Police provoking violence?

[M.Dancer]

We aren't talking about the other protestors who may or may not have thrown rocks or acted violently.

So undercover cops are more important than a bunch of hippies throwing rocks at police?

What we have is the opinion of some Union who say they were "provocatuers".....an opinion, no evidence.

What we do have in evidence are vids of punks thowing rocks at police. They shouild have all been arrsted and carged with assault with a deadly weapon. Too bad the Union fellow interfered and outted the undercovers before they could indentify the suspects.

Next thing you know the Mafia will be complaining about undercover cops too.....

[M.Dancer]

Council of Canadians chairwoman Maude Barlow said Coles’ intervention against the three black-clad men prevented “bloodshed” in their protest area, which was designated for peaceful action.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.ht...66-cca513248318

Obvioulsy the cops were in the wrong place. They should have asked Maiude for directions to the area designated for violent hippies......

[kuzadd]

If this thread goes till next monday, Buffy will have the cop count up to 20

I think, you need to "get out more" myself.

or just , like, read.

Provocateurs, nothing new under the sun there!

here M, I'll help you ok?

let's start with wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

Then you can go from there, maybe some historical references to provocateurs,(spies, double agents) etc.,

Anyway, the fact that they ran TO the cops, and were whisked away , without charge is pretty damning in itself.

[runningdog]

Forget about the boots being the same as the police, why would these 3 protestors be led away by police with their masks still on?

Edited August 23, 2007 by runningdog

[capricorn]

The Quebec police issued a press release admitting they planted officers among the protesters. They claim it was not done to incite violence. It's in French only. Check English media for the story later. I didn't see anything yet.

http://www.suretequebec.gouv.qc.ca/accueil...0070823_02.html

[jdobbin]

The Quebec police issued a press release admitting they planted officers among the protesters. They claim it was not done to incite violence. It's in French only. Check English media for the story later. I didn't see anything yet.

http://www.suretequebec.gouv.qc.ca/accueil...0070823_02.html

Here is the CBC report.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/23/...montebello.html

Quebec provincial police admitted Thursday that their officers disguised themselves as demonstrators during the protest at the North American leaders summit in Montebello, Que.

However, the police force denied allegations its undercover officers were at the demonstrations on Monday to provoke the crowd and instigate violence.

"At no time did the police of the Sûreté du Québec act as instigators or commit criminal acts," the police force said in French in a news release. "It is not in the police force's policies, nor in its strategies, to act in that manner."

[M.Dancer]

Here is the CBC report.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/23/...montebello.html

I heard on te news the Police said the undercover officers were outted because when told to throw the rocks at the police, they didn't.

[Keepitsimple]

I heard on te news the Police said the undercover officers were outted because when told to throw the rocks at the police, they didn't.

Here's a quote from the CBC News Story:

Police said the three were told to monitor protesters who were not peacefully demonstrating to prevent any violent incidents, but they were called out as undercover agents when they refused to throw objects.

[M.Dancer]

Here's a quote from the CBC News Story:

Would have been funny had they shot the person who told them to throw the rocks......

"They were conspiring to use a deadly weapon, so we took him out, tabernac... '

[jdobbin]

Here is a quote I have always found funny.

"Gentlemen, get the thing straight once and for all — the policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." —Mayor Richard Daley, Chicago, 1968

[Visionseeker]

I heard on te news the Police said the undercover officers were outted because when told to throw the rocks at the police, they didn't.

I have a problem with that interpretation after viewing the Youtube piece. Coles is clearly reminding the three amigos (repeatedly) that theirs is a peaceful protest and frequently demands that one of the three “drop the rock”.

It is my understanding that both the RCMP and Sûreté initially denied that officers were involved. Now the Sûreté is admitting that they were.

The rock-throwing-refusal-leads-to-outing-of-officers line just seems like another amateurish move. No rocks were thrown by the “grandparents” on that line and claiming that the officers refused to be incited is rather odd considering one of them had a rock in his hand that he wouldn’t drop!

Maybe it was just an intelligence exercise. But then it was badly planned and the fall-out was managed worse still.

I’d say an investigation is in order. At worst we’ll find a police force applying unacceptable tactics; at best someone’s career path in counter-intelligence will be mercifully halted.

