SpankyMcFarland

You have shown yourself utterly immune to evidence on multiple occasions here. However, I will continue to post in this topic. Not everyone made their minds up years ago.

I think the number of civilians killed in Gaza is considered to be higher than 20,000 by most reputable sources.

In summary, the government showed no interest in keeping the mortality statistics above politics: https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-percent-civilians-militants/ So the health registry totals were constantly rubbished while the number of Hamas and IJ personnel killed was exaggerated.

Even some of the politicians pressuring the army for good news became suspicious: https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-percent-civilians-militants/

Gaza is tiny and the whole population has been under Chinese-style surveillance by Israel for years. Despite this the IDF couldn’t decide how many terrorists it had killed out of the total deaths. https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-percent-civilians-militants/ I don’t include the links to news stories in Hebrew. You’re welcome to go after them. Some of them are accessible in the link.

All through the war the same tactic was used: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-rejects-exaggerated-hamas-claims-of-people-killed-by-troops-near-gaza-aid-site/

From the very beginning of this conflict Israeli spokespeople cast doubt on health ministry figures they knew to be substantially true. Here is Lt Col Conricus: https://x.com/jconricus/status/1728806326703157459 The term ‘Hamas run health ministry’ was taken up across the Western media and viewers naturally assumed the figures were wildly inflated. The Israelis knew different. Of course, the problem arose when they came up with hard figures of their own which they generally avoided doing. When they did so, such numbers quickly contradicted each other.

I present facts - you scream racist. Who is the woke warrior here? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/03/israel-gaza-death-toll-accurate-health-ministry

The evidence is clear. From very early on in the conflict, Israel knew the Gaza health registry figures were realistic and were probably underestimates, given the number of people buried in the rubble.

From ynetnews, a publication considered centrist by Israeli standards: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hk6hmukizl

America faithfully followed Israel’s lead in this attempt to dispute the mortality figures. https://www.commondreams.org/news/genocide-denial-congress And poor old Joe Biden did not distinguish himself either.

Report from ABC that describes an Israeli denial.

This was a big effort: And it wasn’t confined to Israel either: Just keep it up Sparky.

Now people are denying they denied the death toll: https://x.com/History__Speaks/status/2017048266513187055?s=20

Here’s yet another example of Trump’s contempt for personal and diplomatic norms. On the planes issue, he could simply have behaved like a normal head of government and relayed his concerns to ambassador Hoekstra who could have had a quiet word with the relevant minister in Canada. Anybody remotely familiar with the politics of powered flight knows that the public expects certification to be independent of political pressure, esp. after the disasters Boeing has had in recent years. In this case there do seem to be delays certifying a few planes which could be speeded up in a way that does not endanger safety. But no, Trump had to threaten Canada publicly again in a way that, if carried through, would impact both civilian travel and the military in the US because he so enjoys doing that.

Just a little taste to be going on with:

You are on a hiding to nothing here, arguing for the sake of it. I’m just picking a few easily accessible articles at the moment to make my point which is not debatable by any sensible person. Here is an article from The Times of Israel. A few quotes: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/you-dont-have-a-numbers-problem-you-have-a-truth-problem/

Did you read the link I provided from the BBC? Do you think Google AI is run by Hamas? Have you really never heard the Israeli caveat about the numbers being made on North American TV over the last few years again and again?

The general point I would make here from a position of complete ignorance of Iran is that, unfortunately, 10% support may be enough to hold a country. Think of Belarus and Syria. With modern surveillance technology, in their case Chinese, you don’t need as many people as you used to watch everybody and keep them cowed. A high school I attended in the UK used to have trips to Iran before the Revolution. I dearly hope to see it some day. The two things I’d love to see are Persepolis, the capital of the old Persian empire (the biggest in the world at the time), and the Hyrcanian forests of the north but of course there is so much more. Tourist TV guy Rick Steves paid a visit maybe ten years ago and did a beautiful program on it. It would be marvellous to see Zoroastrianism celebrated properly in its country of origin again. Bahaism and Ismailism too. As religions go they seem to be among the best. Here’s a summary of Ismaili Muslim beliefs: embracing pluralism by building bridges of peace and understanding; and generously sharing of one’s time, talents, and material resources to improve the quality of life of the community and those among whom they live.

That is standard IDF practice. On many matters they never speak unequivocally and officially.

The number of ‘militants’ is going to take years to sort out, if it ever is, given the different criteria used by Israel and others to define them. However, the total number killed is a much simpler matter to discuss and that is what I am focusing on here. I have listened to countless US TV broadcasts that claimed the number of killed was a Hamas allegation and was exaggerated. On the number issue I just googled AI: There are multiple recent reports of this news: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgpd1x00exo Here is my first post on this subject in this thread. It’s fairly clear.

If you know anything about the subject you should know that the numbers have been hotly debated for years. BTW when I do present facts in detail, eg acetaminophen and autism, they have precisely no effect on you so why should I bother?

Hold on a minute. I am talking about the total number killed here. That was repeatedly disputed too.

Eby is a bit of an odd bird, not fully at ease as a politician and obviously still steaming about the pipeline proposal. I don’t think it was wise to call these misguided people ‘traitors’. It’s a bit melodramatic. However, I’ve no doubt Trump and Bessent would go completely ballistic if we were talking to separatists in any state down there.

The numbers have been constantly disputed by the Israeli govt, IDF and their many supporters as ‘Hamas’ numbers.