the cost of war

[planetx]

has the war in iraq been worth the money spent?

i believe the answer is a definitive 'no'.

the conservative movement in the u.s. have a lot of work ahead of them in attempts to distance themselves from the neocon fiscal fiasco which is the iraq war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business...7a6408c&ei=5090

[M.Dancer]

has the war in iraq been worth the money spent?

i believe the answer is a definitive 'no'.

the conservative movement in the u.s. have a lot of work ahead of them in attempts to distance themselves from the neocon fiscal fiasco which is the iraq war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business...7a6408c&ei=5090

The war should be made real to them. Short of sending every ameican over to Iraq, perhaps the should send every american a bill, amortised of course, for the money owing. I wonder whether americans would ever support another unwarrented war if they knew it would cost each and everyone $40,000

[Guest American Woman]

Because of course all Americans supported it.

[M.Dancer]

Because of course all Americans supported it.

That's irrelevant ain't it? All americans one way or another will pay for it, why not this generation instead of passing the borrowing costs to future generations?

[Guest American Woman]

Because of course all Americans supported it.

That's irrelevant ain't it? All americans one way or another will pay for it, why not this generation instead of passing the borrowing costs to future generations?

When you make comments like "The war should be made real to them. Short of sending every ameican over to Iraq..." and "I wonder whether americans would ever support another unwarrented war..." it's very relevant. How about sending the bill to those who actually supported the war? That would make a lot more sense in light of your comments. And how about sending you a bill from the Canadian government for the cost of the war in Afghanistan? Do you feel that war is warrented?

[M.Dancer]

When you make comments like "The war should be made real to them. Short of sending every ameican over to Iraq..." and "I wonder whether americans would ever support another unwarrented war..." it's very relevant. How about sending the bill to those who actually supported the war? That would make a lot more sense in light of your comments. And how about sending you a bill from the Canadian government for the cost of the war in Afghanistan? Do you feel that war is warrented?

I'm pretty sure I will be getting a bill for Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure even Canadians who don't support the war will pay for it.

I just think if you are going to destroy a nation it isn't unreasonable that the generation that called the play pays for the play. As it stands the 1.2 trillion won't be paid till my grandchildren are working......

Edited August 1, 2007 by M.Dancer

[SkyhookJackson]

Because of course all Americans supported it.

That's sarcasm . . . right? While the majority of Americans did support it, we were also fed a bill of goods. But how were we to know? We don't have access to intelligence. Sadly, though, about 40% of Americans still believe Iraq had something to do with 9/11, that Sadam and Osama were partners in crime and that Iraq had WMD. And Bushco is still trying to scare the bejesus out of us. He invoked Al-Quaeda 96 times in a speech the other day. To add insult to injury it's costing us nearly 2 billion a week (and Bush has the nerve to threaten a veto of the children's health care bill). Meanwhile, back in Baghdad, the poor citizens who remain in the country are living in 130 degree heat with hardly any electricity, water or sewage disposal. I truly pity the next president. What a bloody mess to clean up.

[Guest American Woman]

When you make comments like "The war should be made real to them. Short of sending every ameican over to Iraq..." and "I wonder whether americans would ever support another unwarrented war..." it's very relevant. How about sending the bill to those who actually supported the war? That would make a lot more sense in light of your comments. And how about sending you a bill from the Canadian government for the cost of the war in Afghanistan? Do you feel that war is warrented?

I'm pretty sure I will be getting a bill for Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure even Canadians who don't support the war will pay for it.

I just think if you are going to destroy a nation it isn't unreasonable that the generation that called the play pays for the play. As it stands the 1.2 trillion won't be paid till my grandchildren are working......

So in other words, your comments about Americans and the war in Iraq are just as suitable for Canadians and the war in Afghanistan. No difference. And you'll be paying for it whether you feel it's warrented or not, and so will your children, and grandchildren. Again, no difference.

Edited August 1, 2007 by American Woman

[M.Dancer]

So in other words, your comments about Americans and the war in Iraq are just as suitable for Canadians and the war in Afghanistan. No difference. And you'll be paying for it whether you feel it's warrented or not, and so will your children, and grandchildren. Again, no difference.

Yes but with the exception that the war in Afghanistan is justified and the war in Iraq is a failure on all levels.

That and the war debt that Canada will accrue won't be 1/100th of America's Iraq debt so it will be paid off as we go.

I suppose it comes down to the different administrations in play. In the US they got sucked into the quagmire, the more they pull the deeper they get sucked......and that sucking noise is mainly from wallets....

[Guest American Woman]

Oh, I see. The old "justified" excuse for killing innocent civilians and destroying a country. Because we all know Afghanistan was the power behind 9-11. And let's not forget how very successful it's been, eh?

Out of curiosity, just what has the war in Afghanistan cost Canadians? Besides the loss of lives.

[M.Dancer]

Oh, I see. The old "justified" excuse for killing innocent civilians and destroying a country. Because we all know Afghanistan was the power behind 9-11. And let's not forget how very successful it's been, eh?

strawman

Out of curiosity, just what has the war in Afghanistan cost Canadians? Besides the loss of lives.

