"Death to Canada!"

[AndrewL]

Empires, such as the Roman, Turk Ottoman, British, etc... The Romans conquered their known world, they invaded and subjugated people. They used "local talent" at times to rule, but Rome called the shots. The wealth and riches of these lands were used to increase Rome’s wealth. Same with the British, they colonized the world, thank God, and exported the wealth of their colonies to England.

Why did they do this though? What goals and aspirations were they trying to achieve? You just described how they went about being an empire, you did not tell me what an empire actually is and why they exist. Again, what is an empire?

Here is something i found:

An empire exists when one

nation, tribe or society exercises

long-term domination over one or

more external nations, tribes or

societies. Through that domination

the imperial power, or empire, is

able to determine many of the key

political, social, economic and

cultural outcomes in the dominated

society or societies. And that is the

critical point---the ability of the

empire to determine what happens,

the outcomes in the societies under

its control---is what distinguishes an

empire from other forms of political

organization. Those who hold

power at the centre of an empire

typically derive economic benefits,

access to important resources,

control of militarily strategic

territory, and other forms of power

as a consequence of imperial

arrangements.

http://www.jameslaxer.com/empirechapter.pdf

Given that definition which i think is pretty straight forward it seems as though america really is an empire of sorts.. don't you agree?

It was not right then, it is not right now, but what is done is done.

If its not right than why did you thank 'god' for it?

No, there are no empires today, sorry!! The Americans, because that is the example that everybody likes to use is not an empire, they are not imperialist. They have a free market economy, they are interested in buying from and selling too the world. They do not exploit people in the Middle East. They spend BILLIONS of dollars on oil from countries such as Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait etc... These are extremely rich nations. Nations such as Yemen, Syria etc have nothing to offer the free market world, so they are undeveloped. That's not the USA's or anyone else's fault. The US has the most powerful military in the world; if they chose to unleash it nobody could stop them. They do not NATO or the UN. That being said, if they were imperialist as the British/Romans were they could just take the oil, and not pay for it and destroy anyone who opposes them. Saudi, Qatar etc would not be rich nations. In short, imperialists do not pay for resources & products, they take them!!!

How do you view the role between corporations and governments in places like Myanmar, Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Latin America, I.... etc... Saudi Arabia you say is a rich nation but why do the people live in poverty? What is the role that corporations play in exploiting the 'colonies'; what is the role that governments play in protecting the corporations from angry natives and villagers; what is the role that modern economic institutions play in making sure the 'right people' see most of the money and benefits?

The Americans are not exploiting Afghanistan, this place does not really have anything to offer the free market world at this time, and we are here to help them.

That is exactly what all empires tell themselves. There is always a sense of salvation amongst imperialists - originating with the Abrahamic tradition. That still is true today.

I choose to look at the positives, not live my life in the negative, feeling sorry for myself and pointing out every fault with my country, society and way of life. I like western society & culture, so does most of the world. Nobody is lined up to immigrate to Iran or Venezuela, and the socialist utopia needed a wall to keep people in!!!

If it makes you happier to fabricate your own sunny and warm realities about the way the world works - so that it doesn't bring you down - than that is your choice. It does not make it true though. Its also worth noting that life is ususally always better the closer one is to the center of the empire - only until the empire begins to crumble. Then the violence abroad and the repression at home begin to get nastier and nastier.

Andrew

Edited September 27, 2007 by AndrewL

[AndrewL]

You have a logic problem. B does not follow A

I think you can agree that Canadians do not want street crime. Yet after years and years street crime still exists.

Apparently you have a problem recognizing that we have very little street crime in Canada. I think you would agree that because most Canadians do not want street crime, we actually have a fairly low rate of street crime. This can partly be explained by the fact that most Canadians are not partaking in street crime because they do not want street crime....

Can you honestly say that after 5 years NATO has won the hearts and minds of Afghanis - or are they losing them? I think they probably will end up hating NATO and its members as much as they hate the taliban. Such is they way these things always go.

Lets put it another way. The will of the Afgan people is being thwarted by war lords and the Taliban. It has been for qalmost 20 years since the Soviet occupation and before that, 100 years.

