Explanations needed

[Mad_Michael]

post in error

[White Doors]

religion is used in the west to brainwash, as equally as it is in the ME.

Please note the present tense.

LOL

Dumb post of the day award.

congratulations kuzzkuzz

[Black Dog]

Did (do) they have cause to be "angry" with the butchers that killed 6,000,000 of them? Where are their suicide bombers? Where are the Americans attacking bazaars in Araby after September 11? Where's the anger of the non-Muslim world against Muslims? Instead of anger, you see the Michael Moores of the world prattling about "negotiations".

What really cracks me up is how, on the one hand, you try to use this point to show how everyone else is superior to Muslims because they don't use indiscriminate violence as a means to their ends, yet advocate indiscriminate violence be used against Muslims. So, is it that Muslims are too violent or that we aren't violent enough?

[AndrewL]

Seriously answer these questions for me. I am surprised this thread has not happend yet.

I will ask you one thing. Leave religions out of this debate. Let's get down to the nitty gritty on it.

Why do terrorists hate us?

Why do they hate freedom?

If any of you people can come up with some intelligent arguments as to the why, I would love to hear it. I am pretty damn sick of hearing 'All well they are terrorists, they hate us and freedom'.

WHY? NAME YOUR REASONS?

EDIT

It should read "The 'Why do terrorists hate us'."

Why did Hitler hate Jews? Why do whites hate blacks? Why does my friend hate cats? Why do i hate TV? Why do i hate all religions? Why do conservatives hate liberals? Why does the national post hate environmentalists? Why do islamicists hate the west?

I think its because in all these cases the people doing the hating perceive very strongly that they are being cheated by the people that are hated.

Hate usually leads to action.

Andrew

[JerrySeinfeld]

I'd like to contribute to this by suggesting a concept that I don't think alot of terror apologists grasp - and bear with me on this for a moment:

They think they're superior to us.

This is a completely foregin (pardon the pun) concept to alot of non-conservatives - they can't even fathom a world where other people - brown, "multi-cultural people" - people we are "supposed" to feel sorry for, and to clbrate once a year during "heritag days" in Canada, people from poorer counties, actually think we are scum - not even human.

I'm not sue why, but alot of people on the left seem to have this view that the west is superior to everywhere else on the globe. I know - it sounds contradictory to their general surface attitudes (emphasize SURFACE) of being more "sympathetic" to other cultures. But I really think it's a disguise - this "sympathy" for other cultures. Underneath is this underlying feeling that we are so much better (western civilizations) than everyone else - and that we wield an all powerful control over others. It's easy to be "snsitive" to other cultures when your idea of other cultures comes in the form of onc-a-year parads, diffrent kinds of food or the trusty brown sidekick in the "culturally correct" movie.

This left-wing view of world cultures is an "original Startrek" view of the wold: We are the powerful, tehcnologically advanced imperialists dominating all of thes other less fortunate un-advancd societies.

But what they don't factor in - and should - is the reality that, yes: admit it. Non-white people can hate too. And they can do it with more violence, agression and impunity than we ever dreamed possible in today's world. They can do it right out in their streets - in public. They can do it by dancing in the strets when people die. They can do it in their places of worship. Heck, nowadays in todays' culturally sensitive world" they can even do it in OUR streets in the west. How's that for cultural imperialism?

We keep whining on about how WE are the imprialists - but are we? Or is the cultural imperialism happening in reverse? Are we exporting OUR ideas to Islamic countries - or ar they exporting theirs to OUR countries?

Ask yourself - who would have more trouble on their hands- a woman weaing a miniskirt in Saudi Arabia? Or a woman wearing a hijab in Toronto? I think we all know the answer.

So in conclusion: Yes it is a reality that other cultures - non-white - non western ones, can hate even more visciously than we can. Not all Muslims do. But I can say this: the ones that don't certainly acquiesce to the ones that do. And that's a probem.

