John Tory Commits Political Suicide

[Leafless]

Pagan schools are being funded now?

My statement "Who the hell wants a pagan State or country anyways" was meant to reflect John Tory's efforts in keeping religion alive and well contrary to those of you who think Canada is a secular (PAGAN) State, which it IS NOT.

[M.Dancer]

My statement "Who the hell wants a pagan State or country anyways" was meant to reflect John Tory's efforts in keeping religion alive and well contrary to those of you who think Canada is a secular (PAGAN) State, which it IS NOT.

Pagan and secular are opposites.

[Leafless]

Pagan and secular are opposites.

A pagan is irreligious and a secularist is not concerned with religion or religious belief.

So tell us Dancer, how pagans and secularist are opposites?

[gc1765]

A pagan is irreligious and a secularist is not concerned with religion or religious belief.

So tell us Dancer, how pagans and secularist are opposites?

Pagan vs. Secular

[M.Dancer]

A pagan is irreligious and a secularist is not concerned with religion or religious belief.

So tell us Dancer, how pagans and secularist are opposites?

Mainly because you are wrong in your definition but also because paganism (or more correctly, neo paganism) is a religious belief system.

Neopaganism or Neo-Paganism is an umbrella term used to identify a wide variety of new religious movements, particularly those influenced by ancient and pre-Abrahamic Pagan religions.[1][2]

These movements are extremely diverse. The beliefs of adherents of Neopaganism range widely from monotheism to polytheism as well as other paradigms. See List of Pagan Traditions.

Many Neopagans practice a spirituality that is entirely modern in origin, while others attempt to reconstruct or revive culturally historic Pagan and indigenous belief systems.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopaganism

[M.Dancer]

Pagan vs. Secular

Gee....really have to be quick around here.

[mikedavid00]

Ethnic segregation is inevitable no matter who you vote for especially with the Charter that actually promotes this.

Mc.Guinty lied his way in last election.

You can keep your liar.

I will vote John Tory who wants and is trying to keep religion alive with funding for all religions, rather than allow Catholics to discriminate against other religions.

Who the hell wants a pagan State or country anyways?

John Tory's election platform makes sense and like he says "leadership matters", "for a better Ontario".

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTV...hub=TorontoHome

I heard Tory on the radio this morning taking back some words. It's just hard to beleive he's a conservative. He has NDP values at hart.

Dalton is liar. His party does the same political tricks. They loot the public funds the same way. They lie, cheat and steal and pay off groups to get votes.

One thing I do know, I will not have an ethnic school down the street from me. I will be allowed to talk on a cel phone in my car, and I don't have a man leader deciding how he's going to tweak and control our society. He's really NDP. He doesn't belong in the party. He's talking about what people can and can't do. What they can and can't say and I just don't like it. He's an idealist.

He was asked about Shariah Law and completely paused and ducked the question Paul Martin style. If you heard this mornings interview you would even loose confidence with him.

Here's the next 20 years of ethnic schooling:

Ethnic schooling is created.

1 year - Ethnic school will force women to wear burkas which will cause islamic infighting. Now 'branches' ethnic of schools are born.

2 years. After terrorist attack, a teacher at an ethnic school has ties with x organazation.

4 years. Sikh's make a non sikh student wear a turban in the school to comply with thier 'religious' beliefs and this costs us millions challenging this and wasting our courts time.

5 years. Language invovlement happens. Teachers are asked to speak a certain language for language teaching in order to futher ghettoize schools

6 years. Union issues. There is a mass shortage of teachers. Ethnic teachers get fast tracked while the rest of the teachers get held to higher standards.

ffwd 15 years. Now 80% of the GTA are minorities and things are out of control. People beleive that Canada is an extension of their home country.

A housing sub division gets built. It will be a more caucasion area probably very far north. There's only a budget for 2 schools in that neighbourhood. One will be secular or christian. The other school will be ethnic. The ethnicity who wins the school basically mean that they neighbourhood now belongs to them. Then the first war breaks out between x culture, and y culture. This makes national news.

This doesn't just segregate schools, this segregates WHOLE NEIGHBOURHOODS.

You don't understand the true power in all this.

This is not a small thing. You have no idea the can of worms that will be open from all this. Tory is just dumb. He's an idealist.. He could become toronto's next mayor, but keep down there. He doesn't belong in real politics.

[Leafless]

Gee....really have to be quick around here.

What you quoted are articles and NOT definitons.

[Leafless]

I heard Tory on the radio this morning taking back some words. It's just hard to beleive he's a conservative. He has NDP values at hart.

Dalton is liar. His party does the same political tricks. They loot the public funds the same way. They lie, cheat and steal and pay off groups to get votes.

One thing I do know, I will not have an ethnic school down the street from me. I will be allowed to talk on a cel phone in my car, and I don't have a man leader deciding how he's going to tweak and control our society. He's really NDP. He doesn't belong in the party. He's talking about what people can and can't do. What they can and can't say and I just don't like it. He's an idealist.

