Islam Can Be Constructive and Not Violent

[jbg]

This article, in today's Journal News, a Westchester County, New York paper (link to article) emphasizes that Islam can function as just another religion, blend into and play a constructive role in the community. There are several points worth noting. One is the interest in being part of the local community, not being apart from it. Another is the unequivocal rejection of terror, not one couched in saying "Israel does it also". Another is the abjuring from the Sunni=Shi'ite schism.

This seems to be a model for Muslim development in the West. It depends, however, on integration, as opposed to multiculturalism.

Excerpts below:

Muslims look to plant roots in northern Westchester

By GARY STERN AND ELIZABETH GANGA

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: July 23, 2007)

NEW CASTLE - It was 10 years ago that a group of highly educated, affluent Muslims who had been drawn to the comfortable lifestyle and top-ranked schools of northern Westchester began to pursue a vision of a new community.

*****

Dr. Saleem Mir, 64, of Cortlandt, a former chairman of the Westchester Muslim Center in Mount Vernon, said the newer group's many American-born professionals are well-suited to help develop a new type of American Muslim mosque that can connect with the larger community.

Members of the UWMS already take part in several interfaith groups.

**********

Rabbi Joshua Davidson, president of the Chappaqua Interfaith Council, which includes the UWMS, said there was nothing unusual about the mosque's goals.

"They want the same things for their families that we want for ours," said Davidson, who leads Temple Beth El of Northern Westchester in Chappaqua.

***********

Most worshippers who come to the mosque are Sunni Muslims. But the Sunni-Shiite split that is so important in Iraq and much of the Muslim world is largely meaningless to a multiethnic, American start-up mosque.

"We try not to make any distinctions between sects," said Anees Shaikh, 35, of Yorktown, vice president of the society and an IBM employee.

*************

The UWMS released a statement July 6 condemning the attempted terrorist bombings in England. It read, in part: "We, along with the vast majority of Muslims, view those who commit terror crimes in the name of religion as only trying to hijack religion and destroy the goodness of the human race."

*********

Ali wanted to make the point that American Muslims do not obsess over international events, as others might think.

"I'm always answering questions about violence and religion," he said. "I spend much less than 1 percent of my time thinking about these things. Growing up in Chappaqua, I saw buses taking kids to Catholic school and Temple Beth El. That's the goal, to have what those kids have."

**********

Upper Westchester Muslim Society members say they moved to northern Westchester for the same reasons as the mosque's new neighbors and want to protect the town's character. They only want what other religious groups already have, they say.

[jdobbin]

This seems to be a model for Muslim development in the West. It depends, however, on integration, as opposed to multiculturalism.

Sounds like a lot of Muslim communities across North America. I'm not sure what integration means though as compared to multiculturalism.

Multicultural around here is different ethnic, religious and people of different colour living together.

Edited July 25, 2007 by jdobbin

[jbg]

Sounds like a lot of Muslim communities across North America. I'm not sure what integration means though as compared to multiculturalism.

Multicultural around here is different ethnic, religious and people of different colour living together.

I consider "multiculturalism" to be the sanctioning of groups segregating themselves rather than joining the nation as a whole.

[capricorn]

Sounds like a lot of Muslim communities across North America. I'm not sure what integration means though as compared to multiculturalism.

Multicultural around here is different ethnic, religious and people of different colour living together.

I consider "multiculturalism" to be the sanctioning of groups segregating themselves rather than joining the nation as a whole.

Isn't it too bad that Pierre Elliot Trudeau is no longer around to explain to us what "multiculturalism" really means? It looks like we went astray somewhere. Cultures were supposed to integrate. Now we find they are segregating. Was this PET's way of differentiating Canada from the US? Creating a distinct Canadian culture. What a challenge with historic consequences. The Canadian multiculturalism model over the US melting pot model. I can only imagine the angst he must have felt over making this momentous choice.

[Riverwind]

Now we find they are segregating.

I don't understand why people say this. I live in an Vancouver which is an incredibly diverse and see no evidence that cultures are segragating.

[jbg]

Now we find they are segregating.

I don't understand why people say this. I live in an Vancouver which is an incredibly diverse and see no evidence that cultures are segragating.

Oh yes. The commercial landlord that will rent only to Chinese businesses?

[Riverwind]

The commercial landlord that will rent only to Chinese businesses?

1) That was a claim made by some tenets that did not get their leases renewed - I have not heard anything that supports their claim.

2) Data is not the plural of anecdote. IOW - even if it is true it is an isolated incident.

I have lived here for 15+ years and find that the different cultures have integrated extremely well and see no evidence of segregating. I actually see the reverse - mixed race children are very common.

[BC_chick]

Isn't it too bad that Pierre Elliot Trudeau is no longer around to explain to us what "multiculturalism" really means? It looks like we went astray somewhere.

All western nations, including Canada, showed slowing birth-rates during the 20th century.

All western nations, including Canada, adopted a multi-cultural policy, to some degree or another, in order to meet the needs of their aging populations.

Only Canada had a Pierre E. Trudeau.

What is/are the common catalyst/s for the adoption multicultural policies in western societies.....?

