Rovik

Shoop: Yes, I agree the unfairness does indeed run both ways, thought personally I've heard the NDP demonized and wrongly labelled much more so then the CPC. Even in the media I have found this true. Don't believe me? Just read the attacks on the NDP by many of the right wng columnists of the Sun chain of newspapers (Ezra Levant, Peter Worthington and Paul Jackson are just a few that come to mind.) I've heard Rae's name brought up much, much more to critisize the NDP than I have Harris to critisize the CPC. Slim McSquinty: I have also seen some right wing sites that are very, very scary abd very intolerant themselves . Argus: People don't trust the CPC because people feel the CPC are a party of special interests, and see mainstream poor to low to middle-class Canada as a bunch of lazy bums that should make their own way in the world without the government's help, they would cut social programs such as EI and Social Assistance to people who really need it, and increase tax cuts to multi-billion dollar corporations and the rich, while many people live in poverty and often don't have a home to call their own (much less rent) In addition, most of us are highly suspicous about the commitment of the CPC to basic freedoms, esp freedom of speech. If you look to USA, a right wing such as the CPC is, govt. has taken away many rights and freedoms in the name of fighting terrorism. People now have to be careful not to be misunderstood on what say on phone lines to avoid wire tappers from making the wrong conclusions. To us poor to low to middle class Canadians, a vote for the CPC is seen as a vote for lower corporate taxes, dismantlement of the social safety net, an intrusion on human rights such as the right for all to marry, and meant to brainwash us into believing that the banks and big corporations have our best interests in mind. My thanks to Shoop, for giving me the idea on how to reply to Argus. Scriblett: I can also quote a certain CPC leader that makes him seem extreme. That's an easy game to play. Shoop: I haven't talked to many that have said that. Most i have talken to have basically said that they are social democrats with a conscience. And just to add; social democracy and pure socialism are not the same thing and to say otherwise would be plain wrong.

Ever notice that many Conservative supporters (and Liberal ones as well, though not as much) call the NDP such terms as Communists, Socialists, Marxists and goodness knows what else. In reality, the NDP are Social Democrats. Are these people that scared of the NDP, that they are trying to make them out to be the boogey man. It's really sad if you ask me. Another scare tactic they use is bringing up the Rae govt from the early 90s. You would think this was the worst govt. ever in the history of the world. Yet they don't bring up other provinicial govts such as Grant Devine's last than stellar govt. in Sask. that ran deficits for multiple terms. They don't mention the Liberal and Conservative govts. in Newfoundland during the 70s, 80s and 90s, that put Newfoundland in a bad financial situation. They don't mention that the Trudeau's Liberal govt and then Mulrooney's Conservative govt. put Canada deep in debt. No, it's because they only want you to believe that only the NDP can have bad govts. I think these people are either misguided or are scared of any inroads that the NDP may make Federally so they fabricate lies and half-truths to scare people from the NDP. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

my take: vote: :angry: Liberals for corrupt govt. that continously breaks promises and pretends to be centre-left during elections but turns into a right leaning party after they win. Conservatives for govt which is American like, pro business, pro war, whose easily swayed by religious groups (just like Bush's administration) Bloc if you want two separate countries NDP if you want a calming influence in a minority govt, that will help moderate govt. policies, protect public healthcare, push for attainable education, look out for the environment and be there for the average Canadian.

Going by the Decima survey, it seems the NDP are the most biased against. And I can understand this. For example, when I read the different columnists across the country it seems most either succintly or blatantly support either the Conservatives or Liberals. I have read some that support the NDP but they are by far the minority. It's a hurdle that the NDP face that the Conservatives and Liberals don't have.

This is a followup to what i mentioned earlier about the Greens and their stance on the seal hunt. The Greens have seen their highest profile organizer Lori-Ann Martino resign and their candidate in labrador quit the race because of their ill-advised stance on the seal hunt. Here are a couple of links detailing the above. Sealing stance prompts Green organizer to quit and Green candidate quits over party's anti-seal hunt stance They haven't historically got many votes in NL but with this stance, they will get virtually none now. And I'll be surprised if they will run a full slate in NL unless they bring in candidates from outside NL.

Winning the Labrador by-election would have been tough even if all the NDP's federal caucus visited during the by-election. The only person who could have won it for the NDP was Randy Collins (popular NDP MHA for Labrador West.) And even then it would have been close. Liberals own coastal Labrador and do well in other parts of Labrador I also believe that if Randy Collins did run that you would have had Leyton and other federal NDPers visit the area.

