the second generation more than the first. But at least it starts. Early on the Liberal government did acknowledge that the refugees would have health issues, including mental health, that they would be screened for and if appropriate, provided treatment and counselling. Those issues are not being ignored. In the volunteer orientation I attended, the difficulties people have adjusting was specifically covered, and volunteers are asked to commit to at least a year to offer mental/emotional support to these people as well as help them adjust to Canadian life. Your assumption that everyone who supports the refugee are a bunch of naive do-gooders with rose-colored glasses who don't know what they're doing is just wrong. And again, you've suggested that refugees are dirty and diseased with no proof other than your own ugly prejudice. The prevalence rate of AIDS in Syria is .01%; in Canada, it's .2%. The Canadians who built this country were given free land, clothes, and equipment. They did bring their own belief systems with them and certainly did define others as 'inferior' to them. Just ask the First Nations people who were put onto reservations and into the residential schools. Just ask the early East Indian immigrants, referred to as ragheads and widely considered 'smelly', or the early Chinese settlers, relegated the most menial and dangerous jobs during the railroad building across Canada. Maybe you need to stop looking at history through rose-colored glasses.

My mistake then. I thought you objected to having an ignore feature

Only if you assume that only your perspective is the correct one. Maybe it's not. Maybe the statements you think are completely unacceptable appear completely reasonable to someone else. Is that other person's perspective less valid than yours? If I don't like what another poster says, or how they say it, why should I expect that people who do not find that poster offensive be denied their contribution? I'd rather have the wider latitude of less moderation along with the ability to decide for myself, through an ignore feature, who I did not feel was worth reading, than have someone else decide that for me.

I do. I also look at the non-progressives, such as yourself. Some of them come across to me as all too willing to indulge in insults, as you have done by saying 'progressives don't usually have the brains', Why do you indulge in insults while accusing others?

I'm on that forum, and I missed the invite! Damn!

And isn't it great that these Muslim women now live in a country where they can object, and be heard. Isn't it great that these men who still seek to marginalize women can't just do so - no questions asked. There's entrenched sexism in most cultures. Even cultures that claim to have eliminated that particular vice still have 'slut-shaming' and 'boys will be boys' kinds of cultural attitudes. Fortunately, since 1983 in Canada raping one's wife has been illegal so at least the Muslim women we welcome to Canada will have that same protection, along with protection from being battered and killed by their spouses (inasmuch as it works, which isn't very well). Like that little Afghani girl I saw yesterday: she'll be able to grow up knowing that she's important, and that men do not have the right to assault her. Western politicians pandering to misogynistic elements of society, whatever color/creed they are, should be condemned. That cannot be blamed on Islam or Muslims, so why do you use that as an argument to be 'cautious' about Muslims coming to Canada? Also, you haven't provided any evidence that wife beating, assault, etc., has increased at all in Canada among non-immigrants as a result of accepting immigrants from conservative, misogynistic cultures.

I think I should and respond if I want to. If I don't want to, then I don't need to eh? As for just ignoring a post, sometimes when one is in the heat of the discussion, so to speak, it's a better plan to just not even see something that might invite an immoderate response. Also, if it is someone who's comments don't generally add anything to the discussion, why bother? Finally, you can generally get a pretty good idea of what was said by reading the posts of member's who do respond. Anyway, it works for me.

Yup, that they are fleeing something in their own country is another defining factor. And, regardless of what some Syrians might say when asked in front of a camera, people who work with refugees every single day, say that refugees would prefer to go home than settle in Canada or anywhere else. As a matter of fact, they are so attached to their homeland, I seem to recall we had difficulty finding enough people willing to come to Canada.

So if a particular poster's style of writing and viewpoint just makes me see red, but I have to understand that my reaction is not necessarily the poster's intention, I have to take some responsibility for the fact that MY emotions may be affecting both my perception of what is written and how I respond. Thus it behooves me to hide/ignore those posters until perhaps I'm more able to read/respond with some detachment. Else I'd be well and truly banned by now. Ultimately, this is an internet discussion forum with a bunch of strangers who post for reasons of their own. Some might truly be here to stir up controversy, some might just be very poor at effective communication, some might even be here to learn different viewpoints. So, I don't really see it as the mod's jobs to take care of every little nuance of written communication; if someone's posting style or content isn't acceptable to me, it's best if I block them rather than expecting someone else to do it for me. I'm rather glad to have that option.

So tell me, what is progressives don't usually have the brains to form coherent arguments and progressives usually can't form coherent argument' if not an attempt to use insults to shut people up, and to shout them down?

Yeah, I do.

According to the refugee-helper orientation session I attended, one of the defining differences between refugees and immigrants is that refugees want to go back to their country of origin, if they can.

Ok I will grant you that people coming from Syria are likely to be more conservatively-minded than people from say, Europe, overall. Given that over the decades we've imported millions of people from various parts of the world, including oppressive regimes and conservative social culture, can you identify some actual data indicating a negative affect on Canadian culture? For example, India is another region of the world in which honor killings are not uncommon, where women are accorded less status than men and where homosexuality is penalized by law, all of which run counter to our current culture and laws. So I ask you, have the 1.3 million Indo-Canadians currently in Canada hindered progressive values from being incorporated? Have these Indo-Canadians made honor-killings, misogyny and gay bashing common among other Canadians? Have the values that the people brought with them from India translated into any kind of law in Canada? Or have we continued to expand our understanding of what equality, tolerance and acceptance means in our society even with these 'backwards' people landing on our shores, and taking part in our political system? If it cannot be demonstrated that the millions of migrants from conservative cultures that we've already got in Canada have affected Canadian pursuit of equality and tolerance for everyone, then I think even the caution you want to associate with Syrian refugees verges on an unreasonable fear of this group of people.

Currently I have two on ignore, but I change them up depending on my mood of the day or week. BC I have no trouble ignoring even though I've never put him on ignore. I just kind of consider him irrelevant, though I do like to sometimes reference America in some way so as to trip his filters and get him to respond. Even with several people on ignore, I've never had any trouble signing in.