Cops Planted Drugs

[bush_cheney2004]

I love how you always throw out the "only Americans are fit to comment on American activities" whenever you're backed in the corner and you have nothing left to argue. Funny though how that never occurred to you during a debate any time BEFORE you ran out of answers.

Oh, btw, I've noticed you don't practice what you preach and even though you only expect American opinions on American subjects, you seem to have opinions about France, Canada, Middle-East, and just about everywhere else in the world.

How about a little consistency?

How about you put me on your ignore list? I never said any such thing, preferring simply to rub your nose in identical Canadian poo. I will post any way I damn well please. That's a very American idea too, but you can borrow it from the USA like everything else in your posts.

Thanks for worshipping ME.... LOL!

[Guest coot]

I will post any way I damn well please.

I must admit that is at least an honest defence for being misinformed, inconsistent, and proven wrong.

[bush_cheney2004]

I must admit that is at least an honest defence for being misinformed, inconsistent, and proven wrong.

Thank you for worshipping ME...that makes two of you!

Wanna buy a handgun?

[Guest coot]

Wanna buy a handgun?

Already got several.

[bush_cheney2004]

Already got several.

I thought so....it's the American thing to do doncha know!

[scribblet]

I will post any way I damn well please.

I must admit that is at least an honest defence for being misinformed, inconsistent, and proven wrong.

Actually I havn't seen anything proving him wrong.

[Figleaf]

I will post any way I damn well please.

I must admit that is at least an honest defence for being misinformed, inconsistent, and proven wrong.

Actually I havn't seen anything proving him wrong.

No doubt you haven't.

[kuzadd]

despite the denials here, the cops were clearly wrong!

They knew this and hence there attempt to cover up, there actions.

The cover-up on there part is an ackowledgement of there wrongdoing, through an attempt to save there own arses.

There is NO proof, this lady KNEW it was police breaking into her house.

One cannot assume, she was intentionally trying to shoot at police officers, She clearly knew someone person/people were breaking into her house.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2007/April/07_crt_299.html

Officer Gregg Junnier, of Woodstock, Ga., and Officer Jason R. Smith, of Oxford, Ga., pleaded guilty in state court to

voluntary manslaughter, violation of oath by a public officer, criminal solicitation and false statements, and in federal court to a civil rights conspiracy violation that resulted in the death of Ms. Johnston. Smith also pleaded guilty in state court to one count of perjury.

The third officer, Arthur Tesler, of Acworth, Ga., was indicted on state charges of

false statements, violation of oath of office by a public officer, and false imprisonment.

"“The killing of Kathryn Johnston by Atlanta police officers was a horrible and unnecessary tragedy,” said David E. Nahmias. “While the police officers involved were attempting to rid the streets of drug dealers, their means toward that end violated their oath, the Constitution, and the civil rights of the citizens they are sworn to protect, and it was inevitable that one day someone would get seriously hurt. This conduct demands accountability. Beyond holding the officers responsible for their crimes, however, Ms. Johnston’s family has made clear that they want some good to come out of her death. We are committed to working with the FBI to find out just how wide the culture of misconduct that led to this tragedy extends within APD and to bring any other officers who have violated the law to justice.”

it is quite clear the police in this case took ALOT of wrong and unlawful actions.

FBI Special Agent in Charge Gregory Jones: "The conduct of these police officers is both troubling and deplorable. As law enforcement officers we take an oath to uphold the law and to protect the innocent. These officers chose to break the law and in doing so, they took the life of an innocent elderly woman. "

the cops were wrong and they broke numerous laws.

[Argus]

Are you suggesting that every time the police screw something up, whatever they were investigating should be legalized?

No, I think it's that, in addition to hating the poor, and minorities, Harper hates old women too, and wants to make it possible for the police to run around bashing in doors and shooting people.

Cause he's evil, you know.

[Argus]

in other words the cops in there zeal shot one another.

the cops fired a hail of 39 bulletsat the woman.

and they purchased NO drugs there either.

Still doesn't matter...granny started the chain of deadly force events...granny paid the price. I'm surprised it was only 39 shots.

One bullet is a "hail" if it hits YOU.

What this sounds like is zealous, eager, and ultimately tragically incompetent - and poorly supervised cops making a huge screwup that cost a woman her life. A no-knock warrant is just that, a warrant which lets you bash your way in without notice. Now smart cops will shout out "Police officer!" repeatedly as they're doing it, but it doesn't sound like that's the breed of cop we're dealing with here. So I don't blame granny for shooting at punks (and that's the way drug cops dress) bashing in her door.

[runningdog]

in other words the cops in there zeal shot one another.

the cops fired a hail of 39 bulletsat the woman.

and they purchased NO drugs there either.

Still doesn't matter...granny started the chain of deadly force events...granny paid the price. I'm surprised it was only 39 shots.

One bullet is a "hail" if it hits YOU.

What this sounds like is zealous, eager, and ultimately tragically incompetent - and poorly supervised cops making a huge screwup that cost a woman her life. A no-knock warrant is just that, a warrant which lets you bash your way in without notice. Now smart cops will shout out "Police officer!" repeatedly as they're doing it, but it doesn't sound like that's the breed of cop we're dealing with here. So I don't blame granny for shooting at punks (and that's the way drug cops dress) bashing in her door.