There are financial costs. In August 2006, the Polaris Institute estimated that the counter-insurgency mission would cost Canadian taxpayers around $4 billion over two years. That, of course, works out to $2 billion per year. This compares to the $1 billion, over ten years, that Canada is providing for reconstruction and development in Afghanistan, which works out to $100 million per year -- or five per cent of what we're spending on the military mission.

These financial costs also constitute opportunity costs. Four billion dollars could provide a massive amount of development and humanitarian assistance, and not just in Afghanistan.

Wisely spent, this money could save millions of lives, especially in disease and famine-ridden sub-Sahara Africa.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/10/06/Afghanistan/

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh, I see. The old "justified" excuse for killing innocent civilians and destroying a country. Because we all know Afghanistan was the power behind 9-11. And let's not forget how very successful it's been, eh?

Afghanistan...Iraq...Iraq...Afghanistan....round and round we go. Problematic for some Canadians with mixed results to show for their "justified" part of the "war". I think it is pretty much understood that anyone killed by Canadian forces deserved to die (by definition). Canada can do no wrong, unlike the evil and greedy Americans. </sarcasm>

[bush_cheney2004]

That and the war debt that Canada will accrue won't be 1/100th of America's Iraq debt so it will be paid off as we go.

America is not Canada...it is not afraid of debt. As I recall, the Americans went steeply into debt for another favorite war, much to the delight of Canadians and empire brethren.

[Guest American Woman]

Oh, I see. The old "justified" excuse for killing innocent civilians and destroying a country. Because we all know Afghanistan was the power behind 9-11. And let's not forget how very successful it's been, eh?

strawman

Oh, really? Pointing out that Afghansitan was no more involved in 9-11 than Iraq is, to point out that thousands of innocent civilians have died in Afghanistan, pointing out that the mission there has been anything but a success is a strawman?? I guess only the United States can do wrong, while Canada is involved in an oh-so-just war. I'm sure the innocent Afghanis would support you on that.

So let's get back to criticizing the war-mongering Americans, who all need to be taught how terrible war is.

What a joke.

[bush_cheney2004]

So let's get back to criticizing the war-mongering Americans, who all need to be taught how terrible war is.

What a joke.

Yep...you're on to their game...some (not all) Canadians that is. Many are stuck in the middle, fretting over what to do until 2009 rescues them. Others are quickly spooked by the body count of less than 100 Canadians who gave their lives believing in the mission, not so much the thousands of Afghanis. In their world, Canadian Forces are "white night" peacekeepers who should never fall in battles to slay the cursed enemy.

Death in Serbia or Afghansitan good for human rights...death in Iraq (except for the Gulf War and UN sanctions) bad for human rights!

The cost of war? If you have to ask the price...you can't afford it.

[ft.niagara]

That's irrelevant ain't it? All americans one way or another will pay for it, why not this generation instead of passing the borrowing costs to future generations?

I do not see the US ever 'paying' back its debt. It will just be inflated away, nationalized away, or some other way made to disappear. For the forseeable future, it will pay interest on the debt, but someday, push will come to shove, it always does.

[Guest American Woman]

That's irrelevant ain't it? All americans one way or another will pay for it, why not this generation instead of passing the borrowing costs to future generations?

I do not see the US ever 'paying' back its debt. It will just be inflated away, nationalized away, or some other way made to disappear. For the forseeable future, it will pay interest on the debt, but someday, push will come to shove, it always does.

How will this debt disappear? It's our debt, to our own nation. I can't imagine it just disappearing.

[SkyhookJackson]

It will be interesting to learn whether funds directed toward war contributed to the apparent lack of maintenance of the Minneapolis bridge. I heard on the news it was deemed "structurally deficient" 2 years ago. Aren't federal funds used to maintain the interstate highway system? There seems to be no money for anything but war and tax cuts for the megarich.

[buffycat]

It will be interesting to learn whether funds directed toward war contributed to the apparent lack of maintenance of the Minneapolis bridge. I heard on the news it was deemed "structurally deficient" 2 years ago. Aren't federal funds used to maintain the interstate highway system? There seems to be no money for anything but war and tax cuts for the megarich.

IMO it most likely did. Just as the terrible response to the Katrina disaster was affected by most of the NG being in Iraq.

Infrastructure is aging all over NA - not just in the US. Infrastructure is IMO something that the government actually SHOULD be responsible for - using OUR tax dollars.

My heart goes out to those who were affected by this latest bridge distaster. Terrible.

[bush_cheney2004]

It will be interesting to learn whether funds directed toward war contributed to the apparent lack of maintenance of the Minneapolis bridge. I heard on the news it was deemed "structurally deficient" 2 years ago. Aren't federal funds used to maintain the interstate highway system? There seems to be no money for anything but war and tax cuts for the megarich.

Yea, the US federal budget of nearly $2,900,000,000,000 is only devoted to war...nothing left for anything else. I'm waiting for the first post that claims the Bush administration felled the bridge with secret bombs planted by Neocon Ninjas...you know...like the World Trade Center.

