Hal 9000

Here's the letter to Fassbender regarding binding arbitration; http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/documents/teacher%20bargaining/Letters/00-Letter%20from%20Peter%20Cameron%20to%20Minister%20of%20Education%20Sept%206%202014.pdf

If they really want to make a difference, maybe the public sector unions should show some solidarity and do a walk-out. $500g from nurses union is chump change, lets see them give up a days work. This is my favourite quote; "We believe this significant sum will help teachers stand strong against a government trying to bleed them dry,"

It's just posturing! The teachers will vote for arbitration, then the BCTF and the media will play the "teachers are doing everything they can, but the Gov't...." bullshit card.

You sound more and more like Jacee with every posting.

Have you ever even been in a real forest WCR? This is just more environmental hysteria from the left - looks to me like somebody needs grant money. P.S - I wasn't going to respond to you because, well....you're a woman!

I remember when Forbes named Dan Cloutier the best dollar for dollar goalie in the NHL. I think they're just in for shock value.

Bob is hostile because teachers are not to be questioned - ever. I remember the outrage in 2005 when teacher salaries were leaked to the public. Teachers work for the people and we should be able to know whats going on and what we're paying these people for. Teachers are striking and our kids are the ones losing out - whether the teachers are right or wrong, we still need to know the truth. If Bob wants to challenge my numbers, he's very welcome.

If there are any class rooms with 7-12 people, some of those teachers should be laid off or transferred. I suspect Sharkman's school district has some issues that they need to deal with.

Another red herring! Anyway the answer is yes, A teacher puts in about 12% of their earnings and get back a generous 40K per year plus full benefits. If they work 2.5 days a week after retirement, they can easily top back up to 75-80k. If someone goes on leave, they can really bring in the cash. Yes, we are paying a teacher pension plus work. Now, if that teacher stayed retired, we'd obviously have to pay someone to work those days. My point is that we can pay a top tier teacher those hours or we can pay a lower tier/newer teacher, therefore paying a little less and also giving a younger teacher more hours.

So, the gov't doesn't pay anything towards the teachers pensions?

2002; Kindergarten: Cap of 20 students Grades 1 to 3: 22 students Grades 4 to 7: 28 students Grades 8 to 12: 28 students B.C. 2013-2014 class-size averages Kindergarten: 19.3 students (Current government cap of 22 students) Grades 1 to 3: 21.5 students (Cap of 24 students) Grades 4 to 7: 25.7 students (Cap of 30 students)* Grades 8 to 12: 23.0 students (Cap of 30 students)* *Can be exceeded in cases where large classes are beneficial, including band, drama and physical education. P.S If your wife has those numbers, maybe it's a problem for you school board office of you boundaries.

Do you honestly think the teachers will sign a contract that requires them to retire and stay retired? The doesn't even pass the giggle test!

Grade 3 and under is set at 20 students, and I believe the rest are set at 25 - is that so bad? We all survived classes of 30 or more when I went to school. What were the sizes in 2002? Besides, what do you thing 25$m is gonna do for class sizes throughout BC? Any meaningful class reductions are gonna cost 320-400$m per year.

The deal on the table is a good deal for the members, it's not a good enough deal for the BCTF.

Oh, I get it now. You one of these literal guys who doesn't understand human nature, deals, unwritten rules or friendships. You don't understand that someone who has been friends with other teachers will get the calls. Who do you think is first on every list? a teacher who has 25+ years experience, who goes to the bar and has sushi every friday, who you go fishing with on the weekends, who you've holiday'd with in Mexico/Cuba...wherever or.... some 25 YO girl.

With all due respect, I get the feeling that you guys are relatively young or at least your wife is somewhat new to this, but the union is on their own path. The teachers will figure this out soon enough, i hope. The Gov't has agreed to the raises, signing bonuses and the perks/concessions and agreed to 75$mil in new teachers. The Union says it wants 100$m. If the teachers are willing to go the scorched earth route for $25M that will do diddly nothing for them personally, they're just as naive as we all suspected. No, this is a Union that wants 2 things; new members and to crush the Liberals. They're willing to throw the teachers and our kids under the bus to get it too. P.S - In looking over the proposal, I could easily shave off half that $25m in useless expenditures myself. Sooner or later the teachers will realize the diminishing returns of their requests and hopefully ask their union to take the deal.

Yeah, the BCTF is stopping them...and, it's just one of those concessions that older teachers have been given. It's no accident or loophole, you can bet that it was negotiated to be exactly what it is. What does it say to you?

Really? When they negotiate retirement to be 52 and then negotiate perks and raises for subs and TOC's, that's exactly what they're doing otherwise, they'd encourage teachers to stay retired and start moving younger teachers up the ladder. What this proposal shows is that they want to perk the older teachers, yet still hire newer teachers at full rate/full time. If they made retirement a permanent choice, there'd be more money to move younger teachers up the ladder - and that's what they should do!

No chance, the system is set-up for the exact purpose of allowing these teachers to both retire and still keep working in the system. That;s why the TTOC's and substitutes are getting bumped up and why they get full pension, perks and benefits. If the Union wanted to bring in new teachers so bad, they wouldn't bargain for such things that make coming back so lucrative, they'd instead be promoting younger teachers. No, many of the negotiated perks are for the older teachers.

The point of the whole pension idea (for me anyway) is that people can't blame the government because young teachers have a hard time breaking in - they can look directly at the teachers themselves. Teachers technically retire, yet they are still working. This can not be good for anyone except those particular teachers. It's a loophole that the Union, the teachers and the government all know is there. It's one of the many concessions that the gov't makes to appease these people (with no thanks), so that the teachers who've been around the block can cash in - and they do...big time. It's just concessions like sick time, pro-D days, Prep days, TTOC's getting paid prep time, etc.etc. The teachers want (or wanted) 10 days paid for the death of a friend. If one actually studies the BCTF proposal, you can see how it's structured to enable these "retired" teachers to extract even more during their "golden years".

Slightly! You can't tell me that paying out pensions to teachers who are still teaching is cost effective. When a teacher hits retirement age and wants to keep teaching, they essentially get a 60-70% raise to their bottom line. Talk about "golden years". It should be - "you've retired, fine see ya! bring in the new blood".

Every strike has the old "exodus" to other lands argument. The teachers always do it, but the nurses are my favourite - sure you're gonna give up 35-40$ per hour plus OT, benefits and a cushy government pension to go to the us and work for a private hospital.

If they were working until retirement and then actually...retiring, we'd only be paying them once and would have money to employ more teachers - maybe...to you know, bring the class sizes down.

You guys sit and complain telling us how young teachers don't make enough and don't get full time until they're 30ish, then when I tell you why , you deny it, down play it and make excuses. Why? Because then you'd have to look toward the union or the teachers themselves for answers. There is no way that a 55 or 52 YO teacher should be collecting full pension and working for the same employer.

Harper is one of the few western leaders (maybe the only one) who didn't panic during the comic meltdown - and we're a better country because of it. That's all I care about - everything else is "wedge" issues and petty complaints.