How do you know what the will of the Afghan people is? I assume its the same as anybody else's - that is to be left alone, to be free of interference from foreigners; be it the Soviets, be it the British, Pakistan, the Taliban, the US, Saudi Arabia, or NATO...... Is there actually any credible polling done that shows the majority of Afghans want a foreign military presence of any type in their country? Does anybody actually talk to the villagers before they kill them?

There is no reason to believe that the situation would change in only 5 years. How long did it take to destroy the Shining Path?

You mean the resurgent shining path that bombed a market in Peru a few months back? I suspect they are resurgent because the conditions that lead to the rise of internal conflicts and insurgencies still exist - which is mainly foreign interference in all its oppressive and exploitive forms.

Andrew

Edited September 27, 2007 by AndrewL

[shavluk]

Tbud

I must ask the question of just why were these people killed? Were they in some way attacking the soldiers or standing in the way of soldiers who were trying to get at Taliban for instance. As this article noted that the place where this happened was a noted hot bed for insugent sympathiser's. So if we use our own intelligence to think about this, it would seem obvious that things are not at all what they seem. I would find it very disturbing to think that Nato would attack a village without cause or intell, to warrant such action. So where is the other side to this story? Why post this onesided and inflamatory story, unless you are just doing so to raise shit here in the forums. Since you and it seems your friiend, seem to have taken the idea that we are all in need of your wisdom, I then take it that you are 100% opposed to the war and all it entails. Even if it does bring about something good. We welcome honest disscussion of opposing views, but please leave the animosity out of it.

It is very rude of you to just come and decide that you know better then all the other members and think you will somehow convert them into your narrow minded view of things. I hope you can fit in here, and by that I do not mean you have to be like the rest in your views but rather be like the rest in behaving in a calm and openminded way.

my response to Afghanistan

I would have them (our Canadian military) stay and then I would tell the Afghans that Canada will start buying poppies from all farmers who register with us and put away their guns.

Hillier would be shelved and all personnel given Blue berets like they used to wear.

I would also promise the Afghans to use our forces, if need be, only to stop any other country or multinational corporation from building a natural gas pipeline through their country with out a negotiated fee structure.

I would also turn back the tanks(Hillier's toys for small minded little boys) that we don't need and buy road building equipment and the equipment needed for things like schools and hospitals.

I would use the other 80% for rebuilding the country.

It will be this way when it is finally over and it will be shown that all of our brave boys deaths have been a waste.

I am ex-Canadian army , just in case some of you think me not versed in death and what is really going on over there.

[Wilber]

the british colonized the world, "thank god". lets ask the people of india about it. lets ask native canadians about it. lets ask africans, black americans of slave descent, about it. even afghanistan in the 1800's. thank your god

Let's look at India. Certainly British interests there were mercenary, racist , self serving and they made a lot of money out of the place. However, before they arrived there was no such thing as India, the area consisted of a disintegrating Mogul Empire and a bunch of principalities. The Brits left the worlds largest democracy with the worlds largest rail system and a mostly honest and efficient civil service to run the place. In short, India as we know it would not exist today.

Slavery was an accepted institution at one time. Africans enslaved each other, it was not an invention of western imperialists but like most things at the time, they did it better than anyone else. They were also the first to abolish it.

This is not an argument for imperialism but not all of its effects have been bad, so in some respects, yes thank god, for if it hadn't happened, we wouldn't have this country or this forum to express our views because it is largely the British influence of the 16th through 19th centuries that formed the western world and its democratic institutions as we know them.

[old_bold&cold]

If you are ex-army then tell me just how all this building that you want to take place can be done when the insurgents will blowup what you build today very firsxt time they can. What you describe is what Canada plans to do, but first they need the country to be safe enough for these infastructures to be built. It can not do this from a peacekeeping only position.

I can not really take what you say seriously, if you have been there and know first hand what happens to the building efforts in the southern provinces, when they are attempted. The tanks you say are just toys, save Canadian lives and that is another thing I have to question about your statements. I wonder when you say ex-army, do you mean Taliban, because what you say to do would only help their cause in the end.

[Army Guy]

Tbub:

Your a busy guy, causing quit a stir, which is good for the forum,

-I think you'll find most on this board very open minded and willing to learn from both sides of the argument.

then perhaps i have not met them yet...

