Could someone please explain to me the mediocre liberall poll results

[1967100]

The Liberals are can't seem to muster much public support, with their numbers at the low 30's to high 20's nationally. Could someone explain to me why this is happening with a new and fresh leader in Stephane Dion?

[Michael Bluth]

The Liberals are can't seem to muster much public support, with their numbers at the low 30's to high 20's nationally. Could someone explain to me why this is happening with a new and fresh leader in Stephane Dion?

The public doesn't agree about the "Conservative ineptness"?

Stephane Dion really didn't get it done. And the public recognizes this.

[Mad_Michael]

The Liberals are can't seem to muster much public support, with their numbers at the low 30's to high 20's nationally. Could someone explain to me why this is happening with a new and fresh leader in Stephane Dion?

One word - Dion.

Milquetoast. Boring. Can't speak English. Looks like (and talks like) a bureaucrat. Uninspiring. Claims to be a technocrat but has no accomplishments to speak of.

In short, you are right - the Liberals ought to be rising in the polls right now. Dion is the reason they are not.

The question is, do the Liberals dump and replace Dion now or do they wait until he loses the next election and then do it?

Stephen Harper must have thanked his lucky stars the day Dion won the Liberal leadership convention.

[Shakeyhands]

The Liberals are can't seem to muster much public support, with their numbers at the low 30's to high 20's nationally. Could someone explain to me why this is happening with a new and fresh leader in Stephane Dion?

One word - Dion.

Milquetoast. Boring. Can't speak English. Looks like (and talks like) a bureaucrat. Uninspiring. Claims to be a technocrat but has no accomplishments to speak of.

In short, you are right - the Liberals ought to be rising in the polls right now. Dion is the reason they are not.

The question is, do the Liberals dump and replace Dion now or do they wait until he loses the next election and then do it?

Stephen Harper must have thanked his lucky stars the day Dion won the Liberal leadership convention.

Exactly. Its my belief that we (I am a member of the Liberal Party) should replace Dion now, in fact I was dismayed when he won. The Liberals could possibly limp in to a minority next election but to make any significant gains he needs to be replaced. I'd say any of the other leadership contenders (with the exception of Volpe) would have made a much better leader in terms of general public acceptance.

[Mad_Michael]

Exactly. Its my belief that we (I am a member of the Liberal Party) should replace Dion now, in fact I was dismayed when he won. The Liberals could possibly limp in to a minority next election but to make any significant gains he needs to be replaced. I'd say any of the other leadership contenders (with the exception of Volpe) would have made a much better leader in terms of general public acceptance.

Rae's the one who could have won and would make Harper very, very nervous about calling an election.

My money is on Rae winning the next Liberal leadership thingie. He'd eat Harper for breakfast in a General election and Rae polls very well in every province across the country (only weak in Ontario, but that is easily addressed and not likely to be a significant obstacle).

[Michael Bluth]

Exactly. Its my belief that we (I am a member of the Liberal Party) should replace Dion now, in fact I was dismayed when he won. The Liberals could possibly limp in to a minority next election but to make any significant gains he needs to be replaced. I'd say any of the other leadership contenders (with the exception of Volpe) would have made a much better leader in terms of general public acceptance.

It's sad that so much emnity built up between Ignatieff and Rae. (Good for me as a Conservative, but...)

It seems like Rae moved to Dion just to spite Ignatieff.

Dion's win really reminds me of Joe Clark winning the PC leadership in 76. A wishy washy third option chosen out of spite as the top two candidates couldn't fathom working together for the best interest of the party.

[noahbody]

The Liberals are can't seem to muster much public support, with their numbers at the low 30's to high 20's nationally. Could someone explain to me why this is happening with a new and fresh leader in Stephane Dion?

Stephane Dion is not a leader.

There is truth to this. The majority of Liberals didn't think he was the best leader either, as seen on the first ballot. Leadership is not born out of compromise. Some people have it, others don't.

Aside from that, the Liberals have decided to champion themselves on one of their weak points, Kyoto. It's like Dion yelling at another dog owner to clean up the poop in the park, when everyone knows it was his dog Kyoto that crapped.

[Mad_Michael]

It's sad that so much emnity built up between Ignatieff and Rae. (Good for me as a Conservative, but...)

Ignatieff was the insider's choice of Liberal Party (Chretien wing). The Chretien people all supported Ignatief and most of the Martin people supported Rae.

And the (corrupt and arrogant) Chretien faction needed to be destroyed once and for all.

Dion's win really reminds me of Joe Clark winning the PC leadership in 76. A wishy washy third option chosen out of spite as the top two candidates couldn't fathom working together for the best interest of the party.