He was asked about Shariah Law and completely paused and ducked the question Paul Martin style. If you heard this mornings interview you would even loose confidence with him.

Here's the next 20 years of ethnic schooling:

Ethnic schooling is created.

1 year - Ethnic school will force women to wear burkas which will cause islamic infighting. Now 'branches' ethnic of schools are born.

2 years. After terrorist attack, a teacher at an ethnic school has ties with x organazation.

4 years. Sikh's make a non sikh student wear a turban in the school to comply with thier 'religious' beliefs and this costs us millions challenging this and wasting our courts time.

5 years. Language invovlement happens. Teachers are asked to speak a certain language for language teaching in order to futher ghettoize schools

6 years. Union issues. There is a mass shortage of teachers. Ethnic teachers get fast tracked while the rest of the teachers get held to higher standards.

ffwd 15 years. Now 80% of the GTA are minorities and things are out of control. People beleive that Canada is an extension of their home country.

A housing sub division gets built. It will be a more caucasion area probably very far north. There's only a budget for 2 schools in that neighbourhood. One will be secular or christian. The other school will be ethnic. The ethnicity who wins the school basically mean that they neighbourhood now belongs to them. Then the first war breaks out between x culture, and y culture. This makes national news.

This doesn't just segregate schools, this segregates WHOLE NEIGHBOURHOODS.

You don't understand the true power in all this.

This is not a small thing. You have no idea the can of worms that will be open from all this. Tory is just dumb. He's an idealist.. He could become toronto's next mayor, but keep down there. He doesn't belong in real politics.

I have been hitting on consequences from mass ethnic immigration all along and know what the implications are.

But it is a known fact Dalton Mc.Guinty is no stranger to multiculturalism and supports it every way he can, just like he does bilingualism. Mc.Guinty might think he is some kind of great Guru, but the fact is money doesn't grow on trees and comes from taxpayers pockets.

I simply think at the moment Dalton Mc.Guinty is more of a threat to the White English speaking Christian residents of Ontario and associated culture and traditions than John Tory is.

Fact is mass ethnic immigration is here and that is the root of the problem.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Leafless

[M.Dancer]

What you quoted are articles and NOT definitons.

Is this an act? Do you pretend to be thick? Why not just say you didn't know that is what it meant and say thanks?

Neo-Paganism definition

n.

Any of various religious movements arising chiefly in the United Kingdom and the United States in the late 20th century that combine worship of pagan nature deities, particularly of the earth, with benign witchcraft.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/n/n0059175.html

[Leafless]

Is this an act? Do you pretend to be thick? Why not just say you didn't know that is what it meant and say thanks?

I have already dictionary defined 'pagan' and 'secularist', which begs the question are you thick?

[southerncomfort]

Too bad but John Tory has just lost a lot of votes IMHO, he must be on a suicide mission.

[gc1765]

I have already dictionary defined 'pagan' and 'secularist', which begs the question are you thick?

Can you provide a link to a reputable dictionary which defines paganism as "irreligious"?

Edited September 6, 2007 by gc1765

[M.Dancer]

I have already dictionary defined 'pagan' and 'secularist', which begs the question are you thick?

No you haven't. Making up definitions out of thin air might work with the other yokels.....

[M.Dancer]

In an unrelated story......

Roberta Stewart was the public face of a long but ultimately successful campaign to allow Wiccan symbols on the government-issued grave markers of fallen military members of the faith.

Her husband, Nevada Army National Guard Sgt. Patrick Stewart, died in a 2005 helicopter crash in Afghanistan, but rules forbade a Wiccan pentacle from being placed on his final resting place. His widow and other Wiccans pressed the issue, and the Department of Veterans Affairs relented earlier this year.

But followers of the "nature-based" faith, and their Pagan brethren, were outraged when Stewart was excluded from a private meeting with President Bush when he traveled to Nevada last Tuesday. Families of other Nevadans killed in combat were invited, as were several of Patrick Stewart's relatives.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/3302

[Leafless]

Can you provide a link to a reputable dictionary which defines paganism as "irreligious"?

I used my hardcover Oxford Concise Dictionary which defines pagan as follows:

Pagan- a person not subscribing to any of the main religions of the world, esp. formerly regarded by Christians as unenlightened or heathen. 1a- of or relating to or associated with pagans. b- irreligious. 2-identifying divinity or spirtuality in nature; pantheistic.

Irreligious- 1.-indifferent or hostile to religion. 2.- lacking a religion.

First primary and secondary definitions of 'Secular'- 1.- concerned with the affairs of this world; not spiritual or sacred. 2. (of education etc.) not concerned with religion or religious belief.

[geoffrey]

Pagan beliefs are those like Christmas trees and Easter bunnies and all sorts of fun stuff like that.

