American guns

[Higgly]

Living in Toronto, it's hard not to notice the gun-homicide stats being constantly ratcheted up. Every day it seems another victim falls to gun violence.

Every once in a awhile some jackass from the US Drug Enforcement Agency rears up on his hind legs and whines about BC marijuana leaking into the US. When are we going to see a similar attack from 'Stevie' about the huge problem Uncle Sam's guns are creating up here? US guns are the biggest law enforcement problem in Canada. At least you have a choice as to whether you take drugs. Gun homicide victims do not.

American guns are a big, big problem in Canada and it gets bigger every day. When is our government going to do something about it besides sit on its thumb and suck in its cheeks?

[B. Max]

Well if drug dealers are knocking off drug dealers, who cares. As I understand it most of them are foreign imports. They are the problem not the guns.

[Leafless]

Living in Toronto, it's hard not to notice the gun-homicide stats being constantly ratcheted up. Every day it seems another victim falls to gun violence.

Every once in a awhile some jackass from the US Drug Enforcement Agency rears up on his hind legs and whines about BC marijuana leaking into the US. When are we going to see a similar attack from 'Stevie' about the huge problem Uncle Sam's guns are creating up here? US guns are the biggest law enforcement problem in Canada. At least you have a choice as to whether you take drugs. Gun homicide victims do not.

American guns are a big, big problem in Canada and it gets bigger every day. When is our government going to do something about it besides sit on its thumb and suck in its cheeks?

Guns don't kill anyone, people do.

What race or nationality is behind the majority of gun related killings in Toronto?

I think this is an immigration problem and for some unknown reason the federal government will not identify the race or nationality responsible for the majority of gun related killings.

If it is firmly established these killings are the work of certain individuals of a certain race or nationality, then this is where action obviously has to be taken, starting with deportations.

[bush_cheney2004]

What is the "government" going to do about "American" guns? Everything and absolutely nothing, depending on which party you listen to from the 2006 election:

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/federalpa...s/a/eliguns.htm

Perhaps blowing another billion or two on the Gun Registry will keep the criminals at bay...LOL!

[jbg]

Every once in a awhile some jackass from the US Drug Enforcement Agency rears up on his hind legs and whines about BC marijuana leaking into the US. When are we going to see a similar attack from 'Stevie' about the huge problem Uncle Sam's guns are creating up here? US guns are the biggest law enforcement problem in Canada. At least you have a choice as to whether you take drugs. Gun homicide victims do not.

American guns are a big, big problem in Canada and it gets bigger every day. When is our government going to do something about it besides sit on its thumb and suck in its cheeks?

Agreed about the BC drug dealers. New York State decriminalized marijuana back in 1977, so the penalties for possession are akin to those for a traffic ticket.

As far as "American guns" go, guns are fungible. Do you really think that if the US went to Canadian-style gun control that the supply of guns would dry up? No, you'd just have a law, like the 100 km speed limit on the 400-series highways, that is enforced in a fickle and selective manner.

[Drea]

Is there anyone with any concrete ideas on stemming the flow of guns from the south?

They are obviously not legal guns owned by responsible gun owners.

LOL -- we give the USA "valium" (pot) and they give us weapons and cocaine.... certainly not a fair trade -- we give you stuff to mellow out your population and you give us weapons to kill ours...

IMO Anyone in Canada caught with an illegal weapon should get an automatic five years in prison.

[Shakeyhands]

Is there anyone with any concrete ideas on stemming the flow of guns from the south?

They are obviously not legal guns owned by responsible gun owners.

LOL -- we give the USA "valium" (pot) and they give us weapons and cocaine.... certainly not a fair trade -- we give you stuff to mellow out your population and you give us weapons to kill ours...

IMO Anyone in Canada caught with an illegal weapon should get an automatic five years in prison.

10 years.

[Argus]

Is there anyone with any concrete ideas on stemming the flow of guns from the south?

They are obviously not legal guns owned by responsible gun owners.

LOL -- we give the USA "valium" (pot) and they give us weapons and cocaine.... certainly not a fair trade -- we give you stuff to mellow out your population and you give us weapons to kill ours...

IMO Anyone in Canada caught with an illegal weapon should get an automatic five years in prison.

