The Level of Debate Here

[gerryhatrick]

I never said that. But if I want to express my amusement at religious fanatics who dress in costumes and run around with swords I feel free to do so.

Oh, NOW that you're being called for it you QUALIFY it further.

You never said "fanatics" before either. Or that they were running around with "swords", just kirpans.

In actuality, you called my nieghbour who wears robe-like clothes (not a costume) a "goat-herder".

He's not a fanatic, and nothing I said would give you that impression.

You fail to realize that calling Sikhs "goat herders" is insulting from a cultural standpoint, which makes it racist.

[uOttawaMan]

During the last couple of months, while Greg has been busy with the impending and then birth of his first child, the level of debate and maturity here at Maple has dropped steadily, to the point where direct personal insults and obscenities are being regularly hurled back and forth. I admit to having been provoked into responding somewhat in kind, but I have to say I'm tired of it. If people can't control themselves any better it might be neccessary to start reporting these kinds of posts to the moderator rather than responding in kind.

I think you're right. We should start by not calling Sikhs "goat herding terrorists." No?

I never said that. But if I want to express my amusement at religious fanatics who dress in costumes and run around with swords I feel free to do so.

I'm sorry, but the only thing i can do here , is "lol" at the ignorance.

[Army Guy]

Argus:

Feeling contempt towards the world is not against the rules. Feeling contempt towards individuals is not against the rules. Expessing direct insults towards people is - and yes, I don't deny I've been guilty of it from time to time, as well. I am, after all, so much above you on the scale of evolution.

Your feelings of contempt add so much to the discussions, as do your insults. In fact they actually drive home your piont . What can i say Argus your an intellectual Giant.

I'am quite happy with my station in life and my postion on the scale of evolution, are you?

[Argus]

I never said that. But if I want to express my amusement at religious fanatics who dress in costumes and run around with swords I feel free to do so.

Oh, NOW that you're being called for it you QUALIFY it further.

You never said "fanatics" before either. Or that they were running around with "swords", just kirpans.

In actuality, you called my nieghbour who wears robe-like clothes (not a costume) a "goat-herder".

He's not a fanatic, and nothing I said would give you that impression.

If someone routinely wears wierd costumes around because of his religious zeal then he's a fanatic. And virtually all such people are from third-world rat holes. There's nothing racist in saying that. Maybe if you ever get a decent grasp on language you'll have a better chance of not being walked on during arguments around here.

You fail to realize that calling Sikhs "goat herders" is insulting from a cultural standpoint, which makes it racist.

Again, you don't understand what the word means. You're simply regurgitating the politically correct mental mush you have been fed because your mind never opened up enough to consider life's complexities.

[BubberMiley]

Aah, that's better. Off the meds again I guess.

[August1991]

I think Argus has a point (although Argus surely doesn't need any defence).

We wear different clothes for many different reasons, including because that's the way our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents dressed.

One reason North America is so successful is because individuals are free to choose - to do things differently from the ways of tradition.

When we speak of people "integrating" into North American society, what we really mean is individuals exercising their freedom to choose. Let's revisit this issue in a generation or two.

[Argus]

But your post title is about "The Level of Debate," not about "Flagrant Rule-Breaking." In terms of name-calling, I don't see a lot of that around here. There are the usual Liberals are this/Conservatives are that/NDP should be exterminated arguments, but most of that is just residue from the election. In terms of a low level of debate, I think the main problem is the contempt you are suddenly (in an almost bipolar way) defending.

Hey, creatively expressing my contempt for the idiots I'm discussing politics with - as opposed to just calling them idiots - is one of the more interesting aspects of life here. That's why I find it more boring when I can just call them morons and be done with.

[PocketRocket]

I have all but stopped posting here, largely for the reasons given in this thread.

And even in a thread that calls for people to cut down on personal barbs we see the same sort of behaviour, albeit toned down somewhat.

It's getting to be like a bloody schoolyard around here.