Maybe you should examine your own posts # 3, 11, 14 and 30 some of your comments

i know, its a pit of snakes in forums like this and there is no victory, on any side, but its all just silly noise. propaganda

And my personal favorite :"especially in this cess pool of a forum, amongst the likes of people like you."

Most people like it here, and are fond of this forum, and an attack on the forum is an attack on all of us. This being a intra net forum one of many, it is you that have chosen "our forum" to piss in our pool and then demand respect like your some demi god from the forums above....

well by your glib acceptance of status quo with the empire, and being an "army guy" its pretty simple to connect the dots here.

Fair enough, much like i connected the dots, NDP to cape and tights...

i am totally against the concept of blindly following orders of the "commander". because i know the commander is just another dumb shit too, and after thousands of years of making the same mistakes over and over again, the next generation is ready to follow the leaders orders, which are given from the back of the line.

Here's a bold statement, well i don't mean to burst your bubble but so is the military again'st blindly following orders, in fact it forms a lage part of military law, laws set out in the genva convention, and inter national law as well, but you already knew that. I take it from the rest of the quote you are refering to mans need to prove himself on the battlefield,and us as a race not learning a damn thing with the exception on how to do it better, faster, and quicker.

you know what insanity is, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. the war in afghan fits this description

War is an insane undertaking, but there are times when it needs to be done, someone needs take thier head out of the sand and say enough, and put those words into action. Much like we did in the second world war. and different results are achievable some good and some bad. I guess that helping out the people of Afgan to attain some of the rights we are taking advantage of right now is to much for you. The left is full of excuses Can't be done, russians could not do it niether can we, Afgan , taliban are no threat to us, we'll make ourselfs a target....I'm glad our fore fathers did not think that way, perhaps we would be goose steppingright now.

so i prefer to be outside the box, to ask for a different solution than the same old tired methods

You may think that your outside the box, but don't kid yourself, history is full of examples of meek and peaceable, lets talk first countries, most where crushed under someones boots. I don't condone aggresive military actions, but everyone must be willing to fight for what the enjoy, if not that nation is living on borrowed time.

who protects the rights of the citizens? no one. certainly not the troops, lets get over the illusion

Come on this is Canada not mother Russia. you make it sound like were all hidding in your closet waiting to pounce and strip you of what you have....thats not an illusion but disillusioned. Lets not forget that our military is made up of Canadian citizens, from across the country, not some storm troopers off a Star wars movie. your rights have been fought for and perserved by those people, ordinary regular Canadians...

now what do you have to say, besides trying to make me look silly with the continued cape references? not much

besides asking me for my 'credentials'? not much

You may not think credentials are important, but do you attend any lectures without knowing something about the speaker, back grounds often dictate the speakers knowledge of certain topics. But hey thats your choice, and i will assume nothing.

mean about the topic, since you have such a need to debate

Well thats what we do here, we debate , learn from each other, see both sides of the debate , right or wrong...it's all about learning something, i can only speak for myself. But it was not me whom used your approached , kick the door in and yell all your cess pool conseratives out of the pool, that was you....

to justify in your mind whats being done

amongst my comments i do throw out somel ideas about what i think is really going on

i have heard nothing useful yet from you, besides ridicule and tainted questions

I don't have to justify anything in my mind, i've completed two tours in Afgan with the Infantry. I know exactly what i was doing, what i was accomplishing and whom i was helping. i knew before going over, when i volunteered for a second tour and soon a third tour. Not because i like combat, or the "rush", but because i think that Canada is offering these people a gift that they want most peace, a way to stop the continueous combat that has plagued this country for 30 plus years. And the only people standing in the way of millions enjoying those freedoms are a couple thousand extremists....and it is my job to hunt these cruel heartless scumbags down and exterminate them. It's a job i do not because i like it, but because it needs to be done. And like it or not i do it all under the Canadian flag, our flag, both yours and mine.

[shavluk]

Are you familiar with the opiate problem in Turkey that was settled by licensing the farmers in 1972?

This war is a complete waste of lives and money.