Sure. But you need to get around the courts. The courts will not punish people for smuggling, selling or buying illegal guns. There need to be mandatory minimums for smuggling, selling or buying an illegal weapon and they need to be strictly enforced. There also need to be federal sting squads in all the urban centres focussing on trying to get those who deal in illegal weapons. This will make buying a hand gun much more expensive.

There also need to be mandatory minimums and special courts for those caught with illegal weapons, and those who use them. Right now weapons charges are routinely bargained away in exchange for guilty verdicts on robbery, assault, attempt murder, etc. They should be slapped with the maximum in every case. Anyone caught walking around with a hand gun should get a year in prison. Anyone caught walking around with a hand gun who has a criminal record should get five - or ten on a second offense.

Right now you can buy a hand gun almost as easily as you can buy drugs, in every urban centre, just by asking around in the right bars. That has to stop.

[Liam]

I'm certainly no gun nut, but blaming the smuggling of guns into Canada on the US is entirely unfair. I think blaming the US is done partly to reinforce among Canadians the notion that there is a criminal element in their midst, as if it wasn't for that big, bad US next door, Canada would be a crime-free utopia.

Illegally smuggled guns in Canada is a law- and border-enforcement problem that resides within Canada, and responsibility for controlling it is a Canadian problem. To the extent US border controls do not catch illegal items crossing the border, the US shares the burden. But to completely absolve Canadian customs and Canadian law enforcement AND the criminal element within Canada is utterly disingenuous.

[White Doors]

I'm certainly no gun nut, but blaming the smuggling of guns into Canada on the US is entirely unfair. I think blaming the US is done partly to reinforce among Canadians the notion that there is a criminal element in their midst, as if it wasn't for that big, bad US next door, Canada would be a crime-free utopia.

Illegally smuggled guns in Canada is a law- and border-enforcement problem that resides within Canada, and responsibility for controlling it is a Canadian problem. To the extent US border controls do not catch illegal items crossing the border, the US shares the burden. But to completely absolve Canadian customs and Canadian law enforcement AND the criminal element within Canada is utterly disingenuous.

Exactly. They also blame the US on arms going to Africa where in reality the weapons there come from other countries like China and russia and Europe.

it is simply an anti-american soundbite Liam.

Unfortunately, alot of people in Canada never grow out of it.

It is one of the worst problems that our country has.

We can't reform medicare because of it. We can't elect judges because of it. We can't sentence criminals to long sentences because of it. We can barely have a conservative government because of it.

We spend so much time trying not to be American we can barely govern ourselves.

it's sad really.

[Remiel]

I'm certainly no gun nut, but blaming the smuggling of guns into Canada on the US is entirely unfair. I think blaming the US is done partly to reinforce among Canadians the notion that there is a criminal element in their midst, as if it wasn't for that big, bad US next door, Canada would be a crime-free utopia.

Illegally smuggled guns in Canada is a law- and border-enforcement problem that resides within Canada, and responsibility for controlling it is a Canadian problem. To the extent US border controls do not catch illegal items crossing the border, the US shares the burden. But to completely absolve Canadian customs and Canadian law enforcement AND the criminal element within Canada is utterly disingenuous.

Not like the U.S. looks North when they need to shift the blame away from themselves, eh?

As Higgly already mentioned, sometimes they create a huff over marijuana. Other times, its pirating. Remember the first incidence of Mad Cow? The found that in Alberta, but the animal had come from the U.S. Then, there is the ever elusive Terrorist. As if Canada were to suddenly block anyone from coming here, then the U.S. would suddenly be terrorist free, eh?

There is no shortage of blame on your side of the fence either, so at worst our behaviour is no better in that area.

[White Doors]

I'm certainly no gun nut, but blaming the smuggling of guns into Canada on the US is entirely unfair. I think blaming the US is done partly to reinforce among Canadians the notion that there is a criminal element in their midst, as if it wasn't for that big, bad US next door, Canada would be a crime-free utopia.

Illegally smuggled guns in Canada is a law- and border-enforcement problem that resides within Canada, and responsibility for controlling it is a Canadian problem. To the extent US border controls do not catch illegal items crossing the border, the US shares the burden. But to completely absolve Canadian customs and Canadian law enforcement AND the criminal element within Canada is utterly disingenuous.

Not like the U.S. looks North when they need to shift the blame away from themselves, eh?

