What must we do to protect our White culture?

kimmy · July 10, 2007

I will take this opportunity to again voice my opinion that Canadians *love* multiculturalism as long as it's confined to funny hats, tasty food, wacky dancing, and that sort of thing. Superficial stuff.
Canadians are far less enthusiastic about multiculturalism if one understands it to include less superficial aspects of culture.

I think that very few Canadians are accepting of, for instance, Sharia law, or the kind of contempt for women seen in some cultures, or the marital practices of the Bountiful Mormons, or that kind of stuff.

Canadians enthusiasm for multiculturalism dims considerably once you're past the funny hats and pizza stage.

No I think Canadians love for multiculturalism goes far beyond superficial stuff. Its easy to vilify a culture by focusing on the dark (and often misunderstood) corners of it. To hold these examples you mention as representative of the culture as a whole is akin to holding white supremicists as representative of western culture.

Ok, what do you see beyond the superficial that you can point to as an example of a value immigrants have brought here that Canadians have embraced?

And, I'd like to point out that in many cultures, the lack of respect for women is not something that's hidden away in a dark little corner. It's front and center. And of great importance to approximately have of the population?

There was also a thread discussing an interview with some young Muslim men in Sweden who had appalling attitudes toward white women. I don't have time right now, but I'm sure that others on the board might remember them. Or try the forum search button.

Again, a few horrible examples are used in an attempt to vilify a whole culture. The same cheap tactic could be used on western culture.

And it usually is. It seems to me that whenever a white person intentionally harms a non-white person, it's never just an isolated jerk or an isolated incident. It seems like it's described as "an example of the underlying racism in our society".

And maybe it is. I don't discount the possibility that sometimes when an immigrant gets beat up, it might be the end result of a kid who grew up hearing his dad grumble every day about how it's the immigrants' fault that he couldn't get the job at the GM factory. Or the result of hearing about terrorism on the news every day. I certainly recognize the possibility.

And think one should likewise recognize that maybe hearing from your Imam or your dad every day about how those other women are whores with inferior morals might likewise bring a *cultural* aspect to incidents that one might wish to dismiss as just a bad apple going rogue.

This is somewhat where I step off the parade route too. To me, it means the outstanding tradition of freedoms and democracy and human decency that we've inherited and expanded upon.

And to expand on those further we must build bridges to other cultures without the demand that they conform to what is on our side (ofcousrse Im not speaking in terms of criminal law within our country). Yes some of these cultures have issues to deal with that our culture may have already addressed but that doesnt mean we should be self-righteous and exclusive. We need to build a cultural consciousness that recognizes the good in other cultures as much as we recognizes the good in our own.

And what worthwhile elements of other cultures do you see that we might add to our own that would "expand on our tradition of freedoms"?

-k

cybercoma · July 10, 2007

Ok, what do you see beyond the superficial that you can point to as an example of a value immigrants have brought here that Canadians have embraced?
And, I'd like to point out that in many cultures, the lack of respect for women is not something that's hidden away in a dark little corner. It's front and center. And of great importance to approximately have of the population?

Recent research has shown that altruism and morality may be innate. As a result, the values you presume can be learned and taught, may be part of our nature already.

I suggest that religious morality and culture are being confused in most conversations on this forum. When you think of pop culture in the United States, you certainly don't think of the religious leanings of American people. When you think of the culture of England, it's not the morality and values of the society we're talking about.

Religious morality has decimated any sort of rational morality in other cultures. This is why families can murder their girls for seeing people of another religion and the authorities turn a blind eye to it. They feel they are justified before God to carry out these things. This is why doctor, thinking he's doing the right thing, can deny a rape victim's request for the morning after pill. This is why a mohel in New York can kill a baby by infecting it with herpes* when he drew blood from the foreskin with his mouth during a circumcision (an unnecessary surgical modification of the human body).

People know that murder is wrong, but religion has allowed them to justify it and has served to confuse our natural morality. People know that hurting another person physically or emotionally is wrong, but religion has allowed them to justify that when it comes to homosexuals, women and people of other beliefs.

