gc1765 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Realistically, sponsoring a race car probably won't change much in terms of climate change, because if the Conservatives didn't sponsor a car, someone else would have. BUT... This certainly doesn't look good on the Conservatives who are trying to be "green". What the heck were they thinking? I'd like to know which "advisor" came up with this idea...I have a feeling they will get canned pretty soon. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
madmax Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 When you are involved in motorsport, the trick is to find someone interested enough to pay for your ride. The oldest adage of how to have a million dollars racing, is to start out with 10 million dollars. I think any stock car racer who gets someone to pay for their ride in Canada deserves it. There will always be complainers that the CPC has too much money, or have blown their hard earned donation to something that is split between east/west and they have no interest in. I would like to see all parties involved in motorsport. But that is because I race. I do have a personel bias. For those worried about, oh, what if they lose, or what if they crash, probably is neither a spectator or isn't into the motorsport racing scene. If you don't race, you won't crash. Nor will you win. If you think its better to sit in the stands and have no one to cheer for vs, say a CPC car, well, it just isn't so. Or more importantly, for those who don't like the CPC, they will have a car to boo, and hope it loses. But really, it is about a driver, trying to make a living in a competitive sport that costs alot more to participate in then there are monetary rewards. People complain to much. Go to the track, and enjoy. And stop worrying about the beer stereotypes. I have been too close to many brawls in the CFL stands or the NHL stands to worry about the nonsense spoken here. Do I think it is wise for the CPC to sponsor a car. I don't really know if it's wise or not because I support racers Quote
gc1765 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 You can follow the results of this unscientific poll Here So far, Canadians aren't impressed with the idea, but it will be interesting to see how this poll turns out. I would have thought most people would agree it's a stupid idea. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
BC_chick Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Dear CPC supporters, As per your request, I have been trying my utmost to limit my tendency to compare the CPC with the GOP. I understand that this comparison is unpleasant to you given the sheer idiocy that presently leads the GOP, and as such, I have refrained from pointing out these similarities as of late. However, precious Steve has resorted once again to tactics which undermine my efforts to comply with your wishes. Consequently, I have no choice but to ask you, with all due respect, to acknowledge that there are more similarities between George and Steve than you would care to admit. I trust that my suggestion will be met with staunch disagreement and may even ultimately provoke a number of petty insults. My sincere apologies in advance, as I am merely voicing what I feel is indisputable. Should you have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to email your local CPC office as I will not be available for comment hereafter. Yours truly, BCC Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 ...However, precious Steve has resorted once again to tactics which undermine my efforts to comply with your wishes. Consequently, I have no choice but to ask you, with all due respect, to acknowledge that there are more similarities between George and Steve than you would care to admit. But why is it important to make any such comparisons at all? Is such analysis only limited to American foreign nationals, or is the rest of the world fair game as well? Shall we compare opposition leaders to other American "Georges" in another futile attempt to define them (e.g. Stephane Dion and John Kerry)? Is the Canadian political landscape so lacking in properties and textures as to be undefinable without American foils? If the CPC = GOP, then shall we conclude that the LPC = Democrats, complete with Howard (not John) Dean blessings and keynote speech? What is the nature of this political psychosis? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Bluth Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 You can follow the results of this unscientific poll Here So far, Canadians aren't impressed with the idea, but it will be interesting to see how this poll turns out. I would have thought most people would agree it's a stupid idea. Imagine that. Not a lot of NASCAR fans read the Globe and Mail. But I'm sure they decide how to vote based on what Globe readers tell them what to think. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
Mad_Michael Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 ...However, precious Steve has resorted once again to tactics which undermine my efforts to comply with your wishes. Consequently, I have no choice but to ask you, with all due respect, to acknowledge that there are more similarities between George and Steve than you would care to admit. But why is it important to make any such comparisons at all? Is such analysis only limited to American foreign nationals, or is the rest of the world fair game as well? Shall we compare opposition leaders to other American "Georges" in another futile attempt to define them (e.g. Stephane Dion and John Kerry)? Is the Canadian political landscape so lacking in properties and textures as to be undefinable without American foils? If the CPC = GOP, then shall we conclude that the LPC = Democrats, complete with John Dean blessings and keynote speech? What is the nature of this political psychosis? Are you referring to Howard Dean - the former Governor of Vermont and now Chair of the DNC? One can only wish Canada had more politicans of the calibre of Howard Dean (author of the 50-state strategy that played no small part in the Democratic victories in 2006). Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Are you referring to Howard Dean - the former Governor of Vermont and now Chair of the DNC?One can only wish Canada had more politicans of the calibre of Howard Dean (author of the 50-state strategy that played no small part in the Democratic victories in 2006). Yes, thank you for the correction. Can you imagine the contortions if a "GOP" member were keynote speaker at a CPC convention? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Mad_Michael Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 You can follow the results of this unscientific poll Here So far, Canadians aren't impressed with the idea, but it will be interesting to see how this poll turns out. I would have thought most people would agree it's a stupid idea. Since when does a political party need public approval or public opinion poll support to engage in self-interested advertising? If they want to waste their money, it is their perogative to do so - and none of my business. Why is this an issue? Who cares and why? Quote
