Islam Can Be Constructive and Not Violent

[guyser]

The tactic of finding one counterexample and trying to disprove a rule is facile at best.

A rule? What rule, or is it the "scottsa of rules "? Subtitled , " I pull this out of my nether regions when all is lost"

Come on scottsa, its apparent, you proposed that the emails are from Africa , and I showed they could very well not be , and in fact could be from right here in TO.

So how do you know they are from Africa ? You dont, and wont admit it. But thats ok, your insecurities have been well established around here.

Oh and I had to edit.......Wiki....now who was it that chastised anyone for using Wiki....I seem to recall it was...oh yeah, it was scottsa. Are you the same guy?

Hello pot...hows things?

Edited July 25, 2007 by guyser

[ScottSA]

The tactic of finding one counterexample and trying to disprove a rule is facile at best.

A rule? What rule, or is it the "scottsa of rules "? Subtitled , " I pull this out of my nether regions when all is lost"

Come on scottsa, its apparent, you proposed that the emails are from Africa , and I showed they could very well not be , and in fact could be from right here in TO.

So how do you know they are from Africa ? You dont, and wont admit it. But thats ok, your insecurities have been well established around here.

Oh and I had to edit.......Wiki....now who was it that chastised anyone for using Wiki....I seem to recall it was...oh yeah, it was scottsa. Are you the same guy?

Hello pot...hows things?

Are you speaking English or in tongues at the moment? If you are trying to say what I think you're trying to say, you're making the same silly equivalence argument as when you juxtapose a couple of abortion clinic killings against thousands of Islamic bombings in order to claim Christianity is no different from Islam. Silliness not worthy of debate.

[guyser]

Are you speaking English or in tongues at the moment? If you are trying to say what I think you're trying to say, you're making the same silly equivalence argument as when you juxtapose a couple of abortion clinic killings against thousands of Islamic bombings in order to claim Christianity is no different from Islam. Silliness not worthy of debate.

Funny, shown that you are at least factually full of it and this goobledygook is your counter ?

I never have juxtaposed abortion killing clinics against Islamic bombings to Christianity being no diff from Islam.

Now you are really reaching. And you want to talk about silly equivalence.

I cant even say nice try to this one.

[ScottSA]

Are you speaking English or in tongues at the moment? If you are trying to say what I think you're trying to say, you're making the same silly equivalence argument as when you juxtapose a couple of abortion clinic killings against thousands of Islamic bombings in order to claim Christianity is no different from Islam. Silliness not worthy of debate.

Funny, shown that you are at least factually full of it and this goobledygook is your counter ?

I never have juxtaposed abortion killing clinics against Islamic bombings to Christianity being no diff from Islam.

Now you are really reaching. And you want to talk about silly equivalence.

I cant even say nice try to this one.

Then exactly what are you saying? That 4 people were arrested in TO ands therefore African scam letters are not African scam letters? Did you read the article you linked to? Did you see this?

The RCMP acknowledged the help of the new government of Nigeria and the Central Bank of Nigeria in fighting this fraud.

Why do you suppose the Nigerian government was involved? Just because? Do you suppose the names of the perps where Charles, Helga, and Franz? Or is it more likely they were African in origin?

[guyser]

Then exactly what are you saying? That 4 people were arrested in TO ands therefore African scam letters are not African scam letters? Did you read the article you linked to? Did you see this?

The RCMP acknowledged the help of the new government of Nigeria and the Central Bank of Nigeria in fighting this fraud.

Why do you suppose the Nigerian government was involved? Just because? Do you suppose the names of the perps where Charles, Helga, and Franz? Or is it more likely they were African in origin?

Four arrested, and they said 30-40 over a couple of years. It went on for ten years in Toronto , you do the math.

I cant believe I have to tell you this but, an African scam letter does not mean it came from Africa. Did you know there are African Canadians and African Americans who have never been in Africa?

Ponzi schemes abound in this country , but ponzi is an Italian name , so do all the ponzi schemes come from Italy?

The perps could have been named Charles for sure as it is quite a common name, Helga and Franz maybe not so much , but umm....is there a point to that?

[jbg]

And of course you need to wave the happy happy "cultural diversity" flag in the form of "dragon boat races." How about we celebrate the cultural diversity of Asian street gangs, Vietnamese grow-ops, and Sikh terrorism instead? They are at least as prevalent as "colourful street festivals"...

Ah but lets celebrate "whitey" cultural diversity of serial killers , corporate fraud artist , boiler room ops.

Ooops...tit for tat. Guess that wasn't planned.

What %-tage of "whitey" consists of

1. serial killers;
   
2. boiler room ops; or
   
3. corporate fraud artist
   

What % of immigrants in these groups:

1. Asians and/or Jamaicans are involved in street gangs;
   
2. Vietnamese are involved in "grow-ops"; or
   
3. Sikhs are involved in terror
   

More to the point, what % of the non-involved people in those groups condemn and/or assist in prosecuting the offenders? It seems to me that many prosecutors of white serial killers, corporate fraud artists or boiler-room operators are also white, and one doesn't see the white community supporting or enabling that kind of activity.