Having religious doctrine and dogma taught to you from birth, demanding unwavering faith in those ideas and insisting that anyone who doesn't believe is either immoral or deserving of contempt, will completely destroy a person's ability to find their rational morality, especially when there is fear of horrifying punishment for eternity after death.

And think one should likewise recognize that maybe hearing from your Imam or your dad every day about how those other women are whores with inferior morals might likewise bring a *cultural* aspect to incidents that one might wish to dismiss as just a bad apple going rogue.

Again this is not a societal culture. When it's coming from an Imam it's religious dogma, instilled in people from childhood and reinforced throughout their life.

It's much easier to break away from your father's way of thinking when you reach the age of reason, since dad's not going to punish you with everlasting torment in the afterlife.

Problem is, otherwise reasonable adults believe in the afterlife and have their moral judgments bastardized by religion because they're taught from a very early age that they are going to be punished by God for not following his ways.

Look at those bishops in England for example. Although most rational people would look at them as being nuts for declaring the floods as being God's punishment for a society that refuses to discriminate against homosexuals, you know there's a portion of the world's population stopped and said, "maybe we are being punished by God." Furthermore, there were probably individuals that thought that and now believe it is morally "right" to fight for discrimination against homosexuals because there's no law greater than God and they do not want to punished by Him anymore.

Religious teachings and dogma are making otherwise good people do evil things. They think they're trying to do what's right, but they've been taught from infancy that there's this supernatural entity that watches your every move and controls the eternity of your afterlife. It's just as ridiculous as witchcraft and voodoo, but because it's so prolific and taught from birth, it's acceptable. Furthermore, we protect the right for people to spread this nonsense with religious rights and freedoms.

So, is it cultural? I say no. I say it's religious and in some nations, religion IS the culture, they're inseperable. If we can just educate people to the point where they see they don't need religion, I truly think this world will be a much better place.

*

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/26/nyregion...=rssnyt&emc=rss

cybercoma · July 10, 2007

As far as race is concerned, this thread is ridiculous. How do you define "WHITE" culture? The colour of a person's skin does not define their "culture". Having a problem with discriminating against women and homosexuals and having a problem with street crime are fine, but to define them as a cultural difference between the races is idiotic and just plain racist. All things that are unacceptable should be unacceptable regardless of the race of the person doing it.

jefferiah · July 10, 2007

I think it would help from a definitional perspective to take the "white" out and transplant "Anglo-Saxon." It would also help avoid the tiresome PC attacks that will no doubt ensue momentarly.

Why eliminate "white" to replace it with Anglo-Saxon? C'mon, let's call a spade a spade.

Well, although I am not really concerned about white culture, I have to ask would you say the same thing if he was a black man trying to preserve and promote African American culture. That's the thing, it's ok for anybody but a white person to say these kinds of things. No one would call an African American pride fest a spade, right?

When Halle Berry says "black children belong with black mothers" in "Losing Isaiah" were you as outraged as you would be if you heard someone saying the vice versa?

Personally I dont think you have to protect anything, you just have to be it.

Leafless · July 10, 2007

As far as race is concerned, this thread is ridiculous. How do you define "WHITE" culture? The colour of a person's skin does not define their "culture". Having a problem with discriminating against women and homosexuals and having a problem with street crime are fine, but to define them as a cultural difference between the races is idiotic and just plain racist. All things that are unacceptable should be unacceptable regardless of the race of the person doing it.

The colour of a persons skin does define their culture, i.e. in China, being yellow, means being 100% associated with the Chinese culture.

In Canada I purposely chose 'White culture' to define what Canada's culture really is, being primarily a majority White country since its creation with cultural traditions basically formed around a capitalistic freer society.

Do ethnic minorities count? Sure they do, but in many cases cannot be associated with Canada's basic Western culture, since they adhere to their own culture in a multicultural Canada and previously were not around in any great numbers to be able to change the direction of Canada's cultural traditions and to this day their numbers cannot change Canada's cultural direction without of course problematic and discriminatory government intervention.