What is it about the simple phrase "Don't get personal, and don't cast insults" that some people cannot understand???

Bottom line; if you cannot debate the issue without resorting to that kind of behaviour, then you're simply proving that you haven't a leg to stand on.

[uOttawaMan]

I never said that. But if I want to express my amusement at religious fanatics who dress in costumes and run around with swords I feel free to do so.

Oh, NOW that you're being called for it you QUALIFY it further.

You never said "fanatics" before either. Or that they were running around with "swords", just kirpans.

In actuality, you called my nieghbour who wears robe-like clothes (not a costume) a "goat-herder".

He's not a fanatic, and nothing I said would give you that impression.

If someone routinely wears wierd costumes around because of his religious zeal then he's a fanatic. And virtually all such people are from third-world rat holes. There's nothing racist in saying that. Maybe if you ever get a decent grasp on language you'll have a better chance of not being walked on during arguments around here.

You fail to realize that calling Sikhs "goat herders" is insulting from a cultural standpoint, which makes it racist.

Again, you don't understand what the word means. You're simply regurgitating the politically correct mental mush you have been fed because your mind never opened up enough to consider life's complexities.

So your saying Sikh members of parliament are "goat herders " too, just because the are Sikh? And how does being bigoted make life complex? If anything it's simplifying your life because you a breaking things down into stereotypical classes, without having to actually get to know the people or issue you are addressing.

[cybercoma]

I think Argus has a point (although Argus surely doesn't need any defence).

We wear different clothes for many different reasons, including because that's the way our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents dressed.

One reason North America is so successful is because individuals are free to choose - to do things differently from the ways of tradition.

When we speak of people "integrating" into North American society, what we really mean is individuals exercising their freedom to choose. Let's revisit this issue in a generation or two.

Free to choose the apparel their religion asks of them?

[Black Dog]

Again, you don't understand what the word means. You're simply regurgitating the politically correct mental mush you have been fed because your mind never opened up enough to consider life's complexities.

Ah, the rich tapestry of assholedom...

[wellandboy]

The level of debate in this thread has fallen into the abyss.

[Argus]

So your saying Sikh members of parliament are "goat herders " too, just because the are Sikh?

I only ever knew one Sikh personally. His name was Dave Sing. He had short hair, and if he had a kirpan in his jeans he didn't advertise it. He was born here. I don't consider him a goat herder.

On the other hand, that mob of bearded loonies waving swords and screaming and beating at each other in a temple in BC over whether there should be chairs - yeah, goat herders.

[Argus]

Again, you don't understand what the word means. You're simply regurgitating the politically correct mental mush you have been fed because your mind never opened up enough to consider life's complexities.

Ah, the rich tapestry of assholedom...

And you, the master weaver, in dull brown colours...

[August1991]

And you, the master weaver, in dull brown colours...

Is brown a traditional colour, or simply an earth-tone... Yet clothes are sewn while cloth is weaved.

Is such refined debate on the level?

[August1991]

I only ever knew one Sikh personally. His name was Dave Sing. He had short hair, and if he had a kirpan in his jeans he didn't advertise it. He was born here. I don't consider him a goat herder.

Similar situation here. I knew a Sikh named Ralphie. His Mum spoke Punjabi to him but he answered in English. No beard, no turban and no knife I ever saw. He did an MBA in the US and the last I heard, he avoided a jail sentence but lost his job. BTW, "Kaur" - the traditional middle name of Sikh women - means, I believe, Princess.

[gerryhatrick]

If someone routinely wears wierd costumes around because of his religious zeal then he's a fanatic. And virtually all such people are from third-world rat holes. There's nothing racist in saying that.

Well, it's either stunning ignorance or racism. You fill in the blanks.

There's nothing "wierd" about the CLOTHES I see Sikhs wearing. They are clothes, not costumes.

The disdain you have for Sikhs is obvious, and you seem proud of it. Like another poster said, we'll have to revisit this issue in a generation or two once certain attitudes have died off with the holders.