[kimmy]

Since when have "agent provocateurs" ever been required to turn one of these protests ugly? They have a long and sordid track record of turning ugly all on their own. I have seen interviews with some of the small minority (and it is a small minority) who attend these things with the intention of turning the protest into something less than peaceful, and the opinion expressed was that peaceful protest is ineffective and ignored, while violence and vandalism draws large-scale media attention to their cause.

I believe (and I am sure that the peaceful protesters agree) that violence and vandalism distracts from the message they want to get out, and sadly gives the viewer the impression that the protest is just a bunch of hooligans.

Here is something I wrote years ago while I was living in Ottawa and had just witnessed one of these events first hand. I, the copyright holder, give myself permission to reprint this in its entirety.

The G-20 conference was here today. I was downtown today and saw some of it. A lot of the streets were blocked off. It was an annoyance, as the police had many of the main streets and bus-routes blocked off. It made it difficult to get to work. Of course the reason for all the streets to be blocked off was because there were thousands of protesters. It was quite an experience. Hundreds of people marching, beating drums and waving banners. The echo between the tall downtown buildings made a howling sound that was almost otherworldly.

What is the G-20? Apparently, this was a meeting of trade and finance ministers from the 20 largest economics on earth. They were here to talk about global economics, trade and tariffs, high finance, and whatever else it is that trade ministers do.

What were the protesters protesting? They are protesting against governments that put the interests of big business ahead of the interest of ordinary people. For the record, I think it's a good cause. Government should be for people. We give corporations so much already. They get away with so much already. And now they are pushing for looser environmental standards, for less restriction on the way they do business, less accountability to local governments and the communities they work it. People should know about this.

It's such a shame. It's a shame that the protesters make such FOOLS of themselves. It was embarrassing for me to think that when society as a whole thinks of my generation, this is what they see. It is a good cause. It is something that people should know about. So why do they make such fools of themselves? Don't they know that when people go down the street and see leaflets that say "Beaten and Robbed by the Police at G-20" taped to telephone poles, they will laugh? Everybody knows that the "beatings" were of a handful of anarchists who were looking for fights, and that the "robbery" was confiscation of weapons. When people see people like this acting like martyrs, there can only be scorn.

I guess somebody with my fine sense of Irony should appreciate the humour in seeing a mob of angry university kids smash the windows out of a McDonald's, while sipping Starbucks coffee, and wearing Hilfigers and Nikes.

Let's face it. 95% of these people were university students anyway. How many of them paid for university tuition by growing organic vegetables and making garments from hemp-fibre? They are so quick to raise their fists against all things corporate and all things government, but the truth is that these people, the privileged children of middle-class and upper-class families, have benefitted from this system more than most. I did not see any homeless people in the rally. I did not see any welfare moms. Just privileged kids, professional shit-disturbers, and over-the-hill hippies. How much credibility do these people really have?

It's just a pity that instead of getting their message out, the protesters are all about noise and antics and stupidity. When people watch this stuff on the news, do they think about the message? No. They just see a bunch of people acting like thugs. Vandalism doesn't get the message out, it distracts from the message. Most people don't even understand what the cause, they just think it's a bunch of hooligans out making trouble. What are people supposed to think when they see a bunch of people stomping around wearing masks, destroying property. I had to laugh at a young woman wandering around in a hockey helmet, army-jacket, camoflage pants, and a bandana over her face, carrying a hockey-stick and chanting "This is what democracy looks like!" No, that's not what democracy looks like. Not in this country.

-k

[kuzadd]

So the police admit it, but, not to provoke violence eh??

lol!

So why carry rocks, if not to throw?

They were caught, nailed by the protestors.

The planting of agents like this serves two purposes, IMO, to justify the massive budget for security, and it's also a PR move, if one can get the crowd to take the bait, it can then be used as a public relations tool to demonize the protestors.

Look, bad protestors, see, they are ruly, destructive and we need these big security shows costing taxpayers loads of cash.

"Since when have "agent provocateurs" ever been required to turn one of these protests ugly?"

Since always, protestors have spoke of them, time and time again, at all major protests.

From Seattle, to Genoa, the agent provocateurs, have been present.

[buffycat]

Does anyone here really believe that this is the first time a police force in Canada has used this technique?

If - and this is a really big IF - these police were simply in the crowd to monitor - then why the rocks? Why the typical 'protestor' clothing? Why threaten the violence?