You have to be an outright moron to associate racism to what is being said in this thread relating to root problem being corrupt cultural policies and and irresponsible, unaccountable immigration policies that are culturally and socially wrecking Canada.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Leafless

Leafless · July 10, 2007

It is a shame that Leafless himself casts such a dark shadow over this thread, when a number of interesting points have been made by several other people. Sadly, what worthwhile discussion this topic has created (and there was some) is just completely overshadowed.
-k

I am addressing the root problem in which to this time, no one has suggested, (your favourite line Kimmy) what White Canada can do to alleviate the out of control cultural and immigration actions of the federal government.

I am particular targeting the cultural infatuated Liberal government for creating this mess.

One of my primary suggestions would be immediate implementation of electoral reform to counteract the current corrupt 'first past the post' system and secondly, the use of referendums relating to important government decisions in which government have no business making with the participation of the citizens of Canada.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Leafless

Leafless · July 10, 2007

I am liberal, but I am not a socialist.

Then your not a Liberal.

The rest of your doctored idiotic post is not worth replying to.

jdobbin · July 10, 2007

Well, although I am not really concerned about white culture, I have to ask would you say the same thing if he was a black man trying to preserve and promote African American culture. That's the thing, it's ok for anybody but a white person to say these kinds of things. No one would call an African American pride fest a spade, right?
When Halle Berry says "black children belong with black mothers" in "Losing Isaiah" were you as outraged as you would be if you heard someone saying the vice versa?

Personally I dont think you have to protect anything, you just have to be it.

I am unfamiliar with African American culture or what it is exactly.

Do you have any Canadian anecdotal references?

M.Dancer · July 10, 2007

One of my primary suggestions would be immediate implementation of electoral reform to counteract the current corrupt 'first past the post' system and secondly, the use of referendums relating to important government decisions in which they have no business making with the participation of the citizens of Canada.

Ah....so you want to give minorities more power....very sneaky.....and disallowing participation by citizens.....how...inscrutable are your ways

jefferiah · July 10, 2007

Well, although I am not really concerned about white culture, I have to ask would you say the same thing if he was a black man trying to preserve and promote African American culture. That's the thing, it's ok for anybody but a white person to say these kinds of things. No one would call an African American pride fest a spade, right?

When Halle Berry says "black children belong with black mothers" in "Losing Isaiah" were you as outraged as you would be if you heard someone saying the vice versa?

Personally I dont think you have to protect anything, you just have to be it.

I am unfamiliar with African American culture or what it is exactly.

Do you have any Canadian anecdotal references?

Dont play dumb.

M.Dancer · July 10, 2007

I am liberal, but I am not a socialist.

Then your not a Liberal.

The rest of your doctored idiotic post is not worth replying to.

Given that 99% of his post is your post, you're right.

Posit · July 10, 2007

The colour of a persons skin does define their culture...

So...I guess that white people can't have Christianity as part of their culture, right? You might recall that Jesus was a brown fella.

jefferiah · July 10, 2007

well not that it really matters anyways, but technically there are brown caucasians. Jewish people are not mongoloid, australoid, or negroid are they? Do you remember the Afghani girl with GREEN EYES on the National Geographic cover?

jefferiah · July 10, 2007

in the summer i have brown arms and neck. Iranians can be quite brown, but the root of the word Iran is Aryan.

jdobbin · July 10, 2007

Dont play dumb.

Seriously. I don't know all the aspects of African American culture in the U.S. or what it is really. It often seems linked to Africa as a continent but not its nations.

I think blacks in Canada have several different roots and there are many different cultural backgrounds. I'm no expert but it does seem different that the U.S.

M.Dancer · July 10, 2007

well not that it really matters anyways, but technically there are brown caucasians. Jewish people are not mongoloid, australoid, or negroid are they? Do you remember the Afghani girl with GREEN EYES on the National Geographic cover?