As Higgly already mentioned, sometimes they create a huff over marijuana. Other times, its pirating. Remember the first incidence of Mad Cow? The found that in Alberta, but the animal had come from the U.S. Then, there is the ever elusive Terrorist. As if Canada were to suddenly block anyone from coming here, then the U.S. would suddenly be terrorist free, eh?

There is no shortage of blame on your side of the fence either, so at worst our behaviour is no better in that area.

Not true. Americans don't obsess over what we are doing and compare it to what they are doing.

Our Anti-Americanism defines us.

You won't find any Americans defining themselves as Anti- Canadian. that is just silly.

Oh, and warner bros is not equal to the American government - just thought I'd let you know.

Yes and the American were the first country to allow our beef back in. I don't see anyone cursing the Japanese about not letting our beef in for LONG after.

It is a problem in this country. a large one.

[Mad_Michael]

Living in Toronto, it's hard not to notice the gun-homicide stats being constantly ratcheted up. Every day it seems another victim falls to gun violence.

Every once in a awhile some jackass from the US Drug Enforcement Agency rears up on his hind legs and whines about BC marijuana leaking into the US. When are we going to see a similar attack from 'Stevie' about the huge problem Uncle Sam's guns are creating up here? US guns are the biggest law enforcement problem in Canada. At least you have a choice as to whether you take drugs. Gun homicide victims do not.

American guns are a big, big problem in Canada and it gets bigger every day. When is our government going to do something about it besides sit on its thumb and suck in its cheeks?

You realise that according to the infamous 'Gun Registry' - there are more legal guns (per capita) in Canada than in the USA.

Guns don't kill people. It is the idiots with the guns who do the killing.

[geoffrey]

IMO Anyone in Canada caught with an illegal weapon should get an automatic five years in prison.

There is some reasonable thinking on the gun issue. Registering legal guns doesn't do anything... people don't register a weapon they are about to go shoot someone with.

Most gang weapons can't be legally aquired in Canada.

So there we go. Regulation isn't the cure here, some real jail time for some of Canada's worst criminals is.

[Liam]

Not like the U.S. looks North when they need to shift the blame away from themselves, eh?

As Higgly already mentioned, sometimes they create a huff over marijuana. Other times, its pirating. Remember the first incidence of Mad Cow? The found that in Alberta, but the animal had come from the U.S. Then, there is the ever elusive Terrorist. As if Canada were to suddenly block anyone from coming here, then the U.S. would suddenly be terrorist free, eh?

There is no shortage of blame on your side of the fence either, so at worst our behaviour is no better in that area.

I disagree with anyone who blames Canadians for pot smuggled into the US, nor do I blame Colombians for the voracious coke habits of Miami Beach partiers. It's the US government's responsibility to stop the contraband at the border and it's the US consumer's fault such trades even exist. (To the extent the Canadian or Colombian governments know illegal products are being exported to the US and decide to look the other way, *then* I would place some of the blame on those other countries. Short of such a scenario, criticism of Canada or Colombia is unfair, IMO.) Likewise, it is Canada's responsibility to secure its own border and police the products entering its sovereign space. If the US government was colluding with smugglers, I'd agree that "*US* guns" are the problem. But placing the blame on the US for the appetite for illegal guns on the part of your own homegrown hoodlums is deflecting your own national responsibility.

Mad cow? Even if the infected cow came from the US, did it contract the disease in the US or Canada? If there was a US product Canadians imported and relied upon and it was discovered that a test batch contained life-threatening levels of poison X, you don't think Canadian officials would stop importation till the situation was assessed and remedied?

[Mad_Michael]

Living in Toronto, it's hard not to notice the gun-homicide stats being constantly ratcheted up. Every day it seems another victim falls to gun violence.

Every once in a awhile some jackass from the US Drug Enforcement Agency rears up on his hind legs and whines about BC marijuana leaking into the US. When are we going to see a similar attack from 'Stevie' about the huge problem Uncle Sam's guns are creating up here? US guns are the biggest law enforcement problem in Canada. At least you have a choice as to whether you take drugs. Gun homicide victims do not.

American guns are a big, big problem in Canada and it gets bigger every day. When is our government going to do something about it besides sit on its thumb and suck in its cheeks?

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Apparently Canadians want to import/buy lots of American guns.