Why do they hate? Think of this. Think of you most frothing at the mouth consrvative in the USA. SOMeone who would shoot an abortion doctor. SOmeon who dosn't think women should vote. Someone who thinks his religion and culture should be the only one. That the othe cultures and religions are inferior. The left wing's WORST enemy. ANd anti-abortion, anti women's rights, racist.

Got that image? That is the mullah recruiting officr for your local terroist cell. Today's modern radical islamic trrosist is the model for intolerance.

So for the lefty who thinks all we ned to do is bring even MORE toleranc for thes people, the joke is on you.

[Argus]

Alright so this basic topic of why do 'they hate us' cannot be discussed without religion comming into play. I guess it is hard to get away from it.

It's just something that has been bothering me for a couple years. They why of the hate. The fringes of Islamic followers wanting to maintain control over their population through some form of Islamic Law. Wanting to spread that everywhere.

Just the fringes?

A Pakistani cabinet minister said today that the decision to knight Sir Salman Rushdie was a justification for suicide bombing, after the parliament in Islamabad condemned the honour as "blasphemous and insulting" to the world's Muslims.

The protests on the streets of Multan echo the angry demonstrations when The Satanic Verses was published in 1989

As MPs issued a demand for the award to be immediately withdrawn, the religious affairs minister, Mohammad Ejaz-ul-Haq, said: "The West always wonders about the root cause of terrorism. Such actions [giving Rushdie a knighthood] are the root cause of it.

Pakistani Cabinet minister says knighting Rushdie justifies suicide bombing

[Alexandra]

If Kuzad had bothered to look beyond the American bias logic would dictate that Bin laden would remain on the FBI's List until he is either captured alive or dead.

He is not even wanted by the FBI for 9/11.

If Bin laden is not wanted by the FBI why is he on the Most Wanted's Top Ten List as Most Wanted Terrorist?

On the various bios/studies of Bin laden nowhere is it stated that Bin laden was working for the U.S. in Afghanistan. Bosnia? Really .... where, when and how?

`

[betsy]

If Kuzad had bothered to look beyond the American bias logic would dictate that Bin laden would remain on the FBI's List until he is either captured alive or dead.

He is not even wanted by the FBI for 9/11.

If Bin laden is not wanted by the FBI why is he on the Most Wanted's Top Ten List as Most Wanted Terrorist?

On the various bios/studies of Bin laden nowhere is it stated that Bin laden was working for the U.S. in Afghanistan. Bosnia? Really .... where, when and how?

`

She simply spins as she goes. She deliberately lied.

[scribblet]

It seems there is a recalcitrance on the part of some to believe that religion plays a part in all of this hate and actions. Religious belief and belief that there is a reward in heaven explains this abominable behaviour, they are clearly swayed by an ideology that promises rewards in the afterlife. Does anyone believe that these people who condone it and persuade others to do, do it strictly for political reasons? It is more than apparant that much of the hatred stems from religious beliefs.

[ScottSA]

It seems there is a recalcitrance on the part of some to believe that religion plays a part in all of this hate and actions. Religious belief and belief that there is a reward in heaven explains this abominable behaviour, they are clearly swayed by an ideology that promises rewards in the afterlife. Does anyone believe that these people who condone it and persuade others to do, do it strictly for political reasons? It is more than apparant that much of the hatred stems from religious beliefs.

No, it stems from Islam. One cannot blame the myraid other religions which believe in an afterlife for the actions of those who do what they do in the name of Islam. You may as well blame the eating of tomatoes, since there's the same degree of correlation.

[scribblet]

It seems there is a recalcitrance on the part of some to believe that religion plays a part in all of this hate and actions. Religious belief and belief that there is a reward in heaven explains this abominable behaviour, they are clearly swayed by an ideology that promises rewards in the afterlife. Does anyone believe that these people who condone it and persuade others to do, do it strictly for political reasons? It is more than apparant that much of the hatred stems from religious beliefs.

No, it stems from Islam. One cannot blame the myraid other religions which believe in an afterlife for the actions of those who do what they do in the name of Islam. You may as well blame the eating of tomatoes, since there's the same degree of correlation.

I should have qualified the religion part, as I don't know of any other religion that condones suicide bombing.