PROVOCATION - simple.

This is done to stifle dissent. When protests turn 'ugly' one has to ask whose purpose it actually serves. It does not serve the real protestors aims - it does however serve the establishment's aim: to stifle and to stop dissent, to allow for increased police budgets vis a vis 'security', and it also serves to keep otherwise law abiding people from even coming to these protests.

So - who benefits?

This isn't the first time, nor the first place this has happened - this is however one of the few times they have been caught red handed (thanks to you tube and coles).

Wake up to those who think this is some kind of 'isolated' incident.

A full inquiry should occur and all those responsible be 'outed'.

Keep this incident in mind the next time you hear of violence at protests.

[buffycat]

Would have been funny had they shot the person who told them to throw the rocks......

"They were conspiring to use a deadly weapon, so we took him out, tabernac... '

Dancer you are truly a sick individual if you really think that shooting at people is acceptable, and funny even.

Sick sick sick... spit.

[margrace]

The Quebec police are admitting this morning that these were their men, It seems to me that whenever I have seen videos of violence in public protests that there are people dressed as these were and doing violent things. If faces are covered such as this it is very easy to blame me. I support some of the groups who were protesting. I have little faith in our supposed guardians of our safety especially after some of the things that have happened over the last several years.

The shooting unarmed protesters, Dudley George, the incident at UBC, Chretien was involved in that all prove that if we don't kotow to the people with the power we are in danger.

[M.Dancer]

I have a problem with that interpretation after viewing the Youtube piece. Coles is clearly reminding the three amigos (repeatedly) that theirs is a peaceful protest and frequently demands that one of the three “drop the rock”.

I have a problem in general with editted for propaganda effect videos.....what happened before the star of the video, Cole (what a coincidence...the Union boss and a video with under cover cops all at the same moment) arrived in anyones guess.

Edited August 24, 2007 by M.Dancer

[M.Dancer]

Dancer you are truly a sick individual if you really think that shooting at people is acceptable, and funny even.

Sick sick sick... spit.

I think shooting at people who are trying to kill and maim is quite appropriate. And if the are punk anarchists, potentially funny.

[old_bold&cold]

I have man questions about this whole event. But what makes me wonder most is why did the Police even have weapons on the front line. There were no weapons brought by the protesters, and rocks are no match for guns. Since it is probably now more likely then not that police were there as palnts to start something, and the protesters wree really mnostly peaceful people then the police used way more force then needed. The firing of rubber bullets should have been met with the same from the protesters and it would or at least should be seen as self defence. I think it is about time thatthe police learn the lesson that if they use excessive force or pull thrier weapons for things that are clearly unjustified that those who these things are used against should be able to use deadly force back at the police. That is what justice should call for. Maybe then people will think twice about things.

[M.Dancer]

I have man questions about this whole event. But what makes me wonder most is why did the Police even have weapons on the front line.

A rock is a weapon.

[M.Dancer]

......and the protesters wree really mnostly peaceful people then the police used way more force then needed.

Except for the one throwing rocks at police.

[M.Dancer]

The firing of rubber bullets should have been met with the same from the protesters and it would or at least should be seen as self defence.

The police fired rubber bullets at stone throwing hooligans

[M.Dancer]

I think it is about time thatthe police learn the lesson that if they use excessive force or pull thrier weapons for things that are clearly unjustified that those who these things are used against should be able to use deadly force back at the police. That is what justice should call for. Maybe then people will think twice about things.

I think protesters should learn a lesson that if they destroy property or start inciting violence or throw rocks at police there's a good chance they will be f*cked up by the police. Seems fair and they might start to think twice about being idiots. And if anyone even tries to use deadly force on police I certainly hope to God that the state doesn't have to pay for the buggers funeral.

[margrace]

We have to keep our troops in Afghanistan to teach them democracy. Perhaps we should practise what we preach, Democracy belongs to everyone and allowing this type of thing to go on is not democratic.

We learn by example and how can that example teach anything but violence. A few hypocrites on here aye.

[M.Dancer]

I love alternative news sites.

MONTEBELLO, Ontario, Aug. 20 Demonstrators took to the streets in the Canadian town where Prime Minister Stephen Harper was the host for his counterparts from the United States and Mexico

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/95949.html

Maybe that's why the turnout was so sad. They got lost.