Quite right. Some people use caucasion to mean northern european white folk, but that's not what caucasian means in a scientific manner...as a matter of fact, scientifically the word is no longer used because the reality is that the ethnicities of peoples are so blurred it has no precise meaning.....especially since in it's original form, the caucasian family included scandenavians, iranians, chechens, French, turks, Tamils.....and even stretching the ethnological rubber band....australian aboriginals and the Ainu of Japan

Posit · July 10, 2007

I'm wondering if leafless wouldn't mind if we refined our discussion about White Culture to mean only those people with white skin, blue eyes and blond hair?

AndrewL · July 10, 2007

Simple question.
What must White Canadians do to protect our White cultural and Christian associated traditions, that have been ravished or undermined by Quebec culture, Aboriginal culture and immigrants and their imposing cultures?

Canadian streets are now full of ethnic foreigners, our hospitals are full of Islamic Muslim doctors and stores full of ethnic help and our English language being attacked by forces of government to impose the French language.

There is something very perverse about your idea that Aboriginal culture is undermining and imposing on our white christian culture of occupation.

Is it not the white christians that undermined and imposed on the Aboriginal culture?

Andrew

Leafless · July 10, 2007

One of my primary suggestions would be immediate implementation of electoral reform to counteract the current corrupt 'first past the post' system and secondly, the use of referendums relating to important government decisions in which they have no business making with the participation of the citizens of Canada.

Ah....so you want to give minorities more power....very sneaky.....and disallowing participation by citizens.....how...inscrutable are your ways

The last part of that paragraph should read: ' the use of referendums relating to important government decissions in which they have no buisness making WITHOUT the participation of the citizens of Canada.

Leafless · July 10, 2007

Simple question.

What must White Canadians do to protect our White cultural and Christian associated traditions, that have been ravished or undermined by Quebec culture, Aboriginal culture and immigrants and their imposing cultures?

Canadian streets are now full of ethnic foreigners, our hospitals are full of Islamic Muslim doctors and stores full of ethnic help and our English language being attacked by forces of government to impose the French language.

There is something very perverse about your idea that Aboriginal culture is undermining and imposing on our white christian culture of occupation.

Is it not the white christians that undermined and imposed on the Aboriginal culture?

Andrew

I basically talking cultural demands and cultural aggression and cultural indifference that is taking its toll on Canada and could eventually be the downfall of Canada as a country.

You are right the Whites have imposed on the Aboriginal culture in the same manner the British have imposed their will on France and subsequently conquered France on the 'Plains of Abraham'.

Culturally speaking all Canadians, Quebecers, Aboriginals and immigrants should have been initially given no other option than to conform to a single Canadian culture or go your separate ways.

Quebec and the Aboriginals have both demanded a recognition pertaining to independent societies but both have not been able to create a vibrant society of their own and now are forcing government to provide societies for them, independent politically from Canadian society but paid for by Canadian taxpayers.

Like I said previously this is basically the fault of culturally obsessed federal liberals, basically a Quebec political party.

Leafless · July 10, 2007

I'm wondering if leafless wouldn't mind if we refined our discussion about White Culture to mean only those people with white skin, blue eyes and blond hair?

Correct me if I am wrong.

Relating to the definition of 'White', means nothing more than one having light coloured skin.

Are you really in denial that the majority White Canadian culture has not been developed by Canadians with light coloured skin but rather Canadian culture has been dependent on skin colour other than light?

M.Dancer · July 10, 2007

I'm wondering if leafless wouldn't mind if we refined our discussion about White Culture to mean only those people with white skin, blue eyes and blond hair?

Correct me if I am wrong.

Correcting you when you are wrong is a 24/7 job. Ignoring you when you are wrong is easier but not nearly as entertaining as mocking you when you are wrong.....unfortunately no one has that much free time....

AndrewL · July 10, 2007

Simple question.

What must White Canadians do to protect our White cultural and Christian associated traditions, that have been ravished or undermined by Quebec culture, Aboriginal culture and immigrants and their imposing cultures?

Canadian streets are now full of ethnic foreigners, our hospitals are full of Islamic Muslim doctors and stores full of ethnic help and our English language being attacked by forces of government to impose the French language.

There is something very perverse about your idea that Aboriginal culture is undermining and imposing on our white christian culture of occupation.

Is it not the white christians that undermined and imposed on the Aboriginal culture?