How about the National Post and the Sun chain of newspapers. Man, these guys are super-biased toward the right wing. Let me think of a few..hmm..Charles Adler, Peter Worthington, Tom Brodbeck, Douglas Fischer are just some of the columnists that are Pro-Conservative (in my opinion.) Another thing I noticed is that most Western Canadian media is pro-right. I hope that most Western Canadians won't be brainwashed by this pro-right media.

Here we go again with the Bob Rae govt from, the early 90s. People who want to scare others about the NDP will always mention the Bob Rae govt., but they neglect two things. First, they don't mention the terrible provincial govts in Canada over the years such as the Conservatives' Grant Devine's govt in Sask., in which he ran four straight deficits or the fact that both the Conservatives and Liberals had govts in Newfoundland that have consistently ran deficits since Confederation in 1949. Secondly, it was bad timing. The NDP were in power when Ontario was still in the midst of a recession that was essentially worldwide. When the Conservatives and Harris won, Ontario was starting to come out of its deficit due to a rebound in the world economy, so no matter what govt. was in, they would see an increase in the economy. In this case, bad luck for the NDP and good luck for the Conservatives.

This could be good for the NDP. Many, many people including myself, have always been leery of the union's influence on the NDP. Perhaps this may tell people that the union's influence on the NDP is waning and could result in more votes for the NDP.

The NDP did the smart thing. They were in a position to see some of their policies been implemented, which is the next best thing to being the government. Many people (students, low-income people, etc.)across the country will be benefiting from the monies that the NDP got out of the Liberal govt. Here was an opportunity that they may/may not get anytime soon so they had to take advantage of it. The NDP were willing to work with the Liberals for the good of Canada until the Liberals decided to return to their snobbish, arrogant ways once again. Since the Liberals weren't willing anymore to listen than the NDP had not other choice. Would you be willing to work with somebody who had no intentions of working with you...I think not.

Actually I considered the Green Party fairly highly until today. They come out with a press release against the seal hunt. Now, if you are from Newfoundland, you will realize that the seal hunt is an an important way to supplement many people's income especially those in the outports. The seal hunt has been ongoing for hundreds of years and is done in the most part humanely, other than by the rare individual. Of course, organizations like Greenpeace and PETA will tell you about the one person who might be breaking the rules and not tell you about the 100 who are doing it right. They gather millions in donations from people around the world that don't know the situation here in Newfoundland but are manipulated by these group's propaganda and skewering of the truth. If the seal hunt was ever completely banned, than I suggest that the killing of chickens and cows should be banned as well. And in actually fact, chickens and cows are treated much more inhumanely than seals...just ask a chicken who is force fed with tubes...of course, chickens don't look as cute as adorable little baby seals so people don't care. And by the way, sealers are not allowed to kill baby seals, only the adults, though if you looked at a Greenpeace propaganda film you would think that the baby seals are what the sealers go after first. So for those who are against the seal hunt but are perfectly happy to enjoy their chicken or steak suppers, in my opinion, those people are hypocrites.

Hmmm...the GST The GST, introduced by the Conservatives, Liberals promised to get rid of it in '93 and didn't, The Conservatives want to cut it down now. Ok, what does this tell me? It tells me how idiotic the Cons and the Liberals are and to vote NDP.

We all know that polls can change drastically from week-to-week or even day-to-day, therefore, people should take these polls with a grain of salt. But having said that, if indeed when election day comes and there is a perception of a Liberal majority, this could be good for the NDP. Many soft-core NDP voters who would be scared to death of a Conservative govt might feel it's safe to vote NDP without the fear of a Conservative govt. Many of these voters voted Liberal last election to thwart a Conservative govt. Of course this was due to blatant scaremongering by the Liberals who will do anything to win an election including vote-buying and stealing policies from other parties, but that's another topic.

Well MacKay would strenghten the Conservatives chances in Ontario and Atlantic Canada. BUT, there are two things going against them. First, as already mentioned, many Conservative supporters remember his broken promise with Orchard and wouldn't trust him. And secondly, many Conservative supporters Manitoba-West, would consider him part of the old PC party and would believe he might turn his back on many of the principles of what make Reform so popular out west. Harper, on the other hand comes from the old Reform guard and is popular in Western Canada. BUT, there are four things going against him. First, he seems distant and unfriendly and this may scare off many potential Conservative voters. Secondly, he seems to have an inner circle that he mainly takes direction from, and if you are not in his inner circle, he won't listen to you. Third, many people from Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada believe he would push a Western agenda onto the rest of Canada, which though may be good for parts of Western Canada, would not be good for Eastern Canada. And lastly, many people in Atlantic Canada still remember his "culture of defeat" statement and are leary of him. Therefore, I would have to say that neither could lead the Conservatives to government.