They live in a opium economy as children buy a cola with one gram as cash , that's the facts.

This is about a sane view and your wrong plain and simple.

The Taliban and the farmers are the same people.

63 Canadians dead in the last 2 years for nothing

probably more than 700 amputees for nothing

thousands dead for nothing

so what you say like they didn't matter?

ok how many more do you think will be killed before what i say will happen ,,happens?

i say again its kind of poetic that we have Canadian soldiers being forced to quietly die by"" laying down in fields of poppies"",,,, again

i had given this same scenario to layton and steven lewis personally in Quebec city September 7 2006 !

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: Sell Afghan poppies for medicine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ndp were the first to be given this strategy and now have lost it.

I spoke to Steven Lewis and many others in Quebec city about it.

I believe they dropped the ball badly here.

The GREENS and now the liberals are on board , maybe if we make sure the Afghans don't have ATM charges Jack will now pipe up.

Sell Afghan poppies for medicine: Dion

Dion wants Ottawa to back pilot project to turn opium into medicinal painkillers

Feb 23, 2007 04:30 AM bruce campion-smith

ottawa bureau

OTTAWA–Canada should back a pilot project to market Afghanistan's opium production – blamed for fuelling a deadly insurgency – as legal medicinal painkillers, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion says.

In a major foreign policy speech yesterday, Dion called for a new strategy for the Afghan mission to put a greater focus on diplomacy and development.

And one key plank is a plan to cope with the country's poppy crop, which has become a mainstay of the economy.

"If we do not start to think creatively about the problem of the drug economy, the situation will never get better," Dion said in a text of his Montreal speech.

Dion said Canada should help fund a project proposed by the Senlis Council, an international security and development policy think-tank, to license poppy crops for use as codeine and morphine in the developing world.

"Such a licensed cultivation would ... offer farmers a real and profitable alternative to the heroin trade," he said.

Dion, who also urged a crackdown on illegal processing labs, later conceded the drug strategy is not a sure bet.

"I know it is very risky what they are proposing. I am not naive. But what is not risky in Afghanistan? We need to try this risk and see the result," Dion said in an interview after his noon-hour speech.

During an Ottawa visit last September, Afghan President Hamid Karzai warned that the "menace" of narcotics was as serious a threat as terrorism and could undermine the country's economic progress.

"If we do not destroy poppies in Afghanistan, poppies will destroy us," Karzai said.

Current efforts to eradicate the poppy crop have been controversial since destitute farmers are often left with no income to support their families.

In addition to tackling the drug trade, Dion said Canada must do more to ensure Afghans get necessary vaccinations. And he said the country needs help to rebuild irrigation networks destroyed in decades of violence.

In his speech, Dion said a Liberal government would withdraw Canada's 2,500 troops from Kandahar in 2009, but left the door open for soldiers to go elsewhere in the country.

"I will say unequivocally that a Liberal government led by me will not extend Canada's combat mission in Kandahar beyond February 2009," Dion said.

"We need a new government that will be able to say very clearly `Yes, we end the mission in 2009 ... help us in the meantime and we need a country to replace us because we are serious,'" he said in the interview.

The federal Conservatives have yet to say what Canada's role might be in Afghanistan after the current military commitment ends in February 2009.

Noting that just 20 per cent of Canada's aid funding is being spent in Kandahar, Dion said a Liberal government would push for a "real effort to win the hearts and minds of Afghans.

"It is very difficult to keep the confidence of the population if they don't identify the Canadian forces with improvement for the quality of life," he said.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/184984

[AngusThermopyle]

I am ex-Canadian army , just in case some of you think me not versed in death and what is really going on over there.

That is not always a reliable indicator of these matters. for instance we have a guy at work here who claims the same thing. Strictly speaking he's correct, after delving a little deeper I discovered he did a year and a half then was kicked out as an administrative burden. No deployments and barely trained. So as you can see just being ex military does not necessarily confer legitimacy.

As to the Afghanistan situation, well, thats a bit of a conundrum isn't it.

On the one hand no sane person wants to see people killed. On the other though, can we leave and allow the Taliban to freely set up shop there? I don't think we can. Before any coalition troops were ever feet down on the ground, Afghanistan was a base for the terrorists to do as they pleased. The alternative of helping the Afghani's set up their own democratically based government would appear to be the far better solution. These things take time though, you cant expect it to happen over night, or even within five years.