Polynewbie where are you?? (Sung to the theme song for Car 54, Where Are You?)

[kuzadd]

has the war in iraq been worth the money spent?

i believe the answer is a definitive 'no'.

the conservative movement in the u.s. have a lot of work ahead of them in attempts to distance themselves from the neocon fiscal fiasco which is the iraq war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business...7a6408c&ei=5090

interesting article.

To clarify, let's not lump all "Canucks" and "Yanks" into one group.

This Canuck, thinks iraq, Afghanistan and Serbia were crocks of doodoo

I din't support any of this garbage, and I DO NOT want to pay for it.

No sense throwing good money after bad, and all bad, all pointless.

I am completely aware, from the Americans I know that, all Americans did NOT support the attack on Iraq, I think the gungho, should pay for it!

back to the American taxpayer dollars, and it is unfortunate, the war has cost them this much, and that the Bush junta grossly misrepresented, oh I mean, lied, again, about that!

[bush_cheney2004]

IMO it most likely did. Just as the terrible response to the Katrina disaster was affected by most of the NG being in Iraq.

Infrastructure is aging all over NA - not just in the US. Infrastructure is IMO something that the government actually SHOULD be responsible for - using OUR tax dollars.

Then clearly the bridge collapse in Quebec (2006) was caused by Canadian spending on war in Afghanistan.

In fact, disaster preparedness dollars for homeland security contributed to the well executed response in Minneapolis. But not much fun in that when it comes to Bush bashing.

[M.Dancer]

Oh, I see. The old "justified" excuse for killing innocent civilians and destroying a country. Because we all know Afghanistan was the power behind 9-11. And let's not forget how very successful it's been, eh?

strawman

Oh, really? Pointing out that Afghansitan was no more involved in 9-11 than Iraq is

My mistake then.

Falsehood

[buffycat]

IMO it most likely did. Just as the terrible response to the Katrina disaster was affected by most of the NG being in Iraq.

Infrastructure is aging all over NA - not just in the US. Infrastructure is IMO something that the government actually SHOULD be responsible for - using OUR tax dollars.

Then clearly the bridge collapse in Quebec (2006) was caused by Canadian spending on war in Afghanistan.

In fact, disaster preparedness dollars for homeland security contributed to the well executed response in Minneapolis. But not much fun in that when it comes to Bush bashing.

Probably not just the war in Afghanistan, but also the other crap our government wastes money on: bilingualism; mulitculturalism, PR for the sake of PR, Adscam you know all the junk our admins think will 'feel good' for the folks!

Now, wrt to this bridge collapse (as well as other American infrastructure problems) see this article:

Bush puts pinch on Domestic Spending

President Bush yesterday proposed deep cuts to federal healthcare, education, and transportation programs, searching for new money in the federal budget to pay for increasingly costly defense programs and the war in Iraq.

********

So go ahead, Mr. Bush_Cheney2004, keep spreading your disinfo. Anyone can look up whether or not what you say has any validity. It's easy - because in this case YOU don't.

Education, health care, emergency preparedness, and a litany of other governmental responsibilities have been placed on the back burner and seen budgets slashed in order to fund the illegal war in Iraq and the ongoing invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.

Sorry - but you are wrong here.

What about the current medi-cal problems in California?

Hmmmm?

Here's an interesting report filed two years ago wrt the bridges (and other vital infrastructure) in the US:

http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/page.cfm?id=103

Between 2000 and 2003, the percentage of the nation's 590,750 bridges rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete decreased slightly from 28.5% to 27.1%. However, it will cost $9.4 billion a year for 20 years to eliminate all bridge deficiencies. Long-term underinvestment is compounded by the lack of a Federal transportation program.

There ya go.

[bush_cheney2004]

Probably not just the war in Afghanistan, but also the other crap our government wastes money on: bilingualism; mulitculturalism, PR for the sake of PR, Adscam you know all the junk our admins think will 'feel good' for the folks!

...So go ahead, Mr. Bush_Cheney2004, keep spreading your disinfo. Anyone can look up whether or not what you say has any validity. It's easy - because in this case YOU don't.

Education, health care, emergency preparedness, and a litany of other governmental responsibilities have been placed on the back burner and seen budgets slashed in order to fund the illegal war in Iraq and the ongoing invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.

Sorry - but you are wrong here.

No actually I am right....emergency preparedness has benefitted from Homeland Security spending. You are wrong. WRT bridges and infrastructue, Congress passes the budgets, not the president, and they were in bad shape long before Bush came along. (Even if funding had been available, the 35W bridge had been inspected, was structually deficient (like 40% of 80,000 bridges), and was not scheduled for replacement until at least 2015.

So go ahead and enjoy the Winter Olympics spending for Vancouver and new CF-177 Globemasters while your bridges rot, not to mention the war in Afghanistan....seems that Canada has the same priorities, eh? How dare Ottawa cut health care spending while bombing Serbs!!! How is that Gun Registry thingy going??

Edited August 2, 2007 by bush_cheney2004