I agree. This whole thing comes back to this: if the police had done a proper job and done their homework, they would not have obtained the no knock warrent in the 1st place. I always thought bush cheney 2004 was a better debater than what he/she has shown in this thread. I'm still amazed that I have agreed with Argus on something

[guyser]

Obviously bushcheney2004 is a police apologist for the JBT tactics those dumb cops used. He must have family in the JBT business, but whatever, lets allow him to wallow in it. Ya know, until it is he who has this problem, and then watch the whine. But whatever.

No knock warrant with the legal right to protect ones own property is the reason the cops should be absolutely sure of what they do. For the most part, they do, but they also know who the liars and the idiots are and as such should need extra attention paid to the appplication for warrants.

Granny was right in every sense, defending her home againts unannounced entry.It is a damn shame granny didnt own a bigger calibre gun or something that would scatter better in order to put these cops where they should be, six feet under instead of granny. (yea we know bc2004 , granny dead, revel elsewhere)

But this is part and parcel of the bigger problem. The war on drugs is used like this to justify all the equipment that the cops think they need. The rise of SWAT teams and the use of them is pretty laughable. They are not needed for what they think they are. The laws used for confiscating property is another. Police Depts are known to covet something, they will make up a reason to get the owner of such prop charged and as such sieze the property.

As for no knocks, lets hope it doesnt get here.

But for all the joy bc2004 has in a 92 yr old lady being dead, the rest of society can at least now that some measure of justice will be applied by the good old pound-me-in-the-ass-prison system.Those cops will only wish they were dead.

[bush_cheney2004]

I agree. This whole thing comes back to this: if the police had done a proper job and done their homework, they would not have obtained the no knock warrent in the 1st place. I always thought bush cheney 2004 was a better debater than what he/she has shown in this thread. I'm still amazed that I have agreed with Argus on something

But they did get a warrant, so your point is moot. Municipalities carry insurance policies for this very type of thing, some even legally capping liability to a fixed dollar amount. So cry the blues all you want about a dead 92 year-old (coroner says she was 88) that you didn't give a damn about until she was made fodder for boredom in Canada and peanut gallery whining about the USA's so called war on drugs.

This isn't a "debate".

[bush_cheney2004]

....Granny was right in every sense, defending her home againts unannounced entry.It is a damn shame granny didnt own a bigger calibre gun or something that would scatter better in order to put these cops where they should be, six feet under instead of granny. (yea we know bc2004 , granny dead, revel elsewhere)

Brilliant idea...point a bigger gun or shotgun at police officers executing a warrant. Please try this yourself one day and see how things turn out. One less member to worship ME (I count three references by name!)

[Argus]

I agree. This whole thing comes back to this: if the police had done a proper job and done their homework, they would not have obtained the no knock warrent in the 1st place. I always thought bush cheney 2004 was a better debater than what he/she has shown in this thread. I'm still amazed that I have agreed with Argus on something

But they did get a warrant,

BC, you're ignoring the fact the warrant was without basis - that they lied about it - thus the warrant ultimately was illegal and provided no legal or moral justification for the entry. Had they actually found drugs and made an arrest a competent defence lawyer would have had the case thrown out of court anyway. These guys were clowns who didn't do their job properly. And it resulted in an innocent woman being killed.

Now I don't agree with the propogandaistic way this is being used here, but the facts are the facts insofar as the case itself goes.

[Argus]

....Granny was right in every sense, defending her home againts unannounced entry.It is a damn shame granny didnt own a bigger calibre gun or something that would scatter better in order to put these cops where they should be, six feet under instead of granny. (yea we know bc2004 , granny dead, revel elsewhere)

Brilliant idea...point a bigger gun or shotgun at police officers executing a warrant. Please try this yourself one day and see how things turn out. One less member to worship ME (I count three references by name!)

What gives you the idea this woman had any idea the people busting into her home were cops? Have you seen the way narco cops dress? All she saw or heard were scruffy men breaking into her home, and she did what the NRA and the Republican Party and all of right-wing America wanted her to do and told her she should do - she grabbed her gun and opened fire.

[guyser]

Brilliant idea...point a bigger gun or shotgun at police officers executing a warrant. Please try this yourself one day and see how things turn out. One less member to worship ME (I count three references by name!)

It is never a brilliant idea to point a gun at anyone. In this case she was justified in firing away.

But you fail to see any problem here, thus the apologist tag.

Since the warrant is entirely baseless, or illegal, anything the cops did from that point on is illegal and should be punished.

Sadly more and more this happens in North America, and unfortunately the police involved are not being held to any sort of higher standard .

Smug, very smug last line. Sad.

[bush_cheney2004]

It is never a brilliant idea to point a gun at anyone. In this case she was justified in firing away.

But you fail to see any problem here, thus the apologist tag.

Since the warrant is entirely baseless, or illegal, anything the cops did from that point on is illegal and should be punished.

Sadly more and more this happens in North America, and unfortunately the police involved are not being held to any sort of higher standard .