[jbg]

Sharia law can be 'alloyed' with Canadian law just as Jewish and Catholic law have been through faith-based arbitration. This does not mean women will be stoned in public for adultery.

No, but women may lose important rights with regard to divorces if forced to comply with Sharia.

[jbg]

Are you speaking English or in tongues at the moment?

He's speaking the first official language, Canadian, a variant of Chretienese or Dionian.

[ScottSA]

The perps could have been named Charles for sure as it is quite a common name, Helga and Franz maybe not so much , but umm....is there a point to that?

Yes, but the point whizzed by so far above you that there was almost no danger of it being imbedded in your head.

[Black Dog]

It depends, however, on integration, as opposed to multiculturalism.

I'm interested in knowing how, precisely, the official policy of multicultralism in Canada promotes the formation of ethnic enclaves. Given that the formation of ethnic enclaves is as old as immigration itself (hence the proliferation of Chinatowns, Little Italys, and other ethnic havens even-gasp!-in the confines of the great melting pot of the U.S. of A.), I'm pretty certain the connection is minor at best.

[guyser]

What %-tage of "whitey" consists of

1. serial killers;
   
2. boiler room ops; or
   
3. corporate fraud artist
   

What % of immigrants in these groups:

1. Asians and/or Jamaicans are involved in street gangs;
   
2. Vietnamese are involved in "grow-ops"; or
   
3. Sikhs are involved in terror
   

More to the point, what % of the non-involved people in those groups condemn and/or assist in prosecuting the offenders? It seems to me that many prosecutors of white serial killers, corporate fraud artists or boiler-room operators are also white, and one doesn't see the white community supporting or enabling that kind of activity.

The point I was making was a counterpoint to the ridiculous statement that scottsa intimated and that being that all Jamaicans are in gangs , all Vietnamese are in grow ops and so on.

They are not and he knows it, as I do and you do.

He said the same thing elsewhere about lead flying around at cultural festivals. It really is laughable that someone posts that. Thus the equally laughable, or call it dumb, statement that I posted.

As for your point about "enabling" , I would on first blush think it to be about the same, but marginally tilted towards the non-white community. They have their reasons for mistrust, right or wrong, as do the whte community that sits back and does not report crime that occurs behind the scenes.

Edited July 26, 2007 by guyser

[jbg]

Given that the formation of ethnic enclaves is as old as immigration itself (hence the proliferation of Chinatowns, Little Italys, and other ethnic havens even-gasp!-in the confines of the great melting pot of the U.S. of A.), I'm pretty certain the connection is minor at best.

But at least in New York, Chinatown and Little Italy are not "no-go" zones. Also, many of their youngsters "graduate" to areas outside the enclaves.

Not certain how many Somali youngsters in Toronto do the same.

[guyser]

The perps could have been named Charles for sure as it is quite a common name, Helga and Franz maybe not so much , but umm....is there a point to that?

Yes, but the point whizzed by so far above you that there was almost no danger of it being imbedded in your head.

No no , its just that you are a lousy shot.

It is you that missed the point. And that is you have no idea that the scams came from Nigeria do you ?

You asked me if the emails are really from whitey. I replied yes in fact they very well could be, and provided a cite.

Careful,you have already shot yourself once today.

(editted to remove needless words)

Edited July 26, 2007 by guyser

[jbg]

As for your point about "enabling" , I would on first blush think it to be about the same, but marginally tilted towards the non-white community. They have their reasons for mistrust, right or wrong, as do the whte community that sits back and does not report crime that occurs behind the scenes.

Probably a lot more than a little more tilted. I am pretty sure that some of the prosecutors of Meyer Kahane were Jewish, and Rudolph Giuliani, as U.S. Attorney prosecuted many Italian mobsters. In fact, that was his springboard to the mayorlty of NYC and possibly to the position of POTUS.

[ScottSA]

The perps could have been named Charles for sure as it is quite a common name, Helga and Franz maybe not so much , but umm....is there a point to that?

Yes, but the point whizzed by so far above you that there was almost no danger of it being imbedded in your head.

No no , its just that you are a lousy shot.

It is you that missed the point. And that is you have no idea that the scams came from Nigeria do you ?

You asked me if the emails are really from whitey. I replied yes in fact they very well could be, and provided a cite.

Careful,you have already shot yourself once today.

(editted to remove needless words)

Lol...well, you keep thinking I've shot myself, and I'll keep chortling at you. Yes, I'm sure the Nigerian government is only involved because of...umm...well I don't really know. Perhaps you can shed some light on why Nigeria might be involved in this arrest in Canada?

