Rovik

Win-win??? Hardly, as it looks like once again a Liberal leader is capitulating to Harper. Only difference this time is that the MSM are supporting Iggy left, right and centre. In their eyes, he can do no wrong. If this was Dion, the MSM would be all over it, saying same old, same old. If I had to choose a winner it would be Harper. In regards to the NDP, they can do not right because the MSM has always casted them in negative light. Hypothetically, let's say they came up with a sensible solution for one of Canada's ills, the MSM would either spin it in a negative way or convince people that the idea came from the Liberals in the first place. The ironic thing is that many of the EI reforms that Iggy now supports were originally pushed by the NDP. And in regards to Layton; well, again the media tend to give him a hard time. They exaggarate his zest for fanatism and ridicule his ideas. Yet, when he is proven right, they won't give him any credit or apologize to him. I remember many columnists making fun of Layton in re: to Afghanistan and dubbing him Taliban Jack. A couple of years later, a lot of what he suggested is actually being done, but there are no apologies from those that made fun of him (calling him Taliban Jack) or giving him credit for being right. The media is very powerful and very pervasive and unfortunately a lot of Canadians tend to be influenced by them. A case in point is their constant referral of the bad NDP govt of Ontario in the 90s. Yet, they don't mention Devine's corrupt Conserative govt. in regards to not voting Conservative or mention the Newfoundland's Smallwood Liberal govt of the 60s that gave away the churchill to Quebec. You would think (going by one hears from the media) that the only bad provincial govt. Canada ever had was Rae's NDP. And this leads me to another thing that doesn't make sense to me. Many Liberal supporters will point to Rae's NDP govt as a reason not to vote to NDP, yet they are willing to forgive Rae completely because he is now a Liberal. Convoluted logic if you ask me.

With Obama and now Harper and the Conservatives believing that the way to peace in Afghanistan is negotiating with the moderates in the Taliban, it brought back memories of this old thread from 2006. Staunch supporters of Harper back then were totally against it; wonder if they have changed their minds since Harper has changed his tune. Guess Layton was not so crazy after all when he suggested the very same thing back then.

Harper making Williams look like a fool?!?..I strongly disagree. This type of talk is simply typical rhetoric from Conservative/Harper supporters who are still angry that Williams exposed Harper for all his broken promises, and in the process, made Harper look bad because of it. Harper broke several promises to the province, not just the Atlantic Accord (and there were three Conservative members, for all the good that did us, at the time that didn't have any backbone to fight for Newfoundland.) Harper, by breaking his promises, had to be told that this was unacceptable in a strongly matter. This was done when Newfoundland showed its displeasure by not voting for any Conservatives. So now everything is even. The slate is clean and the honourable to do is to move on. We'll see if Harper acts grown-up and is not vindicative towards Newfoundland; if he does, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

PR will not happen anytime soon because there is no will within most of the parties to implement it. The only party that for it is the NDP. PR will detrimentally impact the other parties in regards to seat counts, therefore they will have nothing to do with it.

The ironic think about all this is that by May running in this district, she has split the anti-conservative vote that could have otherwise possibly went to the NDP and given the NDP a win here. One has the remember that the NDP ran a very good campaign last election and gave McKay a scare. It's kind of funny that she advocates an anyone but the Conservatives approach but by her running here, she has given the Conservatives a relatively easy win.

I disagree. Green support will move to all parties..(even a small faction of Greens will vote for the Conseravatives.) In fact, there will Green voters who will feel betrayed by May's informal alliance with the Liberals...and if they decide not to vote for the Greens, they will neither vote for the Liberals on principle.

Not necessarily. A lot of this support might go to the NDP, especially in ridings where they are seen of having a chance winning. I wouldn't be shocked if Liberal incumbents lose to NDP candidates especially in parts of BC and Ontario unless the Liberals have some sort of resurgence toward the end of the campaign. It could happen but I would be a tiny bit surprised. In regards to Newfoundland, the Liberals have always done well traditionally so I wouldn't be surprised if they win up to six of the seven seats, but it also looks like the NDP will win at least one seat and maybe 2 (and the NDP haven't won a seat in Newfoundland in a long time). The ABC philosophy of Danny Williams has a played a role in a possible total collapse of the Conservatives but is not the only reason. In my opinion, this is how Newfoundland seats will stack up (out of 7): Liberals 4-6 seats NDP 1-2 seats Conservative 0-1 seat (only chance is Fabian Manning in the Avalon district) Greens - a non-factor, a big reason is due to their opposition to the seal hunt

Victory impossible in Afghanistan: senior British commander Looks like Layton was right all along. I think that all those who made wise cracks and called Layton "Taliban Jack" owe him a big apology.