[Army Guy]

shavluk:

Hillier would be shelved and all personnel given Blue berets like they used to wear.

I really hate possers, i mean they really do a disservice to those that have served and to those that are serving. And right now i really think your a posser...

When did all the Canadian forces wear blue berets ?

I would also turn back the tanks(Hillier's toys for small minded little boys) that we don't need and buy road building equipment and the equipment needed for things like schools and hospitals.

I would use the other 80% for rebuilding the country

No, we don't need tanks, in fact we don't need those big bad army guys at all, just a few construction guys some heavy equipment and we'll be set...one question though what do we do when the taliban have your construction guys bent over thier graders screaming thier heads off while they are slowly being hack off with a dull knife...whats your plan then ? flowers, group hugs more talks with Jack.

It will be this way when it is finally over and it will be shown that all of our brave boys deaths have been a waste.

Have you served in Afgan, if not who are you to call thier sacrafice a waste. Last i recalled our military was voluteer was it not, these soldiers chose this way of life, they chose to voluteer to serve in Afgan, they knew the risk and have paid for that choice in full. Don't dishonor there sacrafice by calling it a waste...i don't give a rats ass if you don't believe in our military, or the mission. But don't dishonor our dead, that sir is over the line.

I am ex-Canadian army , just in case some of you think me not versed in death and what is really going on over there

I know lots of guys in the army, whom are not "versed in death" what unit did you serve in. and when did you get out.

[ScottSA]

taliban?

lets ask the dead civilians what they think

It's one thing to allow emotion to color one's perceptions, but quite another to simply throw rationality out the window and embrace emotion in great heaving spasms of angst. Especially when it's fake, politically motivated angst. What a ridiculous position...let's try it in a different context:

"Cars are bad."

"No they're not."

"Oh yeah? Just ask all the people who died in traffic accidents."

You see how dumb, entirely irrational, and ridiculous it is to use that silly rationale? I'm embarrassed for you. Go get some school larnin'. That way you'll know that Afghanistan has NOT been, in fact, in a state of war since 1850. I sincerely doubt you have the slightest idea what is happening in Afghanistan or why we're there, and you've probably forgotten where you put the bong.

[ScottSA]

"versed in death." I love it. Never met a vet who was in the carpool or behind a desk...they all seemed to have been standing tall beside Sgt Fury gnawing on the enemy's head, picking their teeth with his shinbones, and versing in death.

Edited September 27, 2007 by ScottSA

[AngusThermopyle]

I know lots of guys in the army, whom are not "versed in death" what unit did you serve in. and when did you get out.

Damn good question, but it may be possible you wont get an answer to it.

[shavluk]

Your entertainment is not my concern and it is only you belittling our brave servicemen deaths.

They die needlessly , that's why it is a waste.

There are alternatives.

The blue beret is a UN designation we wore for almost 30 years as we were always peace keepers first and foremost.

I am a combat arms trained regimental marksmen from 2 RCHA

I have my veterans plate because of my honorable discharge.

What was your service to Canada????????

What regiment were you in Sgt Rock?

[AngusThermopyle]

as we were always peace keepers first and foremost.

A seriously fallacious statement. There is no such thing as "peace keeping" it's merely a Liberal feel good term.

If you have peace it doesn't need to be kept, it just is. If you don't have peace you obviously cant keep it. In that case you need to make it.

[trex]

Maybe you should examine your own posts # 3, 11, 14 and 30 some of your comments

ok,

#3 was in response to a post that wants to ridicule people from other culture as stupid, and flips off the impact of war as a mere joke. in other words, sniper wants to be funny for his college friends. but no serious harm done.

# 11, i see no problem there talking to shavluk. i see personal attacks rampant. i'd much rather discuss thetopic material. a little light heartedness is fine but anyone who attacks me, will get attacked in kind. i'm sure you can understand that. show me where i am rude to someone who is not, first, personally rude to me.

