Dion's bringing up Khadr.

[jennie]

The USA will hold Khadr for what ever time it takes to make sure the conflict that he was warring in is finished and settled( probably his whole life). If he is released it will be to be returned to the place where he was taken into custody. That will be Afghanistan. Since he is now a man and can if he wanted to educate himself while at Gitmo, but he does not then we have to see him for what he really is, and that is a weapon of terrorism.

To try to institutionalize such a person and think you can remove these belief's as if they were a brain washed ideal, is not only wrong, but is an insult to all those who follow Islam. He would not last long if brought into Canada, and would only end up spending the rest of his life in prison, mostly because he will break our laws by spouting his beliefs, and make terroristic threats, because that is all he knows how to do. His type would not last long in our prison system, and he would be found dead in a relatively short time. It would be much better for him to just expire where he is now. That might happen yet. What we all forget is one thing that may well take all this out of anybodies hands, is the fact that Khadr may well not ask to be returned to Canada, but be returned to say Iran or Iraq, or any of the many arabic countries that may well allow him in. If he were to come back to Canada, he would not be free to roam about, and that would not be his first choice now would it. All Canada would have to do is sign off on his coming here and then the USA would have to send him to where he would like to be. Those who would be so foolish as to think he would even want to come back to Canada, are not looking at what the man himself would want. Coming back here would just be exchanging prisons for him. In Arab sympathizing countries he would walk free.

He will be returned to his own country. Returning him to Afghanistan would be foolish with the war still on, and that is not the way it works anyway.

[M.Dancer]

A procedural error? Explain please.

Okay, there's these things called newspapers and they report events of a common interest......one of those events is an ongoing story involving a terrorist caught in Afghanistan. Since he was not Afghani, and since he was not in uniform openly displaying arms as per the genva convention, he was deemed an unlawful combattant. But when the charges were filed they did not list him as unlawful.

Charges against Omar Khadr were dismissed Monday by a military judge who ruled that his tribunal had no jurisdiction to try the alleged terrorist because the government had failed to designate him an "unlawful enemy combatant.''

"Charges are dismissed with prejudice," Colonel Peter Brownback ruled.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/lofiver....php/t9155.html

NAVAL STATION GUANTANAMO BAY, Cuba, June 4, 2007 – In a decision that could affect the future of the military commission system, the judge in the military commission case of accused terrorist Omar Khadr today dismissed all charges against Khadr and adjourned the hearing.

Halting what was supposed to be a routine arraignment here, Army Col. Peter Brownback, the military judge, dismissed the charges based on a question about the jurisdiction of the military commission regarding the status of enemy combatants. Specifically, the conflict arose because Khadr’s Combatant Status Review Tribunal designated him as an “enemy combatant” and not an “unlawful enemy combatant.”

Brownback argued that the Military Commissions Act of 2006, the law that governs military commissions, requires that a detainee be an unlawful enemy combatant to be tried by commission. The law specifically designates between unlawful enemy combatants and enemy combatants, who fight for a legitimate armed forces.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=46281

[jennie]

Okay, there's these things called newspapers and they report events of a common interest......one of those events is an ongoing story involving a terrorist caught in Afghanistan. Since he was not Afghani, and since he was not in uniform openly displaying arms as per the genva convention, he was deemed an unlawful combattant. But when the charges were filed they did not list him as unlawful.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/lofiver....php/t9155.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=46281

Specifically, the conflict arose because Khadr’s Combatant Status Review Tribunal designated him as an “enemy combatant” and not an “unlawful enemy combatant.”

It seems to me it was not "procedural" but a fact. He had a review of his Combatant Status, they legitimately found he was not an 'unlawful' combatant. As such, he is not subject to the military trial. Pretty clear.

His return should be requested immediately.

[Army Guy]

Jennie:

He will be returned to his own country. Returning him to Afghanistan would be foolish with the war still on, and that is not the way it works anyway.