At least the NDP and Liberal candidates had the decency to quit the race. The Conservative's Ritz and Richardson should have done the same and if they didn't voluntarily quit they should have been forced to by the party. But why am I not surprised.

Come on..and Dion's platform with the carbon tax is fiscally viable and will redistribute wealth. That is hiliarious..Dion's platform will have a huge detrimental impact on Canada's wealth..almost like the pot calling the kettle black. And in regards to Leyton wanting a coalition with the Liberals; the media has blown this out of proportion...he said he was willing to work the parties to get things done...not a coalition. And if I were the NDP, I wouldn't touch the Liberals with a ten foot pole. The Liberals are the most arrogant (yes, even more so then the Conservatives) bunch of individuals I ever seen. And i can't see how anyone can support them after the hiding "under the blankets" routine they pulled in the last sitting of the HOC (because they were scared to force an election.) They were more concerned about their own political lives then the Canadian people they represented.

Billions of dollars have been sunk into a war that even the experts don't know if we will win in the long term. Billions of dollars that could have been put into the healthcare system (where people are dying due to long wait times, obsolute or inadequate equipment), a crumbling infrastructure (bridges, roads, buildings)which in many parts of Canada are in critical shape, schools in Canada that are are 50+ years old (other schools that have serious mold problems,) education where many university students come out with $50000+ student loan debt, homelessness, childcare, quality of education and on and on. Monies spent here would have positive impacts on Canadians...monies spent in the war in Afghanistan have virtually no impact on the day-to-day lives of Canadians. Many say the war in Afghanistan will benefit the people of Afghanistan. If this was the case, why haven't we gone into Zimbabwe, Sudan, Somalia or Burma to improve those countries' people quality of life and to prevent killings. Many say the war will prevent the spread of terrorism in the world. Well if this was the case, why haven't we gone into Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan and others that have strong terrorist links. Many compare the Afghanistan war to War World I & II. Well in war world I & II, we were dealing with countries with modern armies that were taking over countries. In the Afghanistan war, we are dealing with a ragtag group that doesn't have an air force, navy and very little heavy duty artillery (such as tanks.) To compare the Afghanistan War to War World I & II is (in my humble opinion) borders on ludicrous Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that a few people in Afghanistan are living better lives because we are there and I believe that the Canadian soldiers over there are doing great work. I'm one of those people who believe that you can support the soldiers but not the war. We've been there long enough and if NATO wants to stay there long-term then they should some other country (within NATO) to take over what the Canadians are doing now...I have a feeling that NATO would have a hard time getting takers. To sum up, the money should be spend within Canada to help Canadians not a sinkhole of a war in Afghanistan without little or no benefit.

A couple of comments in regards to what has been said in this thread. First, the NDP has pushed the FPTP for a long time now but the Liberals, Conservatives and the Bloc have been against (because they know they if they did, they would lose seats..so they are more concerned about their own well being instead of democracy in Canada as a whole.) Second, re: the Green's carbon tax plan. How about the people in the colder sections of the country that have no choice but to use a lot of oil to keep their houses warm (and this includes many low-income families as well.) How can they cut back; the answer is that they can't, therefore they will be hit hard by a carbon tax. Secondly, a big part of this plan seems to be pushing public transit. This would be great if you lived in a city that had public transit but if one lived in a smaller town that didn't; then you would have no choice but to drive. Let's face it; if Canada had the climate of Florida, maybe this might be a good plan (some aspects anyway) but we live in the North and we have to use energy to stay warm in the Winter. And I'm wondering if this plan excludes gas or not? I had to laugh when she mentioned she will be doing railway whistlestops across the country from Halifax to Vancouver. Guess she forgot that Newfoundland was part of the country. To be fair, there is no railway on the island of Newfoundland anymore but if they advocate the rebuilding of the Newfoundland railway, (which I tell you won't be cheap,) well so be it. Of course, the Greens may have given up on Newfoundland as the Greens want to ban the seal hunt which is a very unpopular stance here. Most of the ridings here have parachuted Greens running as they can't find anyone local who wants to represent them.