#14 i am attacked as "mockingly writing this way" in reference to my comment mein freunds, and called a communist ideology. I did not insult this person implicitly. when i say "the likes of you", i mean, people who want to change the subject, or put words in my mouth. i am told that i should not post. i am told to go smoke a doobie, again a personal attack that is irrelevant to the post.

#30, whats the problem-

QUOTE(Army Guy @ Sep 27 2007, 08:06 AM)

"Tbud:

Is this how you debate, you throw a topic out there and we have to pull the your postion out of you...

This is a new concept ?"

what topic, what debate... you really think i will change your mind, or you mine... such arguments are a waste of time and bandwidth

"Sounds like the history of mankind, is that your only bitch..."

therefore you agree and you dont mind seeing soldiers and civilians perish for said reasons. so no debate there... but for your obvious indifference and possibly even support of continued injustice

"... the history of mankind, is that your only bitch?"

in other words, so what. thats cold bro. real cold. i see no problem in my response. you know you are fighting for the rich people. i hope you are doijng good things but if you are told to do the bad things, you have to do them. lets hope you dnt come back as traumatized, as the us soldiers in iraq. killing anonymous persons for the state canhave the effect, but only if you have a conscience.

i will not back down from any cyber-bullying, right from the get go.

ok, can we continue aside from the noise, shock and awe. and no i do not wish to inspire "awe", but if you respectfully communicate to me, i have no problem with you. otherwise, we will have a problem.

and now that we have established that fact, we can move on.

----------------------

"laws set out in the genva convention, and inter national law as well, "

interesting point which is mostly theoretical. I can also disagree with my employer when they do something unethical, and expect some kind of "whistle-blower" protection. but reality is, employers have long memories, and powerful friends. and today, the laws of geneva convention are rendered obsolete, as accomplished by our friends the us administration who have broken the rules but proved that empire establishes what is right, not common law. when its fit to break the law and ignore it, empire does so. and all the good citizens simply close their eyes, and wave their flags. so unfortunately today, we have some real big problems here. including the unlawful detentions and interrogation.

of course, its not canada directly but consider what it means n the eyes of people around the worls, who see canada and us are joined at the hip. where the dog goes the tail must follow.

"Much like we did in the second world war. and different results are achievable "

to make that comparison, is utterly unfair as we are not under a threat, afghanis are not invading anyone else.

YES their regime under taliban is brutal. YES we must do something to help them. But we are walking such a fine line here with this intervention, knowing the methods of guerilla warfare they will resort to, put their own people in the fire to win the psychological war. that the people are beginning to hate us now is evidence of this, and IS THE MAIN REASON I CREATED THIS THREAD. Canadians should know what the people think of us. EVEN THOUGH in this case it was not canadian troops, apparently but we are talking about psychological warfare, not truth

some may call it trivial, scant evidence but there are other indicators as well. unfortunately since all people want to do is be silly, this hasn't been discussed further

"history is full of examples of meek and peaceable, lets talk first countries, most where crushed under someones boots. I don't condone aggresive military actions, but everyone must be willing to fight for what the enjoy"

i agree in principle because, extremists have their own agenda. but there are many ways to avoid a direct fight besides simply rolling over and taking it. i dont consider myself "meek". peaceable yes but not "meek". i use my intelligence to avoid violence, but when necessary do what i must to survive.

secondly any rush to war must be questioned, and the effectiveness of the war must always be questioned, because in war its the smallest and most vulnerable who are forgotten. we dont want the wheels of war to run over people indiscriminantly. no one keeps statistics of the innocent dead in a war. dead men tell no tales

"Come on this is Canada not mother Russia. "

never mind russia. the united states has been in a state of near perpetual war, military action non-stop since the 1950s. Its possible that more people have been killed by the us military and its appendages since WWII, than any other country. including russia. and i for one would really hate to see canada join the military-industrial complex that feeds their economy. that is not our way, but becoming so more and more it seems. and now this pro-us government including the liberals before harper, all backed by big business and their demands. 14 billion dollar surplus every year goes to the banks, not to feed poor children in this country which are growing in population since 1990, not decreasing. but we ignore those things, we dont usually get to hear about those things. who we elect dont matter, the agenda continues, removal of the social safety net for the benefit of insurance companies, etc. thats what im talkin about. the corporation has the same rights as any citizen, more perhaps, but they never die. if a citizen is a problem, its only a matter of time.