Why would returning him to Afgan be foolish ?

Specifically, the conflict arose because Khadr’s Combatant Status Review Tribunal designated him as an “enemy combatant” and not an “unlawful enemy combatant.”

As a enemy combatant he is subject to the rules of the genva convention, and can be held as a pow until the conflict is over...where an unlawful enemy combatant is not covered by all the genva convention....Military tribunal's cover many topic's est a combatants status is one, another is to proceed with criminal charges if any, etc, etc,....

What would be the piont of bringing him here to Canada ? we do not have a prison set up for POW's...or are we to throw him in general population ? or is it that you think he will be treated any differently than where he is now? what is your motivation to bring him here to Canada ?

Keep in mind he was a Canadian citizen, that with his family decided to fight along side the taliban, which at the time Canada had declared war on this group...and in doing so this once small boy killed an american soldier in combat, which could have been as easily a Canadian soldier.

[jennie]

Jennie:

Why would returning him to Afgan be foolish ?

As a enemy combatant he is subject to the rules of the genva convention, and can be held as a pow until the conflict is over...where an unlawful enemy combatant is not covered by all the genva convention....Military tribunal's cover many topic's est a combatants status is one, another is to proceed with criminal charges if any, etc, etc,....

What would be the piont of bringing him here to Canada ? we do not have a prison set up for POW's...or are we to throw him in general population ? or is it that you think he will be treated any differently than where he is now? what is your motivation to bring him here to Canada ?

Keep in mind he was a Canadian citizen, that with his family decided to fight along side the taliban, which at the time Canada had declared war on this group...and in doing so this once small boy killed an american soldier in combat, which could have been as easily a Canadian soldier.

No it couldn't. Canada is not engaged in a war of aggression for oil.

Khadr is a Canadian citizen, born here. All other prisoners from allied countries have been returned to their country of origin (Britain, etc.).

The only reason Khadr is still growing up in a cell at Gitmo is because Harper is a racist and won't make a simple request. We all know that.

[M.Dancer]

Specifically, the conflict arose because Khadr’s Combatant Status Review Tribunal designated him as an “enemy combatant” and not an “unlawful enemy combatant.”

It seems to me it was not "procedural" but a fact. He had a review of his Combatant Status, they legitimately found he was not an 'unlawful' combatant. As such, he is not subject to the military trial. Pretty clear.

His return should be requested immediately.

That's not what was written at all. It is as if I just posted an article explaining night and day and how the planet revolved and you instead come to the conclusion that the sun sets.

He was originally labeled an enemy combatant and sent to a court that only had jurisdiction over unlawful combatants, there for the judge had no choice but to dismiss the case. It was an error in the proceedings. They did not review his status and no where will you find such a claim, not even in the oral histories.

But what you are asking, or at least unwittingly asking, is that he stay in prison for ever. Because if he is a POW ( or a simple enemy combatant) POWs are not released until a formal cessation of hostilities.

[ScottSA]

Specifically, the conflict arose because Khadr’s Combatant Status Review Tribunal designated him as an “enemy combatant” and not an “unlawful enemy combatant.”

It seems to me it was not "procedural" but a fact. He had a review of his Combatant Status, they legitimately found he was not an 'unlawful' combatant. As such, he is not subject to the military trial. Pretty clear.

It may be clear to you, but it's not clear to anyone else, including the court involved, who classified it as a procedural error. Or does the Gitmo oral tradition suggest otherwise?

[Army Guy]

No it couldn't. Canada is not engaged in a war of aggression for oil.

You call it what ever you want ....i've done two tours over there, and i'm calling it a war...And what oil are you talking about...

Khadr is a Canadian citizen, born here. All other prisoners from allied countries have been returned to their country of origin (Britain, etc.).

So what, most of these countries already have POW centers established, are you suggesting we build one for young Khadr here, or are you suggesting we throw him in with our criminal elements...