Yes, a possibly apt analogy, though Dion has NEVER shown half the abilities of Joe Clark.

Joe Clark's problem was that he was a very competent and capable man who just happened to look like an idiot. No one has managed to show that Dion is anything but the idiot he is perceived to be.

Which is why I don't expect Dion to last long. The sooner Harper calls the election, the sooner Dion can be replaced with Rae and Harper won't stand a chance.

[jdobbin]

It's funny seeing Tories argue who should be next Liberal leader and saying how Dion should be higher in the polls.

Anyone of the people mentioned as a possible replacement would have had Tories gleeful. Rae, Ignatieff and all of the rest would have still had to overcome all of their negatives.

I believe the Tories would have called another election even before Rae got in the House.

The latest political polls have all shown a drop in Tory support and the Liberal support has remained stable for several weeks.

In the last month, the Liberals have had the Tories on their heels and they haven't controlled the agenda because they don't have one.

The Liberals are not about to replace Dion before an election anymore than the Tories were about to replace Harper. You do remember where Harper was in the month before the last election, don't you? There were a bunch of doubting Thomas types within the Tory party who said he couldn't get it done.

An RCMP investigation helped turned the tide by 10 points overnight and the Tories won a minority. After more than a year, they are no further ahead than they were at election time and even possibly below that if the last several polls are correct.

Dion was able to perform sufficiently well to forestall an early election and now the Tories have to hope that a snap election isn't called when they are down in the polls.

[Michael Bluth]

Ignatieff was the insider's choice of Liberal Party (Chretien wing). The Chretien people all supported Ignatief and most of the Martin people supported Rae.

I'm not sure about central Canada and the Maritimes, but out West most of the Martinites supported Dion with a few sprinkled among the other candidates.

Joe Clark's problem was that he was a very competent and capable man who just happened to look like an idiot. No one has managed to show that Dion is anything but the idiot he is perceived to be.

I'm surprised at how kind history has been to Joe Clark.

I question his judgment on a few things.

Why not extend the life of that minority Goverment? (Yes, I understand that Clark thought he could win a majority but he still should have waited until the Liberals picked a new leader.)

He could have declared a victory in the leadership review in 1983. (Mulroney's people thought they had lost and were shocked when Clark called a leadership convention.

Why was he such a biotch about the Alliance-PC merger?

As for Dion. mehhh, I think it should signal the last delegated convention in Canada.

[Mad_Michael]

I'm not sure about central Canada and the Maritimes, but out West most of the Martinites supported Dion with a few sprinkled among the other candidates.

The overwhelming majority of delegates to the Liberal leadership convention came from Ontario and Quebec.

Joe Clark's problem was that he was a very competent and capable man who just happened to look like an idiot. No one has managed to show that Dion is anything but the idiot he is perceived to be.

I'm surprised at how kind history has been to Joe Clark.

I question his judgment on a few things.

Why not extend the life of that minority Goverment? (Yes, I understand that Clark thought he could win a majority but he still should have waited until the Liberals picked a new leader.)

He could have declared a victory in the leadership review in 1983. (Mulroney's people thought they had lost and were shocked when Clark called a leadership convention.

Why was he such a biotch about the Alliance-PC merger?

As for Dion. mehhh, I think it should signal the last delegated convention in Canada.

I didn't say Joe Clark was a success - just that he wasn't half the idiot he was perceived to be.

I agree Joe Clark made some poor calculations when he was leader - and he paid the price for those errors.

But Joe's rehabilitation began with the Reform party split. That was when we witnessed Joe Clark standing firm upon some very important principles that apparently are quite popular in Canada. Everytime some wingnut Reform/Alliance party member mouthed off about gays or immigrants, that just made Joe Clark look like a decent fellow. His international work also helped to recover his reputation.

I shall respect Joe Clark to my dying days for refusing the merger with the Reform/Alliance party. That was a principled stand. Joe Clark knew the new Alliance/Reform recipe would be toxic in Quebec/Ontario. Joe was right all along.

I'm a former member of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. That party is long gone and now I'm a member of the Liberal Party of Canada (like so many others in Ontario).

[Vancouver King]

The Liberals are can't seem to muster much public support, with their numbers at the low 30's to high 20's nationally. Could someone explain to me why this is happening with a new and fresh leader in Stephane Dion?

A far more interesting question is why are Conservatives stuck at less than their support level of last election.

Logic dictates that after a more than a year of implementing their agenda, controlling the legislative pipeline, out of control (Liberal?) spending, and expensive off-campaign negative political ads directed towards a struggling opposition leader, that the party would be basking around 45%, or majority territory. Instead Tories best efforts yield support below their showing in 2006.

What's wrong?