Secular beliefs are things like the freedom for one to practice whatever religion they so desire to practice, without interference or assistance of the state.

We don't need a religious society Leafless, I'd rather have people decide their religious beliefs and fund their religious adventures on their own, thanks.

[guyser]

We don't need a religious society Leafless, I'd rather have people decide their religious beliefs and fund their religious adventures on their own, thanks.

Preach it Brother geoffrey , sing that from the pulp....oh wait, thats not right.

j/k , I agree.

[Leafless]

Pagan beliefs are those like Christmas trees and Easter bunnies and all sorts of fun stuff like that.

If that is what you would like to believe.

Secular beliefs are things like the freedom for one to practice whatever religion they so desire to practice, without interference or assistance of the state.

Like what?

Wicca, satanism, witchcraft, Wiccan, pagan rituals etc.

We don't need a religious society Leafless, I'd rather have people decide their religious beliefs and fund their religious adventures on their own, thanks.

Well sorry to disappoint you, but people have decided a long time ago and we do have a majority religious society and religion in Canada called Christianity which also provided the building blocks for the Canada we have to-day and the one you enjoy in Alberta.

It is even reflected in our constitution:

Whereas Canada is founded upon the principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law.

Notice the capital 'G'.

[guyser]

QUOTE

Whereas Canada is founded upon the principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law.

Notice the capital 'G'

So, was Canada founded on Muslim principles? Jah, the Rastafari movement?Waheguru the Sikhs god?

Since they all worship God , note the capital "G"

[geoffrey]

Like what?

Wicca, satanism, witchcraft, Wiccan, pagan rituals etc.

If that's what someone wants to do, I could really care less. Seems foolish of them but oh well, it's their choice.

Well sorry to disappoint you, but people have decided a long time ago and we do have a majority religious society and religion in Canada called Christianity which also provided the building blocks for the Canada we have to-day and the one you enjoy in Alberta.

The majority aren't Church going and are mostly 'Christian' because they are told to be, not because they actually believe in it or follow any of the rules and regulations of the religion.

This is all fine, but do consider once the government gets involved in religion, it's hard to get it out. If they start promoting religion (why you want that, I'm unsure), then they have control over it. Look at Quebec prior to the Quiet Revolution. It was such a tangled web of religion and politics. I think they are best left seperate.

Religion has no place in politics and politics none in religion. Christians do and should have the right to practice their religion in Canada, free from harrasment and other abuse. That said the government really has no business at all in dealing with religion... that would take away the big ol' constitutional freedom of conscience and religion thingy.

It is even reflected in our constitution:

Notice the capital 'G'.

That's rather irrelevant. Jews, Muslims and some others all believe in 'God.' It's not founded on the basis of 'Jesus.'

[jbg]

Maybe Tory is trying to court the evangelical vote....but being in violation of the curriculum isn';t the way, especially if one of the selling points of broadening the separate system is to reassure the public that the curriculum will be adhered to.

The fact is that those "alternative views" are religion and not science. They should not be taught in the schools.

[geoffrey]

The fact is that those "alternative views" are religion and not science. They should not be taught in the schools.

Well, we have religious schools so perhaps "they should not be taught in science class."

Though then I fear that religion class will follow science class with a lesson on creationism right after evolution (or God forbid before). Maybe it's time we secularise all public schools. If you want something different, you pay for it and the government refunds your portion of government education.

I understand Catholic education is a Constitutional right, but that could be changed with time.

I know Leafless will protest, but how about a deal. Get rid of official multiculturalism while we are at it and make people fund their own rituals, cultures and explorations thereof.

[jennie]

Well, we have religious schools so perhaps "they should not be taught in science class."

Though then I fear that religion class will follow science class with a lesson on creationism right after evolution (or God forbid before). Maybe it's time we secularise all public schools. If you want something different, you pay for it and the government refunds your portion of government education.

I understand Catholic education is a Constitutional right, but that could be changed with time.

I know Leafless will protest, but how about a deal. Get rid of official multiculturalism while we are at it and make people fund their own rituals, cultures and explorations thereof.

http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/newsroom...&SbjctID=21

Well some people might get upset ... the UEL's maybe?

There are lots of cultural organizations represented ... from Canada's whole immigrant history.

Very interesting.

[scribblet]

It's hard to disagree with the concept of funding other faith based schools as long as we continue to fund Catholic schools.

Besides it's darned hypocritical of McGuinty (and others) to go go on about secular schooling and all when they attended Catholic schools themselves. Not to mention that Tory's comments about teaching creationism seem to have been taken out of context as creationist material is already included in the religious studies courses taught at the publicly funded RC schools in Ontario, and, his comment referred only to religious studies, not science class.

What about the aboriginal creationist myths - I understand they are taught in some history courses, should that be allowed or not, or is just plain politically incorrect to talk about that one.