[guyser]

Perhaps you can shed some light on why Nigeria might be involved in this arrest in Canada?

Okay, hang on , you moved the goalposts.

Ok,Nigeria could be involved for all the reasons we both dont know. So what?

Again, you asked if "whitey" sent them. And you were shown that they very well could have. And you have since deflected.

Edited July 26, 2007 by guyser

[Melanie_]

Maybe the Nigerian government was involved because the emails in effect say they are defrauding the Nigerian government (at least the ones I've gotten), and they investigated to see if this was true. That doesn't negate the possibility that the emails originated in Canada, or anywhere else for that matter.

Back to the original post, its good to see that Islamic moderates are speaking up and being recognized. They aren't all terrorists, which is something many people have a difficult time wrapping their heads around.

[ScottSA]

Perhaps you can shed some light on why Nigeria might be involved in this arrest in Canada?

Okay, hang on , you moved the goalposts.

Ok,Nigeria could be involved for all the reasons we both dont know. So what?

Again, you asked if "whitey" sent them. And you were shown that they very well could have. And you have since deflected.

I'm not moving the goalposts, I'm quoting from the article you supplied. How many "Whitey" Nigerians do you know? Yeah, it's possible that the RCMP cooperated with the Nigerian government to arrest some Whiteys in TO, but do you really believe that? More important, are you willing to entrench yourself even deeper in this ridiculous position by continuing to defend it?

[guyser]

Yeah, it's possible that the RCMP cooperated with the Nigerian government to arrest some Whiteys in TO, but do you really believe that?

What now the reporter is lying? Yes I believe that. Want to talk about the 30-40 they arrested too? Although the country arrested in is not made apparent.

More important, are you willing to entrench yourself even deeper in this ridiculous position by continuing to defend it?

Umm you are defending the position that they "were African emails" de facto.

I say they could very well not be, with a cite, and the cite shows you to be wrong.

Again, you said absolute, I said good chance not.

I cannot spell it out any clearer. Entrench that?

[Black Dog]

But at least in New York, Chinatown and Little Italy are not "no-go" zones. Also, many of their youngsters "graduate" to areas outside the enclaves.

Not certain how many Somali youngsters in Toronto do the same.

Your premise was clearly stated:

"I consider "multiculturalism" to be the sanctioning of groups segregating themselves rather than joining the nation as a whole."

There are countless examples of groups segregating themselves (rather than joining the nation as a whole) that occure in the abscence of any multicultural policies (also, you've offered no evidence of how multicultralism "sanctions this practice). In fact, the formation of ethnic enclaves seems to be a natural and almost inevitable occurrance when minority groups enter a foreign culture (further to my examples above, the South African Boers or members of the British Raj weren't exactly known for their willingness to mingle with the majority). In other words, blaming multicultralism is a total red herring, as is the above reference to "'no-go' zones" and cultural mobility.

(I would also ask how one would enforce a policy of mandatory mingling, though it would be funny to see ScottSA's reaction if government policy to promote integration landed a family of dusky immigrants next door to him.)

Edited July 26, 2007 by Black Dog

[ScottSA]

(I would also ask how one would enforce a policy of mandatory mingling, though it would be funny to see ScottSA's reaction if government policy to promote integration landed a family of dusky immigrants next door to him.)

One wouldn't, which is why we ought to stop immigration, since such mingling is not occuring. Oh, and I had quite a few dusky neighbours when I lived in New Delhi, so you can stuff your lilly white liberal chortling.

[jbg]

(I would also ask how one would enforce a policy of mandatory mingling, though it would be funny to see ScottSA's reaction if government policy to promote integration landed a family of dusky immigrants next door to him.)

Cut the subsidies for "cultural pride" and mandate that all schoolchildren learn English and French. Most importantly, when in school, they should not be permitted to talk to their peers in any language other than Canadian, English or French.

[Black Dog]

Cut the subsidies for "cultural pride" and mandate that all schoolchildren learn English and French. Most importantly, when in school, they should not be permitted to talk to their peers in any language other than Canadian, English or French.

That doesn't address how you'd prevent ethnic enclaves from starting up in the first place. And that joke about Canadians not speaking English is really old. Time for some new material.

[ScottSA]

Cut the subsidies for "cultural pride" and mandate that all schoolchildren learn English and French. Most importantly, when in school, they should not be permitted to talk to their peers in any language other than Canadian, English or French.

That doesn't address how you'd prevent ethnic enclaves from starting up in the first place.

You can't. Not in a free society. You can certainly stop subsidizing it, but you can't stop people from gathering with whoever they want to gether with, and the fact that people do gather with people who are like them speaks ominously of the future of integration where visible minorities are concerned. The only solution is to stop immigration in hopes that critical masses have not eyt been reached.

[jbg]

And that joke about Canadians not speaking English is really old. Time for some new material.

What is Dion speaking then?