[Higgly]

The most recent poll I've seen shows the Liberals and Conservatives tied at 29.5%.

[Mad_Michael]

The most recent poll I've seen shows the Liberals and Conservatives tied at 29.5%.

Which is a categorically poor showing for the Liberal Party. The Conservatives may be used to such numbers, but this is historically low level of support for the Liberal Party. That's why the heat is on Dion. As a leader, he's a failure - such weak polling numbers illustrate this.

[Mad_Michael]

The Liberals are can't seem to muster much public support, with their numbers at the low 30's to high 20's nationally. Could someone explain to me why this is happening with a new and fresh leader in Stephane Dion?

A far more interesting question is why are Conservatives stuck at less than their support level of last election.

Logic dictates that after a more than a year of implementing their agenda, controlling the legislative pipeline, out of control (Liberal?) spending, and expensive off-campaign negative political ads directed towards a struggling opposition leader, that the party would be basking around 45%, or majority territory. Instead Tories best efforts yield support below their showing in 2006.

What's wrong?

Harper is dull, boring and generally disliked, though not hated. Conservative policies are not very popular. Spending is increasing, negative political attack ads often backfire on those who pay for them (shows they are crude and nasty brutes) and the Conservatives are perceived to be standing on the wrong side of the one issue the electorate thinks is most important - the environment.

No surprise the Conservatives stand in the polls where they are. Like I said, Harper ought to thank his lucky stars that the Liberals are in disarray and have a dud for a leader that allows his mediocre minority government to stand.

[southerncomfort]

Don't think a lot of people understand a minority government and still buy into the scary scary stuff but people know Liberals still need time out on the benches.

[Michael Bluth]

Don't think a lot of people understand a minority government and still buy into the scary scary stuff but people know Liberals still need time out on the benches.

That's the key.

We've had many threads about why the Conservatives are where they are in the polls. The way I read it, this thread is about why the Liberals are where they are.

Stephane Dion is not inspiring as a leader. His victory pointed out the fundamental flaws in a delegated leadership selection process.

People aren't ready to hand power back to the Liberals yet. If they were, you should see the Liberals in majority territory. They aren't even close.

[Mad_Michael]

Indeed, Dion is as uninspiring as Harper is.

Both ambitious technocrats (with virtually no accomplishments between them) unloved by the populace.

[Michael Bluth]

Indeed, Dion is as uninspiring as Harper is.

Both ambitious technocrats (with virtually no accomplishments between them) unloved by the populace.

So it comes down to a choice between the proven corruption of the Liberal Party of Canada versus the *scary**scary**scary* Conservative Party of Canada if they get a majority.

So that means it will be another Conservative minority I guess...

[geoffrey]

So that means it will be another Conservative minority I guess...

Almost certainly.

[BC_chick]

No surprise the Conservatives stand in the polls where they are. Like I said, Harper ought to thank his lucky stars that the Liberals are in disarray and have a dud for a leader that allows his mediocre minority government to stand.

What don't you like Dion?

[speaker]

I figure if the conservatives who used to be alliance, and who used to be reform, and who used to be anything but part of that underhanded backstabbing conservative old boy network and jump-started the Reform, and the NDP went all out and became the co-operative commonwealth federation again, the Greens quit making deals with the underhanded backstabbing liberals, and the Bloc proceeded to get serious about governance inside Quebec, I think we might do away with the liberalconservatives and actually have a big party. Hey I'm buying.

Ps it wouldn't hurt to have some of the real old-time social crediters out there too.

[hiti]

Guess that is why Stephane Dion got three standing ovations in Calgary last week during his speech to the gathering of Municipalities. A few more of those across the country and people will really get a feel for the kind of leader Dion is.

[Topaz]

I agree Dion wasn't my first choice as leader, either. As far as his speech, I find the Cons Industry minister harder to understand his english than Dion's. Harper will make the polls for the libs go up as he does things that Canadians don't agree with. The latest is the US missile defense that he seems to be for in Europe and he'd probably bring to Canada if he has a majority.

[Keepitsimple]

I agree Dion wasn't my first choice as leader, either. As far as his speech, I find the Cons Industry minister harder to understand his english than Dion's. Harper will make the polls for the libs go up as he does things that Canadians don't agree with. The latest is the US missile defense that he seems to be for in Europe and he'd probably bring to Canada if he has a majority.

If you are referring to Maxime Bernier - I also had a great deal of trouble understanding him when the Conservatives came to power. But it did my heart good to hear him a couple of months ago - wow, what an improvement.....Dion is also somewhat better and I'm sure he will also continue to make improvements. No offense to Mr. Dion, but it will take a long longer to be "quick on his feet" in English. But hey, we'll see what happens.