gc1765 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Imagine that. Not a lot of NASCAR fans read the Globe and Mail. Which newspaper do you think NASCAR fans would read instead? But I'm sure they decide how to vote based on what Globe readers tell them what to think. No, I'm sure they'd rather decide how to vote based on what a race car tells them to think. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Mad_Michael Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Imagine that. Not a lot of NASCAR fans read the Globe and Mail. Which newspaper do you think NASCAR fans would read instead? See the OP. It would appear to be the Toronto Sun. Which of course explains why I've never heard of Canadian Nascar! Quote
gc1765 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Since when does a political party need public approval or public opinion poll support to engage in self-interested advertising? Considering that politics is all about public opinion, it's not a bad idea to want to get public approval for advertising. If most pepole think it's a bad idea, that kind of defeats the purpose of advertising. If they want to waste their money, it is their perogative to do so - and none of my business.Why is this an issue? Who cares and why? Absolutely. It's their money, they can waste it how they want. I'm just saying it's not a very smart move and will probably lose votes for the Conservatives, if anything. Just like their attack ads. Just goes to show that having a lot of money can actually be a disadvantage for the Conservatives. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 See the OP. It would appear to be the Toronto Sun.Which of course explains why I've never heard of Canadian Nascar! The OP links to a story by the Globe and Mail. Where does it say anything about the Sun? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Mad_Michael Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Since when does a political party need public approval or public opinion poll support to engage in self-interested advertising? Considering that politics is all about public opinion, it's not a bad idea to want to get public approval for advertising. If most pepole think it's a bad idea, that kind of defeats the purpose of advertising. You clearly don't understand the nature of advertising. Nobody cares if you like any given advertisement or not. All that matters is, 'does it work?' Indeed, more than a few successful advertising campaigns have been quite unpopular. If they want to waste their money, it is their perogative to do so - and none of my business.Why is this an issue? Who cares and why? Absolutely. It's their money, they can waste it how they want. I'm just saying it's not a very smart move and will probably lose votes for the Conservatives, if anything. Just like their attack ads. Just goes to show that having a lot of money can actually be a disadvantage for the Conservatives. I can't possibly see how sponsoring a race car in a series of races that less than 1% of the Canadian public will ever even hear about can possibly produce a negative externality for the Conservative Party. Everyone already knows that the Conservative Party is anti-global warming. And the enviromentalists/elitist socialist types are the only ones likely to be upset about it but they don't like the Conservative Party anyway so that's a moot point. Quote
gc1765 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Nobody cares if you like any given advertisement or not. All that matters is, 'does it work?' Indeed, more than a few successful advertising campaigns have been quite unpopular. If the Conservatives want to court the "green" vote, which they are trying to do, then the answer is no, it won't work. I can't possibly see how sponsoring a race car in a series of races that less than 1% of the Canadian public will ever even hear about can possibly produce a negative externality for the Conservative Party. Everyone already knows that the Conservative Party is anti-global warming. And the enviromentalists/elitist socialist types are the only ones likely to be upset about it but they don't like the Conservative Party anyway so that's a moot point. More than 1% of the Canadian public will read about this in the newspaper (but hey, if you think it's less than 1%, I don't see how much of a positive effect it could have). And most people don't think the Conservatives are anti-global warming. Polls show their public support on the environment is almost as high as the NDP or Liberals, and it's pretty clear they are trying to appeal to people on this issue. Sponsoring a race car is likely going to kill any support they have gained for the environment. Again, I have a feeling the Conservatives are going to look back on this and ask "what were we thinking?" Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Mad_Michael Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 If the Conservatives want to court the "green" vote, which they are trying to do, then the answer is no, it won't work. Conservatives courting the 'green' vote is absurd. They would be fools to waste their time. Polls show their public support on the environment is almost as high as the NDP or Liberals, and it's pretty clear they are trying to appeal to people on this issue. Actually, public support is almost as LOW as for the other parties. That is a rational reflection of the faith Canadians have in our political parties actually doing something about global-warming. Conservatives and NDP are the least likely to actually do something since both of these parties are beholden to the largest polluters in the country. It ain't gonna happen. Even the Liberal Party, with solid support for it is quite unlikely to actually do anything substantive on the issue. Until you can figure out how to address global-warming without actually interfering or inconveniencing Canadians, then the politicans are going to steer wide clear. Environmentalism has been on the horizon for a couple of decades now and there are some curious lessons here for politics. First and foremost, eve if every Canadian tells pollsters that the environment is the number one issue, they lie. Environmentalism has had ZERO impact on electoral politics. Indeed, actually being 'green' is probably a good way to be kicked out of office by those same voters who claim the environment is the most important issue. Suffice it to say that 'environmentalism' has not yet been proven to be anything except 'Flora MacDonald syndrome' so far at the ballot box. (For you young kids, Flora MacDonald ran for the Conservative party leadership back in 1976 - and was considered a popular favourite - until the first ballot when it was found that she had about 1/4 of the votes that were publicly declared in her favour. In other words, lots of delegates kept telling pollsters that they loved Flora and were going to vote for her - then didn't - this is the present case with environmentalism - everyone is for it - except when it comes time to vote). Quote