And how is tax breaks to corporations going to help a single mother pay the rent bill, or pay $800/month daycare in Edmonton? How is big oil tax breaks going to help a taxi driver on a 8 month waiting list for a MRI in Corner brook? How are tax breaks going to help a low-income family in Charlottetown pay for the increased costs for oil and gas when their budget is already maxxed out? How are tax breaks going to help a graduating student in Halifax with a $75000 student loan debt? Tax breaks to big oil are not going to help these people. Instead of tax breaks to big oil, social programs should be strenghtened to help these people. Actually over the years, it has been other parties that have stole ideas from the NDP (ie..medicare.) Many of Leyton's ideas are good; such as proportional rep. with the HOC but the Conservatives and the Liberals don't want to proceed down that road because it's not in their best interest. And I believe to make banks, cell phone companies and oil companies accountable for any service charges and rate increases would be very popular with many in Canada but both the Conservatives and Liberals seem to be heavily influenced by the lobbyists form these sectors in addition to donated monies so they are not going after them. Well I don't know about not voting or him; he'll get his share of votes. I believe the Jack Leyton and the NDP have huge obstacles in getting their message out to the people. First, many try to paint him as a extreme left-wing nutcase. In fact, I find the attacks are very personal and baseless. People try to turn his zeal and his energy for what he is trying to do into some sort of fanaticism. It's fear-mongering; pure and simple. People have tagged the moniker Taliban to him as he previously suggested that the govt. of Afghanistan will have to eventually negotiate with the Taliban for peace. But guess what, many others including Canadian reps have said the same thing and don't be too shocked that if there is any peace in Afghanistan; it is because it included bringing in the moderates of the Taliban into the govt. Don't laugh; you wil be surprised who is in the govt now; we're talking warlords and drug lords. If this happens, I like to see the people who put down Leyton's idea apologize (though it won't happen.) Second, people try to paint the NDP as an extreme socialist party who will bankrupt the country. Well the NDP are social democrats, not pure socialists and will endeavour to have a balanced budget (in the last election, the budgets of the three parties were not far off if I can call correctly.) And ponder this, Harper's govt. has been one of the biggest spenders in Canadian history. And look at all the election goodies worth millions and millions of dollars they are spewing out now. They seem pretty loose with the taxpayer's money to me. Third, many invoke the spector of Rae's 90's NDP party as an example of how the Federal NDPS would govern if they were in power. Yet, you don't hear Devine's bad Sask. Conservative govt. as a comparsion to the Federal Conservatives or Smallwood's bad NF Liberal govt. as a comparsion to the Federal Liberals. Let face it; all the parties have had bad provincial govts at one time or another, yet it seems only the NDP's provincial govts are referenced...doesn't seem fair to me. Fourth, the Conservatives and Liberals tend to be talked about most in the media and have the support of most columnists across the country. It's hard to fight that no matter what you try. Sadly, this leads to the general public mainly focusing on the Conservatives and the Liberals because they hear about those two parties a majority of the time. And the old adage is true; "out of sight, out of mind." Sadly, these mistruths, scare-mongering and little media attention have turned some people (who would be natural supporters) away from the NDP.

Well then, if he was aware of the consequences; why did he give the promise in the first place? If I can recall correctly, the promise was made just before the last election and that was not the only onehe broke..the Conservatives also promised to build up the base at Goose Bay within 24 months...well it hasn't happened, yet the Conservatives have recently promised extra monies for the base at Trenton. I can't really trust any promises they make this election considering their poor track record last election.

The NDP, just like any other national party, ultimate goal is to become the ruling govt. Therefore, the leader of any national party should be ultimately running for the PM. And it doesn't matter if you win or lose the PMship but at least you give it your best try When I hear comments like, Layton's an idiot for even saying he running for PM or the NDP will say anythng to get elected because they don't stand a chance, I have to question the intelligence of anyone who makes such comments. To me, these comments smack of elitism, arrogance, fear-mongering and just plain stupidity.

The monies were promised to Newfoundland without any strings attached. And the fact of the matter is that Harper broke his promise which cheated Newfoundland out of billions of dollars. And that goes to the heart of the matter; Harper broke his promise to the Newfoundland govt. and the Newfoundland people who elected the govt.

Can you quote where he would exclusively promote the LPC because as far as I know, he supports the ABC philosophy...Anyone But Conservatives which means the NDP, Greens and yes the LPC, (but again not the LPC exclusively.)

The Green party, in my opinion, is a party of smoke and mirrors, not substance. The only reason why many people vote for them is because they have "green" in their name and they think green must be good (sad misinformed people.) Here in Newfoundland, they are almost hated as they are the only one of the "mainstream" parties (if you can call them mainstream that is) that are opposed to the annual seal hunt. This even though; the seal population is very healthy, the hunt is policed with strict standards for hunting (as compared to many other types of hunts in the world) and that the fishery provides employment for many Newfoundland, Maritime and Quebec fishermen.

Really, explain why Layton is sleazy without resorting to name calling, exaggerations and untruths.

I have to give a thumbs-up on the govt. for this, but I also have the kudos to the NDP for pressuring the govt. and bringing this into the public eye. Seems like, once again, it's the NDP providing an effective oppostion while the Liberals are once again, lost in the clouds.