Why is this an American problem? Looks more like a Canadian problem to me. Too many Canadians want to kill people.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Mad_Michael

[bush_cheney2004]

The American guns have legs and walk across the border by themselves...I guess the bullets just roll themselves instead of walking!

[jbg]

The American guns have legs and walk across the border by themselves...I guess the bullets just roll themselves instead of walking!

The gun registry should have solved the whole problem. I'm sure that Bernardo, Picton, Olsen et. al. register their weaponry, and tell the Gun Registrar of their intended uses of the firearms.

[Wilber]

The crime problem is Canada's. Only Canada can fix it. Unfortunately the availability of guns from the US makes their use in crimes here a bigger problem. The guns for drugs trade involves criminals on both sides of the border. The gun registry might have been worthwhile if it had remained within its original budget but all it has really done is suck up resources that would have been better spent elsewhere. It will never have any real effect on reducing the number of handguns and other restricted and illegal weapons on the streets.

[Higgly]

Guns don't kill anyone, people do.

What race or nationality is behind the majority of gun related killings in Toronto?

I think this is an immigration problem and for some unknown reason the federal government will not identify the race or nationality responsible for the majority of gun related killings.

If it is firmly established these killings are the work of certain individuals of a certain race or nationality, then this is where action obviously has to be taken, starting with deportations.

Well yes, but they use guns, don't they?

As far as "American guns" go, guns are fungible. Do you really think that if the US went to Canadian-style gun control that the supply of guns would dry up? No, you'd just have a law, like the 100 km speed limit on the 400-series highways, that is enforced in a fickle and selective manner.

If they were serious about it, they could do it. The problem is the NRA.

LOL -- we give the USA "valium" (pot) and they give us weapons and cocaine.... certainly not a fair trade -- we give you stuff to mellow out your population and you give us weapons to kill ours...

Yeah, the whole marijuana thing is so illogical you have to know that morons are at work.

Sure. But you need to get around the courts.

No! You need to legislate. Getting around the courts is what criminals do.

[B. Max]

The gun registry should have solved the whole problem. I'm sure that Bernardo, Picton, Olsen et. al. register their weaponry, and tell the Gun Registrar of their intended uses of the firearms.

The only purpose of the gun registry was an attempt to find out where the guns are so they could be confiscated at a later date. Many gun collections were long ago sent to the US for safe keeping. What's really ironic about the whole thing, is that it was toronto where the liberals did their survey to get support for the C68 in the first place. Now the problem is hand guns, which have been registered since the thirties some time. The Liberals used the dupes in TO to get C68. Now they blame guns from the US, but their answer to that is to confiscate hand guns from owners in this country. Once again the idiots in TO will fall for it hook line and sinker.

[Technocrat]

Ohhh no... lets not deprive people of their guns... (sarcasm)

yeesh...

I have zero sympathy for gun collectors. Perhaps its time for a new hobby... stamps, baseball cards? That being said... in all fairness collections that include hanguns should be handed over and the guns should be destroyed(unless they are of some historical significance). The collectors should be compensated for their collections at a fair market value.

Im pretty sure that the T.O. police cheif stated that many of the guns that are used in gun crimes in the GTA are stolen from gun collectors. You have to admit that even though gun collectors themselves could be law abiding citizens, their collections are like mini armories and are targeted by criminals to traffic their stolen firearms.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Technocrat

[jbg]

Ohhh no... lets not deprive people of their guns... (sarcasm)

Would Olson have turned his in?

[B. Max]

Ohhh no... lets not deprive people of their guns... (sarcasm)

yeesh...

I have zero sympathy for gun collectors. Perhaps its time for a new hobby... stamps, baseball cards? That being said... in all fairness collections that include hanguns should be handed over and the guns should be destroyed(unless they are of some historical significance). The collectors should be compensated for their collections at a fair market value.

Im pretty sure that the T.O. police cheif stated that many of the guns that are used in gun crimes in the GTA are stolen from gun collectors. You have to admit that even though gun collectors themselves could be law abiding citizens, their collections are like mini armories and are targeted by criminals to traffic their stolen firearms.

If one were to follow that logic to its conclusion we would have everyone turn in their cars so they wouldn't be stolen. Oh, and we would have close down all the drug stores. Oh what the hell, just ban anything that might be stolen. Although even after that the problem would still exist because the crooks would still be there. It would be better to get rid of the thugs and crooks, but then that's not a politically correct feel good.