Hmmm...I had previously posted my scores but yet I'm not on the chart. But no, I'm not posting out of sour grapes (I don't care if I'm on the chart or not..lol) but just to note that it would be interesting if the location of the posters, say NL or AB was next to the poster's name. I'm willing to bet that the further east one goes, the more left of centre the scores (except for maybe some urban centres out west like Vancouver.)

From Canoe web site: Click Here: I find it interesting that only the NDP were fiscally prudent to not have a debt. Funny how CPC and Liberal supporters always claim that the NDP is not good with money management. Considering that both the CPC and the Liberals were well over $1 million in debt, these same CPC and Liberal supporters are obviously hypocrites. Because to me it seems that the CPC and the Liberals are the ones that can't handle money.

It's a socialist party, how is it a scare tactic? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By calling Canada the "United Socalist Republic", it is close to calling it the USSR, which is indeed a scary image. And besides I don't believe the NDP is a truly 100% Socialist party though that moniker suggests otherwise. If I wanted to scare people from voting Conservative, I could say that Canadians don't want Canada to be like the 51st state. Just another example of a scare tactic

Because Canadians don't want a United Socialist Republic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Prime example of a scare tactic.

There are several reasons (in my view:) - Media. The media report very little of the NDP. They tend to focus on the Liberals and the Conservatives. Therefore media drives the public perception, for if people don't hear as much about the NDP, they tend to believe that the NDP are not as important. And this goes into the next reason. - Media Bias. Seems that most of the media in the country are either pro-Conservative or pro Liberal. The Sun chain and the National Post are blantantly Conservative (ever read some of their columnists....wild) and the Toronto Star and the CBC tend to be pro-Liberal. The scattered column on the NDP tend to be mostly negative almost to the point of ridicule. And these columnists have a bigger impact on people then many may believe. It's funny, in the last election campaign, many columnists were calling Jack Leyton over the top or just plain happy. But I betcha, if Martin or Harper acted the same way, many of these same columnists would say that they were driven and committed. - Scare Tactics. Both the Liberals and Conservatives tend to scare potential NDP supporters by saying the if the NDP ever came into power, they would bankrupt the country. Often they will bring up Bob Rae's Ontario NDP govt. of the early 90s as an example. But guess what, Sask. had a horrible Conservative govt. in the 80s when Devine was premier. Newfoundland have had both Liberal and Conservative governments over the years that have had continous deficits but no one ever mentions these examples. No one ever mentions the fact that both Sask. and Manitoba NDP govts. have had many balanced budgets over the years. The Liberals are also masters at scaring potential NDP supporters during elections by saying that if they vote NDP, they will be opening the door for the evil Conservatives to rule. And then they say that only they, the Liberals can provide what the people of Canada want for education, environment, education, daycare, etc. Funny thing is that they either steal NDP ideas and make them their own or promise to do something and not do it, but come election time they will promise to do the same thing again...a neverending promise. - Union-Interests. This one I can see to a point. Many people don't like the influence the union has in the NDP and it's true, there is some union influence but not as much influence as people tend to believe. Just as the Conservatives and the Liberals have big-time corporate donations, (and one has too be completely naive if they believe the corporations don't want anything in return such as influence,) the NDP has union donations. Bills have to paid and elections aren't cheap. And regarding Quebec. Right now there are two choices, the Liberals (federalist) and the Bloc (separtists and federalists pissed at the Liberals because of Adscam.) I don't know what the NDP (or the Conservatives for that matter) can do to make inroads in Quebec. The only thing I could see is if the NDP was headed by a popular Quebec francophone (someone whose first language is French and has lived in Quebec all of his/her life.)

I agree with Kimmy. I would be astounded even if the Liberals keep the same amount of seats they have now in Quebec. Unless something drastically changes, Liberals will lose seats in Quebec to the Bloc. I can't see Ontario and BC changing much. If there is any change it might be the NDP winning some more seats. Atlantic Canada won't change much. Alberta won't either. And for those predicting a complete CPC sweep there, I wouldn't be too sure. Anne McCellan (spelling?) would give a good fight. Kilgour is gone unless he runs for the CPC (if the CPCs allow him to join.) Maintoba and Sask. won't change either, though I can see the NDP winning a seat in Sask. In short, no Liberal majority.