[Argus]

If someone routinely wears wierd costumes around because of his religious zeal then he's a fanatic. And virtually all such people are from third-world rat holes. There's nothing racist in saying that.

Well, it's either stunning ignorance or racism. You fill in the blanks.

There's nothing "wierd" about the CLOTHES I see Sikhs wearing. They are clothes, not costumes.

The disdain you have for Sikhs is obvious, and you seem proud of it. Like another poster said, we'll have to revisit this issue in a generation or two once certain attitudes have died off with the holders.

Your belief that disdain for bizarre costumes is somehow attached to "old" people, is as quaint and silly as your belief you somehow represent the mainstream. Most of the people I work with are in their early twenties, and university educated white collar workers, and their contempt for weird costumes and religious zealots probably exceeds my own. They're just more polite about their disdain around strangers.

[Drea]

I only ever knew one Sikh personally. His name was Dave Sing. He had short hair, and if he had a kirpan in his jeans he didn't advertise it. He was born here. I don't consider him a goat herder.

.

OMG where do you live?

BTW, I love the women's clothes. I love the sari and wish I didn't look like a fool wearing one. My Sikh g/friend dressed me all up in her eyeliner, sari and gold jewellry. As a blonde I guess I'm just not "exotic" looking enough to pull it off. LOL

What an awesome family they are (my g/friend's). I was working for them in their home office and they kept bringing me food, wonderful food I'd never tried before. And ginger tea, mmmmm....

Her father, a strict Sikh, was a very kind and knowledgeable man. I have nothing but respect for him.

[Argus]

I only ever knew one Sikh personally. His name was Dave Sing. He had short hair, and if he had a kirpan in his jeans he didn't advertise it. He was born here. I don't consider him a goat herder.

.

OMG where do you live?

BTW, I love the women's clothes. I love the sari and wish I didn't look like a fool wearing one. My Sikh g/friend dressed me all up in her eyeliner, sari and gold jewellry. As a blonde I guess I'm just not "exotic" looking enough to pull it off. LOL

What an awesome family they are (my g/friend's). I was working for them in their home office and they kept bringing me food, wonderful food I'd never tried before. And ginger tea, mmmmm....

Her father, a strict Sikh, was a very kind and knowledgeable man. I have nothing but respect for him.

Swell. I'm glad you have such quaint museum pieces as friends. Maybe you can adopt a canibal in a grass skirt and marvel over his skill with creating stone arrowheads or something. I hope your girflriend isn't set on fire, too, when the in-laws her family chooses for her decide they should get a bigger fridge or something than the dowry allows for. Of course, she could just marry some useless white guy - as long as they keep a close eye on dear old dad so he doesn't stick his kirpan into her chest for dishonouring the family.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Swell. I'm glad you have such quaint museum pieces as friends. Maybe you can adopt a canibal in a grass skirt and marvel over his skill with creating stone arrowheads or something. I hope your girflriend isn't set on fire, too, when the in-laws her family chooses for her decide they should get a bigger fridge or something than the dowry allows for. Of course, she could just marry some useless white guy - as long as they keep a close eye on dear old dad so he doesn't stick his kirpan into her chest for dishonouring the family.

Wow Argus, you've outdone yourself.

[BubberMiley]

So when you started this thread, you were just trying to pretend your intentions were noble so the moderator would take a little longer in banning your ass?

[uOttawaMan]

The more I read Argus, the more I lol.

[BubberMiley]

He is good to laugh at. And I guess he would whine that Drea was clearly provoking him with that story. Maybe he'll complain about that post to the moderator.

[Argus]

So when you started this thread, you were just trying to pretend your intentions were noble so the moderator would take a little longer in banning your ass?

On the contrary, my intentions are entirely selfish. I prefer more of a challenge in debates than I'm presently getting. There are far too many witless children who have crept in who think intellectual debate consists of coming up with the most cliche'd insult. It's boring. I require better entertainment. I would thus like to improve the calibire of my opponents.