Edited September 27, 2007 by tbud

[bush_cheney2004]

never mind russia. the united states has been in a state of near perpetual war, military action non-stop since the 1950s. Its possible that more people have been killed by the us military and its appendages since WWII, than any other country. including russia. and i for one would really hate to see canada join the military-industrial complex that feeds their economy. that is not our way, but becoming so more and more it seems.

You must be joking....look back the same 50 years at Canada and you will find plenty of "action" and "military industrial complex", from Cold War to Korea to 'Nam to Kosovo and now Afghanistan. Canada did a damn fine job and made a bundle to boot!

Edited September 28, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[shavluk]

I ask all of you ????

What regiment did you serve your country in?

If no one answers again I will assume none of you did.

And any thing else you say will be meaningless after your comments.

[trex]

You must be joking....look back the same 50 years at Canada and you will find plenty of "action" and "military industrial complex", from Cold War to Korea to 'Nam to Kosovo and now Afghanistan. Canada did a damn fine job and made a bundle to boot!

fine, i cannot disagree

[trex]

You must be joking....look back the same 50 years at Canada and you will find plenty of "action" and "military industrial complex", from Cold War to Korea to 'Nam to Kosovo and now Afghanistan. Canada did a damn fine job and made a bundle to boot!

as i said, "more people have been killed by the us military and its appendages since WWII, than any other country."

so there you have it, bc.

Edited September 28, 2007 by tbud

[Wilber]

as i said, "more people have been killed by the us military and its appendages since WWII, than any other country."

so there you have it, bc.

I duno, Pol Pot did pretty well. You just pull this stuff out of your ass.

[trex]

I duno, Pol Pot did pretty well. You just pull this stuff out of your ass.

as you've said, you duno

[kuzadd]

Tbud,

We are in the 21st century... There are no such things as empires, do you even know what an empire is??? They do no exist, they are a thing of the past, like communisum!!

Pulling out the references to "Empires & Imperialists" is a bunch of old hack, worn out old leftard nonsense. Rational people don't buy it!!!

no such thing as empire?!

hilarious!

empire and aspirations of empire have never gone away.

Maybe it's just "less obvious" to the some.

BUT, take a good look around, a reality check.

The reality is different then the delusion.

[kuzadd]

tbud' date='Sep 27 2007, 11:15 AM' post='254017']

you see you are just thinking in black and white, as is in vogue these days, stylish

"your either with us, or your with the terrorists" is the modern mantra today.

oh it is the modern mantra, alright.

It's a new spin on some old propaganda.

But that is lost on the simple minded.

"I know two types of law because I know two types of men,

those who are with us and those who are against us."

~ Nazi Hermann Goering, 1936

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

~GWB

it is the language used by an empire, in an expansionist mood.

To get the populace onside.

it's simplistic appeal lies, in it's call to act (stay on the "right" side) and not to REALLY think, about what is ACTUALLY going on.

Edited September 28, 2007 by kuzadd

[Wilber]

as you've said, you duno

And neither do you. Like I said, you just pull this stuff out of your ass.

[AndrewL]

tbud' date='Sep 27 2007, 11:15 AM' post='254017']

you see you are just thinking in black and white, as is in vogue these days, stylish

oh it is the modern mantra, alright.

It's a new spin on some old propaganda.

But that is lost on the simple minded.

"I know two types of law because I know two types of men,

those who are with us and those who are against us."

~ Nazi Hermann Goering, 1936

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

~GWB

it is the language used by an empire, in an expansionist mood.

To get the populace onside.

it's simplistic appeal lies, in it's call to act (stay on the "right" side) and not to REALLY think, about what is ACTUALLY going on.

"He who is not with me is against me..."

--Jesus Christ, in Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23 of the New Testament of Christianity.

This false dilemma goes back probably long before Jesus Christ im sure..... buts it origin is neither modern nor does it originate with Goering. The most classic reference to it is from the bible. Good to see old Georgie is stuck in 1st century moral concepts....

Andrew

Edited September 28, 2007 by AndrewL