Smug, very smug last line. Sad.

They will be "punished"....sentences will be served...insurance money will be paid. But not for murder! Wrong on that idea for sure. I cited a case from over 20 years ago involving the death of innocent people because of police tactics. High speed pursuits still kill many people each year.

Smug? Sure...I get that way when members harass me by name multiple times. We'll let the courts decide what is illegal thank you very much.

[bush_cheney2004]

What gives you the idea this woman had any idea the people busting into her home were cops? Have you seen the way narco cops dress? All she saw or heard were scruffy men breaking into her home, and she did what the NRA and the Republican Party and all of right-wing America wanted her to do and told her she should do - she grabbed her gun and opened fire.

What give you the idea that I said any such thing? I applaud her tenacity in the face of long odds, but alas the evil police officers had better firearms training and more speed loaders.

What is "right-wing" America, or are you just bloviating?

[guyser]

They will be "punished"....sentences will be served...insurance money will be paid. But not for murder! Wrong on that idea for sure. I cited a case from over 20 years ago involving the death of innocent people because of police tactics. High speed pursuits still kill many people each year.

Wow....stay on topic here will you?

I never said murder.

And to compare the actions of a police pursuit to some cops lying to obtain a warrant is not only moot, but a ridiculous notion.

Since you dont seem to follow along, a police pursuit is done because of someone fleeing the police. Thus they directly observed something and attempted to pull them over. Accidents can occur in a police chase and they wisely call them off when things become too heated, be it people around or just unsafe to continue.

But yea, that equals lying to a judge and getting a bogus warrant. Keep up the good analogies.

With friends like you, who needs debate ?

Smug? Sure...I get that way when members harass me by name multiple times. We'll let the courts decide what is illegal thank you very much.

What the heck are you talking about? Are you twelve? Harass...?

First sign of defeat. But thanks for playing, next time learn the rules. Okay?

[bush_cheney2004]

Since you dont seem to follow along, a police pursuit is done because of someone fleeing the police. Thus they directly observed something and attempted to pull them over. Accidents can occur in a police chase and they wisely call them off when things become too heated, be it people around or just unsafe to continue.

But yea, that equals lying to a judge and getting a bogus warrant. Keep up the good analogies.

With friends like you, who needs debate ?

No they don't always wisely call them off...get a clue. The point is that police actions kill people, legal or not. Your poor victim (who you didn't give a rip about about) would still be just as dead if the no-knock warrant was squeaky clean. This is the obvious point that escapes you.

[guyser]

No they don't always wisely call them off...get a clue. The point is that police actions kill people, legal or not. Your poor victim (who you didn't give a rip about about) would still be just as dead if the no-knock warrant was squeaky clean. This is the obvious point that escapes you.

Come on, enough with the comic business.

The point is not lost on me. You want to argue a moot point , go right ahead.

The warrant was baseless. Ergo, any action after that is illegal on the part of police. THAT is the point.

You brought the analogy into this, and failed at it. You are correct they dont call them off ALL the time, but the point is that nothing illegal, on the part of police, caused those deaths. The resulting death of a fleeing criminal was not brought about by lies and baseless warrants by the police.

What does "give a rip about" mean ? I dont care about the lady? I care that she was killed when the actions of JBT's put her in her grave.

Ahh...but you want to care about protecting the JBT's .You come across as a police apologist. Find the other 90% of the great cops and give them your support.

Or....you can defend the defenseless.

[JerrySeinfeld]

It is a compromising position to put our police into the business of dictating a moral or personall behaviour, in effect upholding a prohibition against a normal human behaviour. It sets up an area rife for the corruption of both police and local officials.

Well put. And 100% bang-on correct.

Anyone who has seen what drugs do to people's lives wouldn't suggest that:

1. It is normal human behavior and

2. It is worth legalizing

Have you seen even one episode of "Intervention"?

[guyser]

Anyone who has seen what drugs do to people's lives wouldn't suggest that:

1. It is normal human behavior and

2. It is worth legalizing

Have you seen even one episode of "Intervention"?

I have. Some of those people are pretty screwed up.

Have you ever seen, Days of Wine and Roses ?

Leaving Las Vegas?

Barfly?

When a Man Loves a Woman?

These are all movies about alcoholics.

My point is alcohol causes infinitely more damage .

Pot was made illegal on grounds that now would be laughable. If we heard the reasons used then, spoken in the House of Commons or in the Senate today, it would not only be fodder for ridicule, it would destroy any politicians career.

The Gov would be wise to let it go and reap the tax windfall.

This thread is exactly why the police are using drugs for nefarious gains, including but not limited to property seized using the proceeds from crime laws.

[bush_cheney2004]

The warrant was baseless. Ergo, any action after that is illegal on the part of police. THAT is the point.

Doesn't matter...she would still be dead at the hands of the police returning fire. I don't care about your social or even dubious legal perspective (it's called "fruit of the poison tree" btw). Police actions both legal and illegal can and do kill people, people who have far less of a choice than granny packing a gun and following "orders" from the NRA.

Taking this absurdity even further, granny would still be alive if she listened to "left-wing America", whatever that means.