Are you suggesting he is not being treated properly ? why is it you want him in Canada, to be close to mommy, and family...why do we need him here ?

The only reason Khadr is still growing up in a cell at Gitmo is because Harper is a racist and won't make a simple request. We all know that.

Again , why would it be in Canada's best interest to have him here in Canada, that much you have not explained.

And if Harper is a racist, then perhaps alot of Canadians out there are as well.

[capricorn]

The only reason Khadr is still growing up in a cell at Gitmo is because Harper is a racist and won't make a simple request. We all know that.

"We"? Who is "we"?. You certainly don't speak for me.

[M.Dancer]

I for one am quite content to let the American Taxpayer foot his bill. They captured him, he's their to do with what ever they want. I certainly see no public interest in bringing him here.

[old_bold&cold]

Jennie

You keep harping that all the government has to do is make a simple request, as if it is your right to say what the governement should do. But as you can not see because you are blindered by your own sicking beliefs, that the majority of Canadian people do not think your way, otherwise there would be ground pounding support for Khadr release. Do you see anything that resembles that kind of support. No because most people would rather he not return. But lets say you get your way and he does return. He will be probably soon arrested for voicing his terrorist belief's, because as an admitted terrorist it would be simply a matter of law to take those belief's as threats, and rightfully so. His own background makes him unfit to be in Canadian society. There will not be any deprogramming or any physcolodgical support for him. Just prison and probably death by the imates. To me that, is way more degrading, then where he is at now. It would have been kinder if he was shot in combat.

You keep trying to make the war in Afghanistan, not a Canadian war, and technically you are correct it is a NATO war where Canada has the burden of being front line combatants. So you see we really are at war or at least our troops are. I do not think you will find any real support for bringing Khadr home to Canada, and when you say that sending him back to Afghanistan is not how it is done, you are wrong they only will send him back to Canada if we request it and he agrees. He can say any country he wants to go back to and if they will take him, then that is it. He probably would choose a place where he would be able to go free, then return here. He well may choose to go to Afghanistan so he can be a martyr and get his alotted virgins etc.. You keep making decision for this guy and you know nothing about him. You just stick your oar in and think you have a right to say what is best for him. Please do us a favour and show us where Khadr himself has made any requests to come back to Canada? I do not mean requests his family has made, but requests made by himself. He vowed that he would die in the cause of Islam, and because of his upbringing, this will be the most over riding issue he has. So where do you get off with thinking you know what is best for him.

[betsy]

I for one am quite content to let the American Taxpayer foot his bill. They captured him, he's their to do with what ever they want. I certainly see no public interest in bringing him here.

I'm with you on that one, 100%!

[jdobbin]

I for one am quite content to let the American Taxpayer foot his bill. They captured him, he's their to do with what ever they want. I certainly see no public interest in bringing him here.

There may be no public interest in seeing Kahdr returned to Canada but if the U.S closes Guantanamo and he can't be prosecuted in the U.S., he might end up being sent to Canada anyways. The government should have some strategy other one where they say it is "premature to speculate."

The Canadian government should be looking into whether he can be prosecuted in Canada.

[capricorn]

"Terror charges reinstated against Canadian detainee at Guantanamo Bay."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/200...4522665-ap.html

[ScottSA]

"Terror charges reinstated against Canadian detainee at Guantanamo Bay."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/200...4522665-ap.html

There we go...just a tempest in a teapot. I bet this time they dotted the proper "i"s and all that, so we don't have to worry about hugged him at the airport or nicely asking him to put his listening ears on so that we can explain to him that we're all one big happy family here in Canada, except for those unhappy folks at Caledonia who hate whitey and drinkalot, or those prisoners who don't keep manna from heaven instead of bacon, or...but anyway, now he'll he safely rotting in some cell, communing with Allah and plotting the destruction of the Great Satan, or at least its teensy neighbour.

[kimmy]

The only reason Khadr is still growing up in a cell at Gitmo is because Harper is a racist and won't make a simple request. We all know that.