Hint - it's not PET.

[kimmy]

All western nations, including Canada, showed slowing birth-rates during the 20th century.

All western nations, including Canada, adopted a multi-cultural policy, to some degree or another, in order to meet the needs of their aging populations.

Are you saying that allowing immigration and multiculturalism are the same thing?

If so, I'm not sure I agree. (cue "Great American melting-pot" theory.)

If not, then I'm not sure what slow birth rates have to do with multiculturalism. (low birth rates and concerns about an aging population are, obviously, justifications for immigration, but are neither for nor against "multiculturalism" as a goal in and of itself.)

-k

[jbg]

If not, then I'm not sure what slow birth rates have to do with multiculturalism. (low birth rates and concerns about an aging population are, obviously, justifications for immigration, but are neither for nor against "multiculturalism" as a goal in and of itself.)

Multiculturalism has nothing to do with birth rates. Multiculturalism, i.e. not discouraging immigrants to form segregated enclaves, is one way of handling them. That way, for a time, they are invisible, and don't "offend" the "majority" community. That is, until they become carge enough to become a problem.

Far better for immigrants to become true Americans (or Canadians). Khadr and Arer are certainly not people that anyone would consider Canadians.

Edited July 25, 2007 by jbg

[NovaScotian]

What are "true Canadians"? Someone who guzzles down four beers and two beaver tails? Canadians themselves, not including immigrants, are very diverse in culture and lifestyle.

[jbg]

What are "true Canadians"? Someone who guzzles down four beers and two beaver tails? Canadians themselves, not including immigrants, are very diverse in culture and lifestyle.

I'm not sure, but I'd start with someone who, when asked their nationality, answers "I'm Canadian", not, I'm Jamaican followed by hyphen, etc.

[scribblet]

If not, then I'm not sure what slow birth rates have to do with multiculturalism. (low birth rates and concerns about an aging population are, obviously, justifications for immigration, but are neither for nor against "multiculturalism" as a goal in and of itself.)

Multiculturalism has nothing to do with birth rates. Multiculturalism, i.e. not discouraging immigrants to form segregated enclaves, is one way of handling them. That way, for a time, they are invisible, and don't "offend" the "majority" community. That is, until they become carge enough to become a problem.

Far better for immigrants to become true Americans (or Canadians). Khadr and Arer are certainly not people that anyone would consider Canadians.

Right on. Canada's official multicult. policy only encourages people to stay apart rather then becoming Canadian. We can and do accept different cultures, but that doesn't mean we should have to give up ours.

[Bonam]

I don't understand why people say this. I live in an Vancouver which is an incredibly diverse and see no evidence that cultures are segragating.

Ever been down by Crystal Mall? Or how about the whole city of Richmond, a.k.a. New Hong Kong. Not that I have anything against these places or the people there, in fact, most of my friends in Vancouver are Chinese, but there's definitely some seperation going on.

[Riverwind]

Ever been down by Crystal Mall? Or how about the whole city of Richmond, a.k.a. New Hong Kong.

A lot of people of Chinese decent live in Richmond but so do a lot of people from other ethnic groups (70% of Richmond residents are not Chinese). Richmond is a multi-ethnic city that works very well - it is only 'new Hong Kong' to those with views coloured by prejudice (i.e. it not the number of Chinese that are the problem it is the whites that automatically assume that ghetto exists when they see too many non-white faces in one place).

I am still waiting to see if this 'multi-culturalism does not work' myth has any evidence to support it.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Riverwind

[BC_chick]

Are you saying that allowing immigration and multiculturalism are the same thing?

Nothing of the sort. I did not state my opinion about multiculturalism vs. immigration, or assimilation vs. integration for that matter.

I did give my opinion about something, but evidently you missed it.

I'll give you a hint - it started with a Pierre and ended with a Trudeau.

-b

[M.Dancer]

I consider "multiculturalism" to be the sanctioning of groups segregating themselves rather than joining the nation as a whole.

I don't. Where as the "melting pot" is sometimes more of a crucible, multiculturalism attemts to promote diversity (but not separation) and to alloy cultures to one another.

You should come out to Toronto for the Dragon Boat races........

[ScottSA]

I consider "multiculturalism" to be the sanctioning of groups segregating themselves rather than joining the nation as a whole.

I don't. Where as the "melting pot" is sometimes more of a crucible, multiculturalism attemts to promote diversity (but not separation) and to alloy cultures to one another.

You should come out to Toronto for the Dragon Boat races........

I love these bumper sticker metaphorical cliches you keep tossing out. How do you propose "alloying" Sharia to common law, or Jamaican druglords to law abiding society? You might as well try to mix oil and water. And of course you need to wave the happy happy "cultural diversity" flag in the form of "dragon boat races." How about we celebrate the cultural diversity of Asian street gangs, Vietnamese grow-ops, and Sikh terrorism instead? They are at least as prevalent as "colourful street festivals"...

[guyser]

And of course you need to wave the happy happy "cultural diversity" flag in the form of "dragon boat races." How about we celebrate the cultural diversity of Asian street gangs, Vietnamese grow-ops, and Sikh terrorism instead? They are at least as prevalent as "colourful street festivals"...