Andrew

I basically talking cultural demands and cultural aggression and cultural indifference that is taking its toll on Canada and could eventually be the downfall of Canada as a country.

You are right the Whites have imposed on the Aboriginal culture in the same manner the British have imposed their will on France and subsequently conquered France on the 'Plains of Abraham'.

Culturally speaking all Canadians, Quebecers, Aboriginals and immigrants should have been initially given no other option than to conform to a single Canadian culture or go your separate ways.

Quebec and the Aboriginals have both demanded a recognition pertaining to independent societies but both have not been able to create a vibrant society of their own and now are forcing government to provide societies for them, independent politically from Canadian society but paid for by Canadian taxpayers.

Like I said previously this is basically the fault of culturally obsessed federal liberals, basically a Quebec political party.

Canada in general is just a weak clone of US culture. Its not like we have been able to create anything either.

A

Hollus · July 10, 2007

Ok, what do you see beyond the superficial that you can point to as an example of a value immigrants have brought here that Canadians have embraced?

Well, if we're talking of cultural integration I would point out philosophies such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism to name a few. Certainly new age spiritualism has deep roots in these. Yoga is from Hinduism.

And, I'd like to point out that in many cultures, the lack of respect for women is not something that's hidden away in a dark little corner. It's front and center. And of great importance to approximately have of the population?

I think cybercoma has done a far better job than I could in articulating this aspect of culture. I will add that there are feminist struggles for equality in other cultures just as there were in western cultures at the turn of the century. Women here in north america still do not have equal rights nor would I view our pop-culture as being respectful towards them.

And it usually is. It seems to me that whenever a white person intentionally harms a non-white person, it's never just an isolated jerk or an isolated incident. It seems like it's described as "an example of the underlying racism in our society".
And maybe it is. I don't discount the possibility that sometimes when an immigrant gets beat up, it might be the end result of a kid who grew up hearing his dad grumble every day about how it's the immigrants' fault that he couldn't get the job at the GM factory. Or the result of hearing about terrorism on the news every day. I certainly recognize the possibility.

And think one should likewise recognize that maybe hearing from your Imam or your dad every day about how those other women are whores with inferior morals might likewise bring a *cultural* aspect to incidents that one might wish to dismiss as just a bad apple going rogue.

Absolutely, these are examples of racism and hate. I don't think a society should be measured by the lowest denominator. I think media has the effect of portraying certain events as being more prevalent than they actually are. I know that by looking at my own multi cultural community there is no reason to believe that *cultural aspects* are to blame for the vast majority of violence.

And what worthwhile elements of other cultures do you see that we might add to our own that would "expand on our tradition of freedoms"?

Their presence in the quest for the higher potential of humanity. Values are held at an individual level with culture being the collective. I believe in the intrinsic good of humanity. I believe that to expand on 'the outstanding tradition of freedoms and democracy and human decency' we must as individuals make the transition from values of money and material excess to life and spiritual fulfillment, from relationships of domination to relationships of partnership, from a belief in our limitations to a belief in our possibilities, and from fearing our differences to rejoicing in our diversity.

jefferiah · July 10, 2007

Dont play dumb.

Seriously. I don't know all the aspects of African American culture in the U.S. or what it is really. It often seems linked to Africa as a continent but not its nations.

I think blacks in Canada have several different roots and there are many different cultural backgrounds. I'm no expert but it does seem different that the U.S.

Yes but you understand my meaning. I am saying that if there were someone talking about black culture and preserving it you probably would not get hot and bothered. I could be wrong and I would hope I am. But that is not likely the case.

I remember watching a talk show a few years ago and seeing a black guy on there saying he would only date white women cuz he just found the look more attractive. While talk shows are not the best source of information they are a good source of popular opinion. The audiences are populated with real people and their boos and claps reflect the general opinions of society. This black man was booed and many people took the mic to bash him, while some black people said he was turning his back on his brothers and sisters. But no one gets upset over the black people saying such things....imagine if a white man were to say he liked black women better...would you get up and say he should prefer his white brothers and sisters?