Of course. It has nothing at all with being a member of a terrorist group. It has nothing at all to do with fighting against NATO troops. It's all just because he's an Arab.

It's like how people only hate the Khmer Rouge because they're racist against Asians.

-k

[jennie]

Of course. It has nothing at all with being a member of a terrorist group. It has nothing at all to do with fighting against NATO troops. It's all just because he's an Arab.

It's like how people only hate the Khmer Rouge because they're racist against Asians.

-k

In comparison to other detainees who were repatriated to their countries, I believe Harper is making Canada look pretty cold-hearted ... or cheap ... or both.

[kimmy]

In comparison to other detainees who were repatriated to their countries, I believe Harper is making Canada look pretty cold-hearted ... or cheap ... or both.

Good. He deserves neither sympathy nor largesse.

-k

[jbg]

Why do we have to make a special advance "preparation" for his eventual return - like as if he's some kind of a significant dignitary and not the big embarrassment that he is! Aren't we just giving a tad too much importance to this fellow?

If the shoe were reversed and the Taliban were in charge of Afghanistan, how would a returning "fighter" of Afghani extraction fighting in the Canadian forces be treated. His head would be paraded on a spike.

Maybe Khadr's head should be dribbled the entire length of Yonge Street.

[M.Dancer]

There may be no public interest in seeing Kahdr returned to Canada but if the U.S closes Guantanamo and he can't be prosecuted in the U.S., he might end up being sent to Canada anyways. The government should have some strategy other one where they say it is "premature to speculate."

The Canadian government should be looking into whether he can be prosecuted in Canada.

Unless he is reclassified as a unlawful combattant, I don't see how he can be prosecuted. Even then, under US law, can he be tried twice for the same crime?

If he is sent to us he will come as a POW. I don't tyink it's lawful for us to make him bunk with Bernardo, Bernardo has rights that must be respected. Perhaps a POW camp in Nunavut. See if they prefer it to the inhuman conditions of the carribean.

[jdobbin]

Unless he is reclassified as a unlawful combattant, I don't see how he can be prosecuted. Even then, under US law, can he be tried twice for the same crime?

If he is sent to us he will come as a POW. I don't tyink it's lawful for us to make him bunk with Bernardo, Bernardo has rights that must be respected. Perhaps a POW camp in Nunavut. See if they prefer it to the inhuman conditions of the carribean.

The Canadian Bar Association has been debating about what charges he could be prosecuted on. I'm not a lawyer but there was some suggestion that he could be charged with a crime. With what, I'm not sure.

I don't know that our own courts will allow for a Canadian citizen to be held as a POW without charges.

The Justice department had better get some idea of what their response might be in the event that Khadr shows up at our doorstep one day.

[kimmy]

The Justice department had better get some idea of what their response might be in the event that Khadr shows up at our doorstep one day.

Why do people assume that the fact that Canada is not demanding Khadr's repatriation means that nobody is even looking at how to handle this?

-k

[jdobbin]

Why do people assume that the fact that Canada is not demanding Khadr's repatriation means that nobody is even looking at how to handle this?

Why do people assume that Justice has a plan? It wouldn't be the first time a government has been caught flatfooted by a failure of foresight.

The only documentation loosened so far by the freedom of information act is that it is "premature to speculate."

[M.Dancer]

I don't know that our own courts will allow for a Canadian citizen to be held as a POW without charges.

A POW can't be charged with a crime unless he has violated the rules of war. Killing the enemy is not a crime unless he had already surrendered.

Best we could do is to not classify him as a POW and try him for treason.

Even better is to leave him in the sunny south with his soul mates.

[jdobbin]

Best we could do is to not classify him as a POW and try him for treason.

Even better is to leave him in the sunny south with his soul mates.

The sunny south option might not be an option if Guantanamo is closed.

I am not certain of what our treason laws are in this day and age.

Edited September 25, 2007 by jdobbin