Ah but lets celebrate "whitey" cultural diversity of serial killers , corporate fraud artist , boiler room ops.

Ooops...tit for tat. Guess that wasn't planned.

[Hollus]

I'm not sure, but I'd start with someone who, when asked their nationality, answers "I'm Canadian", not, I'm Jamaican followed by hyphen, etc.

Just last night I witnessed an argument between two third generation Canadians where one of them claimed to be 'Canadian' and the other claimed to be 'German'. Knowing both of these people it was clear that the first person was full of nationalistic pride and held contempt for those who did not identify with his ethnocentrism. The second person was simply recognizing their cultural ancestry and in doing so, was subjected to berating comments for lack of patriotism and for identifying with a Country which the first person emphatically described as being inferior. (It was a little ironic how the first persons blind nationalism had him making condemnations of Germans as domineering Nazis, when he was clearly much more compatible as a Hitler youth than the person he was attacking).

People put alot of wieght in words like 'Canadian', 'German', and 'Multiculturalism', but these words mean many different things to many different people. If your taking issue with someone over the their use of words without having taken the time to understand they're intended meaning your interpretation will be irrational.

[ScottSA]

And of course you need to wave the happy happy "cultural diversity" flag in the form of "dragon boat races." How about we celebrate the cultural diversity of Asian street gangs, Vietnamese grow-ops, and Sikh terrorism instead? They are at least as prevalent as "colourful street festivals"...

Ah but lets celebrate "whitey" cultural diversity of serial killers , corporate fraud artist , boiler room ops.

Ooops...tit for tat. Guess that wasn't planned.

I take it those scam emails I get from Africa are really from Whitey? Lame...try again.

[guyser]

I take it those scam emails I get from Africa are really from Whitey? Lame...try again.

Oops again.....they were from boiler rooms here in Toronto, at least likely they were.Here read this.....

http://canadaonline.about.com/library/weekly/aa071401a.htm

I guess in your neighbourhood you have never heard of the proliferation of telephone/internet scams that are prolific in Canada? We are a haven for that type of fraud.

But if nothing you are consistent.

Whitey doesnt commit crime, get into gangs, traffic in narcotics......well at least your version doesn't, only brown skinned people (caucasians whaaa..?) ones with narrow eyes and all that. Lovely world you think you live in.

[Hollus]

I consider "multiculturalism" to be the sanctioning of groups segregating themselves rather than joining the nation as a whole.

I don't. Where as the "melting pot" is sometimes more of a crucible, multiculturalism attemts to promote diversity (but not separation) and to alloy cultures to one another.

You should come out to Toronto for the Dragon Boat races........

I love these bumper sticker metaphorical cliches you keep tossing out. How do you propose "alloying" Sharia to common law, or Jamaican druglords to law abiding society? You might as well try to mix oil and water. And of course you need to wave the happy happy "cultural diversity" flag in the form of "dragon boat races." How about we celebrate the cultural diversity of Asian street gangs, Vietnamese grow-ops, and Sikh terrorism instead? They are at least as prevalent as "colourful street festivals"...

Sharia law can be 'alloyed' with Canadian law just as Jewish and Catholic law have been through faith-based arbitration. This does not mean women will be stoned in public for adultery. Jamaican druglords, Asian street gangs, Vietnamese grow-ops have alloyed quite well with our criminal culture. Are you upset because the grow-op on your street is not run by Hells Angels? Pissed off because your business is being extorted by Asian gangs rather than Italian ones? You would like to be mugged by Native street kids instead of Jamacian street kids? Love how you distinguish crime by the ethnicity of those who commit it.

[guyser]

Love how you distinguish crime by the ethnicity of those who commit it.

Yes well, at least true colours are emerging.

[ScottSA]

I take it those scam emails I get from Africa are really from Whitey? Lame...try again.

Oops again.....they were from boiler rooms here in Toronto, at least likely they were.Here read this.....

http://canadaonline.about.com/library/weekly/aa071401a.htm

The tactic of finding one counterexample and trying to disprove a rule is facile at best.

The 419 scam originated in the early 1980s as the oil-based economy of Nigeria went downhill. Several unemployed university students first used this scam as a means of manipulating business visitors interested in shady deals in the Nigerian oil sector before targeting businessmen in the west, and later the wider population. Early variants were often sent via letter, fax, or even Telex. The spread of email and easy access to email-harvesting software made the cost of sending scam letters through the Internet extremely cheap. In the 2000s, the 419 scam has spurred imitations from other locations in Africa and Eastern Europe.

The number "419" refers to the article of the Nigerian Criminal Code (part of Chapter 38: "Obtaining Property by false pretences; Cheating") dealing with fraud.[3] The American Dialect Society has traced the term "419 fraud" back to 1992.[4]

The advance fee fraud is a derivation of a much older scam dating back to 1588 in the form of a Spanish Prisoner scam.[5] The fictitious prisoner would promise to share non-existent treasure with the person who would send them money to bribe their guards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_fee_fraud