Several things here: Many people, in an attempt to scare others from considering the NDP, will often villify or monsterize the NDP by either overly exaggerating the truth or in some cases outright lying. - First, many will call the NDP a socialist party to scare people about the party but the NDP are not a socialist party, they are a social democrat party (big difference.) A purely socialist party tends more to the extreme left while a social democrat party is more centre-left. People skew this but saying that since the NDP are to the left and socialists are to the the left. then the NDP is a socialist party. With that same logic, I could say the Conservatives are to the right but so is fascism, therefore Conservatives = Fascists. This is not true of course but you see the pont. - Second, people always point to the scary Ontario NDP govt. of the 80s like they were the only bad Provinical govt. that Canada ever had. And they also use this govt. as why you shouldn't vote for the Federal NDP. Yet, no one ever mentions former Grant Devine's Sask.'s Conservative govt or former Smallwood's Newfoundland Liberal govt. as a reason not to vote for either the Federal Conservatives or the Liberals. - Third, many attack Jack Layton as a looney, not understanding the way things are. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on the way one looks at it, he tends to be very passionate about what the NDP believes in and people tend to use this against him. It's too bad Harper and Dion don't have this same type of passion, perhaps the House of Commons wouldn't be in the shape it's in and people within look at the whole system with such cynism. - Fourth, the NDP has been the de facto opposition NDP since the Liberals have wimped out and become buddies with the Conservatives. It's too bad the media hasn't reported on this (especially the issues that the NDP has brought up in the House of Commons.) It's funny, the NDP could have 6 members bringing up an issue and the Liberals have one member bring up the same issue; yet, the media will report on the one Liberal member's comments and not on what the 6 NDPers said. In regards to the recent by-elections: - The Greens took votes from all the parties, not just the NDP. - With just over 10% of eligible voters voting, it's hard to make a judgement on such a low number. - There have been 8 by-elections since the last general election and the NDP weren't favoured in any, yet they did win one. Overall, I think that bodes well for the NDP.

Hey Topaz, here's a link with more details of what you referred to: Tories try to dampen Afghan overspending report As per usual, whenever Conservative posters see something here they don't like or paints the Conservative party in a bad light, they completely change the topic...in this thread , they talk about 9/11, which has nothing to do with the cost of the war in Afghanistan. The war which is way over budget and after 5 years and billions of dollars in which there has been virtually little change in Afghanistan (except make the warlords, opium-growers and corrupt govt. happy) has siphoned monies that could have been used to fix a crumbling infrastructure network here in Canada, could have been used to boost healthcare systems (and who knows how many lives could have been saved because of improved healthcare), and could have been used to help beleaguered students coming out of University with staggering debts. Billions and billions have been spent and there's no guarantee that the situation in Afghanistan will ever get better. It's a gigantic waste I have to be fair, it's not just the Conservatives that are the blame, but also the Liberals.

As much as I'm against the many of the ideologies of the Conservatives, I have come to the conclusion that the Liberals are, by far, the most inept and useless party in Parliament. After just watching the budget vote and just witnessing the Liberals playing their foolish games, I can't see why anyone would vote for these guys. And Dion, why did you even bother to vote at all when you have most of your caucus abstain. It's so sad to see what the Liberals have become...chickens that are scared to stand up for their constitutents because "they are not ready" for an election. Let's face it, they are more concerned about saving their own behinds then to do their jobs and actually be an effective opposition. Unbelievable. EDIT: The title of this thread has been changed to federal Liberal performance as official opposition, Stop Playing Games and do Your Job to be more descriptive of the topic. The original title was Stop Playing Games and do Your Job before the change.

This is a typical Conservative budget, and sadly supported by their lapdogs of late, the Liberals. There is nothing in this budget for the people who need it the most: the poor and low incomers. There are no monies to help toward affordable housing, no increase in minimum wage for the working poor and no improvements to the child care system. And the incentive to buy clean cars with a rebate has been killed. If one person recieved this rebate, then it has been a success (as that is one small step in helping the environment.) As much as many of you try to ridicule or discount the NDP, they are absolutely right in what they say about this budget.

One thing you should know. There is no whaling fishery in Newfoundland, not since 1972. In fact, whale-watching is playing a big part in Newfoundland's tourism. Perhaps you shouldn't have given the impression that whaling is going on in Newfoundland when it hasn't in a long time. Second, the seal hunt is a regulated hunt with set quotas. The seal population is at very healthy levels in fact. With your logic, perhaps you are also against moose and caribou hunting..maybe even snaring rabbits and shooting ducks for consumption. In addtion, the seals are killed much more humanely then what they do to chickens and cows, before they are killed to be sold as burgers or fried chicken at fast food joints. Have you ever saw chickens been force fed to fatten them up quicker; not very pretty. For all those who put down the seal hunt yet eat burgers and chicken dinners, as far as I am concerned, they are hypercrites.