[GostHacked]

If Kuzad had bothered to look beyond the American bias logic would dictate that Bin laden would remain on the FBI's List until he is either captured alive or dead.

He is not even wanted by the FBI for 9/11.

If Bin laden is not wanted by the FBI why is he on the Most Wanted's Top Ten List as Most Wanted Terrorist?

On the various bios/studies of Bin laden nowhere is it stated that Bin laden was working for the U.S. in Afghanistan. Bosnia? Really .... where, when and how?

`

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

Osama IS on the FBI's most wanted list. They really need to update the site to show and say he was behind the 9/11 attacks. You figure that information would be on the site. But no, he is only wanted for actions committed against Americans, OUTSITE of the United States. However, the CIA had disbanded the group hunting down OBL. So it is the CIA that is not very interested in OBL now, but he remains on the FBI list.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/05/...in1776250.shtml July 5, 2006.

(CBS/AP) The first head of the Central Intelligence Agency's Osama bin Laden-hunting unit tells CBS News that closing the unit was "a mistake" and "a questionable decision."

snip ...

It was reported by the New York Times Tuesday that the CIA has closed the unit that for a decade had the mission of hunting Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants.

Bin Laden was working with the Muhajedeen in Afghanistan. They had US backing during the 80's and 90's to fight off the Soviets.

......................

Scriblett

I should have qualified the religion part, as I don't know of any other religion that condones suicide bombing

Is it religion? Or people that wrongly interperet the religion? Does the religion itself actually condone this kind of behaviour? Suicide bombings? If so, for how long? Cite?

[jbg]

I should have qualified the religion part, as I don't know of any other religion that condones suicide bombing.

Why, Toronto Federation of Temple Youths (TIFTY) doesn't spend their time recruiting suicide jockeys and organizing horrific attacks?

[jbg]

....yet advocate indiscriminate violence be used against Muslims.

No, I advocate, as a first measure, targeted violence. What the left called "targeted assassinations" when Israel nailed butcher Yassin.

[betsy]

Is it religion? Or people that wrongly interperet the religion? Does the religion itself actually condone this kind of behaviour? Suicide bombings? If so, for how long? Cite?

Of course, it is religion itself that is actually behind this kind of behaviour!

Whether it is actually Islam's teachings or not, does not matter! It's not the point!

AND WHETHER THE LEADERS or whoever orders these people to become martyrs are true believers of a god or not, OR whether they (the leaders) are only using it to manipulate these suicide bombers, is till not the point!

For how long? Does it matter? No.

It still all boils down to RELIGION! FAITH! BELIEF!

THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THEIR RELIGION! FAITH! BELIEF!

And by they, I mean the actual suicide bombers who are laying their life for their god. That they are being duped or manipulated does not matter.

That these suicide bombers had fully accepted and believe the interpretations of bull that their leaders had given them, is what does matters.

If they believe that they'll get dwarves and virgins or sheeps or whatever as a divine reward in the afterlife in exchange for martyrdom - in the name of Allah - that's their faith!

Their willingness to die is driven by faith! THAT IS THE POINT!

The point is, they are doing these suicide bombings believing they are following and pleasing their god.

[scribblet]

Their willingness to die is driven by faith! THAT IS THE POINT!

The point is, they are doing these suicide bombings believing they are following and pleasing their god.

Exactly.

[Argus]

What happens when you devote your life to religion? Well, you don't get a lot else done.

We devote far too much attention to the middle east, a mostly stagnant region where almost nothing is created in science of the arts - excluding Israel, per capita patent production is 1/5th that of sub Saharan Africa. The people of the middle east, only 5% of the world's population, are remarkably unproductive, with a high proportion not in the labour force at all. According to a series of UN development reports five times as many books are translated annually into Greek than into Arabic. The Mid east has the lowest level of internet connectivity, well behind sub Saharan Africa. Oil rich principalities may dazzle the world with shiny towers and bling but it's largely a facade. Foreign labourers build the infrastructure. Foreign professionals keep it running. Edward Luttwak, Prospect magazine, May 2007