My results: Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.90

By-elections are not usually won by the opposition. It depends entirely on where the by-election is being held. And if the Conservatives at thirtysome percent suffered a "crashing defeat" what can we say about the NDP at 10%? Miserably pathetic, perhaps? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Miserably pathetic? Not really. As you may have noticed, the NDP virtually didn't use much resources and money in this by-election. Why? Well, even if they had won, it wouldn't been much benefit to them unlike the Liberals and Conservatives. With the Liberals winning, they have that one vote buffer they didn't have before. If the Conservatives had won, they would have that one extra vote to bring the govt. down. So what did the NDP do. They ran a low-profile candidate with virtually no campaigning and won 10%. They knew that there will be a general election in less than a year and best to save the time and resources fot that. And if they get a high profile candidate like Randy Collins to run, (very popular NDP MHA for Labrador West) who mused about this by-election before deciding not to do it, they might have a shot. And a lot can happen in less then a year, perhaps the ADScam could get worst for the Liberals or perhaps the Liberal member might misstep.

Liberals will win (and I'm not a Liberal supporter by the way.) The 5 Wing Base in the Goose Bay area may swing some votes to the Conservatives, but only in the Goose Bay area. There will still be a few Liberal votes in this area with some votes from NDP diehards. In Labrador West (Labardor City and Wabush), where Graham Letto the Conservative is from is a union town with a popular NDP MHA in Randy Collins. Most of the NDP votes will come from here and the NDP candidate is from Lab West as well. Independent Ern Condon will get a few votes as well, from the same people who voted for The Labrador Party in the last provincial election. The Conservatives will get votes here as well as the Liberals. Remember, 5 Wing has no significance here so it won't impact on the Liberals as much. Yes, there will be some turned from the Liberals because of the scandal and the fact that Russell is not from this area (while the NDP and Conservative candidates are) may hurt slightly. On the coast, both North and the Staits, the Liberals will rule especially in the areas with strong Metis populations and the Innu and Inuits will vote Liberal for many fear they would be in less position of power if the Conservatives ever get in. And as in Labrador West, 5 Wing is not a factor. Prediction: Labrador West: Conservatives, Liberals and NDP will split the vote with some going to the independent candidate. Central (Goose Bay area): Could be close between the Liberals and Conservatives depending on the anger at the Liberals due to the base. NDP will be less of a factor here. Coast: Overwhelmingly Liberal and this is where they will win the by-election overall. The Conservatives and the NDP will hardly be a factor. Overall: Liberals will win Conservatives 2nd NDP 3rd Independent (Ern Condon) 4th Green 5th (not a factor, candidate is not even from Labrador)

This is exactly what people say when they try to scare people from voting for the NDP. But guess what, some of the worst govts. have not been NDP. Case in point, Grant Devine's CONSERVATIVE govt ran 10 straight deficits. Here in Newfoundland we have has a barrage of both Liberal and Conservative governments running deficits since Confederation. And many more Liberal and Conservative govts in all parts of Canada have in the past ran deficits. Let's face it. This is how Liberals and Conservatives have always tried to scare people into not voting NDP. And the sad thing is that many people have fallen for this deception. If a NDP govt was in power nationally for 10 years and ran a deficit for 1, opponents would bring up the one year deficit and not mention 9 years of surplus. The only way the NDP will ever stop their opponents from saying this would be to out-conservative the Conservatives. Of course, if they ever did this, they wouldn't be the NDP anymore.

If Quebec ever separates, it will not be an easy process but a very ugly one. The impact won't be so much on Ontario west but on the Atlantic provinces. They would be cut off from the rest of Canada would be impacted very negatively. In Newfoundland alone I can see a lot of problems. First, it's no secret that Quebec covets Labrador and would go after it, if it became a separate country. This could rile up Newfoundlanders and Canadians as a whole. Newfoundland might try to null and void the horrible contract it signed with Quebec involving Churchill Falls saying that it had a deal with a province of Canada, not an independant country. The fishing rights could be changed dramatically as many Quebec fishermen would be cut off to many of the fish stocks they now have as much of the quota would be given to Canadian fishermen. And who knows what would happen with shipping tariffs and employment (such as Quebecois working in Canada and vice-versa) as well as many of the economic nightmares that have already mentioned and so on and so on. In addition, many of the native people in Northern Quebec have no desire to be part of the country of Quebec but would want to stay in Canada. This could result in a major court challenge and anomosity on both sides. So to those separtists who say there would be little impact (as well as some columnists, especially in western Canada) who also say this, I would disagree wholeheartedly.