gc1765 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Posted June 19, 2007 Conservatives courting the 'green' vote is absurd. They would be fools to waste their time. Are you suggesting that Brian Mulroney is a fool? Or that the Conservatives are run by fools? Because, it's pretty clear that the Conservatives are in fact trying to court the "green" vote. What about the billions spent on greenhouse gas reduction? What about banning inefficient lightbulbs? Or replacing the environment minister because the public was not satisfied with her? But hey, don't take my word for it Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Ouch! . Even though I don't have much faith in online polls, these final poll results certainly don't look good for the Conservatives. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Michael Bluth Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Ouch! . Even though I don't have much faith in online polls, these final poll results certainly don't look good for the Conservatives. Did you expect anything else from a poll on the Globe and Mail web site? Nothing about the political views of their readers. Ask yourself one (or two) questions. How many NASCAR fans are Globe and Mail readers? How many Globe and Mail readers are NASCAR fans? Very good point on Politics with Don Newman. Harper should not, ever, consider a photo-op in the car. Anybody remember Dukakis in the tank? Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
gc1765 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Did you expect anything else from a poll on the Globe and Mail web site? Nothing about the political views of their readers. Ask yourself one (or two) questions. How many NASCAR fans are Globe and Mail readers? How many Globe and Mail readers are NASCAR fans? Again, I don't put too much faith into online polls...but still. It would be nice to see a more scientific poll. If this is how Canadians in general feel, it doesn't look good for the Conservatives. I'm not sure if you ever answered my question (perhaps I overlooked it): Which newspaper do NASCAR fans tend to read? Anyways, NASCAR fans are not the only voters. I'm sure a lot of people who read the globe and mail read this story and think that it shows the Conservatives to be hypocrites on the environment, and that could lose them votes. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Michael Bluth Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Again, I don't put too much faith into online polls...but still. It would be nice to see a more scientific poll. If this is how Canadians in general feel, it doesn't look good for the Conservatives. I'm not sure if you ever answered my question (perhaps I overlooked it): Which newspaper do NASCAR fans tend to read? Anyways, NASCAR fans are not the only voters. I'm sure a lot of people who read the globe and mail read this story and think that it shows the Conservatives to be hypocrites on the environment, and that could lose them votes. Probably papers with more resources devoted to NASCAR. Sun chain would fit the bill here. Not sure what that would be Nationally. Calling the Conservatives hypocritical over this one issue is ridiculous. The light bulb issue alone will save at least 1,000 times more in green house gases annually than one stock car being run. The Liberals didn't do this for three reasons. 1. Not smart enough. 2. Not enough money. 3. Too contemptuous of stock car fans. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
gc1765 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Calling the Conservatives hypocritical over this one issue is ridiculous.The light bulb issue alone will save at least 1,000 times more in green house gases annually than one stock car being run. Like I said in my original post, sponsoring a race car probably won't change anything in terms of climate change...but it does give the appearance that they don't care about the environment. I imagine this is probably why a lot of Globe and Mail readers, and that translates into a lot of voters, think it is a bad idea. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Michael Bluth Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Like I said in my original post, sponsoring a race car probably won't change anything in terms of climate change...but it does give the appearance that they don't care about the environment. I imagine this is probably why a lot of Globe and Mail readers, and that translates into a lot of voters, think it is a bad idea. There's more to Canada than just Globe and Mail readers. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
gc1765 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 There's more to Canada than just Globe and Mail readers. No kidding! But if every globe and mail reader thought this was hypocritical and decided not to vote for the Conservatives because of it, the Conservatives would be in trouble. (note: in order to avoid the potential for a strawman, I'm not saying every globe and mail reader is going to decide not to vote for the Conservatives because of this, but it's likely that many will) edit: I should also note that this story was not just reported in the globe and mail. It was reported in several other newspapers as well. Most people who follow the news closely would have probably heard about this by now, and some of them may be turned off by it. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Michael Bluth Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 edit: I should also note that this story was not just reported in the globe and mail. It was reported in several other newspapers as well. Most people who follow the news closely would have probably heard about this by now, and some of them may be turned off by it. You are right. Some might be turned off by this. This is why I think it is a good idea. Those who like NASCAR, like it a lot. Somebody who likes NASCAR is more likely to go out and vote Conservative, which I'm guessing their natural allegiance is anyways, rather than not bothering to vote. That is the demographic they are aiming at. Sure lots of Globe and Mail readers think this isn't a great idea. Some of them may be turned off by the idea. Ask yourself this question. How many are going to decide not to vote Conservative because of this one move? Among those who were seriously considering Conservative before the NASCAR deal. For that reason I see this as a net vote winner for the Conservatives. Jack Layton talking about the Conservatives sponsoring a bicycle race? Could this guy be any more out of touch with the Tim Horton's crowd. This move is all about solidifying the base. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
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