Afghanistan

[Topaz]

So, the PM finally came out a admitted to the troops your here for a very long time! I think we all knew why he dodge the question in Parliament. No one can say for sure this is going to happen because we will have an election by the end of '09 and this could change this and something could happen in Afghanistan or in Iran with the US to change things. This Harper's war now and he better pray alot it doesn't go like Iraq!

[Army Guy]

This Harper's war now and he better pray alot it doesn't go like Iraq!

No it's a Canadian commitment, not belonging to one party or another, but to all of us as a nation. we signed onto that once we agreed to help. Thats part of the problem Canadians don't want to take ownership and solve this thing....they just want to piont fingers.

Does anyone out there really think that if Afgan turns out to be succesful that they would change thier vote, or thier minds about the mission or harper....

And if Harper agreed to pull out today, and move to Darfur, who's war would that be...

[Fortunata]

This is Canada's war, agree with it or not. Public support has slipped, partly imo, because of the partisan way parties deal with it. Steve ran off this weekend as a wag the dog effort; Liberals want a deadline because it serves their political purposes to be different than the Cons and the NDP just want humanitarian efforts there, not combat - at least the NDP are consistent.

So Canadian soldiers are doing their level best and are dying over there and the politicians (ALL of them) are playing games at home. This is what is so disgusting about the way our politics have turned.

[capricorn]

I have been observing Harper's actions on this Afghan question for a while. It looks to me that Harper is staking his political future on whether Canadians will side with him on seeing the Afghanistan mission to completion. Either this guy is so convinced that this is Canada's calling and that we will succeed or he is suicidal. I think he sees something great in this Country and its citizens, in spite of our internal feuds. He knows what we are capable of, as proven by the tremendous accomplishments by Canada in previous wars.

I am not convinced Canadians will dismiss him and elect another Liberal government over this matter. Ordinary Canadians have been hungry for some time to feel meaningful and relevant, at home and internationally. Pride in one's country is a formidable emotion. It sits just below the surface ready to erupt.

It's as if he is daring us to be more than we think we can be. Canadians may not buy into his vision of Canada. So be it. Harper seems willing to take that gamble.

If his government falls over the Afghanistan mission, the Conservatives will be looking for a new leader. Then, we'll have a new government to bash.

[southerncomfort]

This is Canada's war, agree with it or not. Public support has slipped, partly imo, because of the partisan way parties deal with it. Steve ran off this weekend as a wag the dog effort; Liberals want a deadline because it serves their political purposes to be different than the Cons and the NDP just want humanitarian efforts there, not combat - at least the NDP are consistent.

So Canadian soldiers are doing their level best and are dying over there and the politicians (ALL of them) are playing games at home. This is what is so disgusting about the way our politics have turned.

Its not Harper's war, its Natos war. Harper went there because its his job and to give the troops moral support. Its disgusting the way opposition uses his visits for partisan purposes.

[gc1765]

This is Canada's war, agree with it or not. Public support has slipped, partly imo, because of the partisan way parties deal with it. Steve ran off this weekend as a wag the dog effort; Liberals want a deadline because it serves their political purposes to be different than the Cons and the NDP just want humanitarian efforts there, not combat - at least the NDP are consistent.

So Canadian soldiers are doing their level best and are dying over there and the politicians (ALL of them) are playing games at home. This is what is so disgusting about the way our politics have turned.

Excellent post.

[Figleaf]

I have been observing Harper's actions ... I think he sees something great in this Country and its citizens, in spite of our internal feuds. ...

Wow. That's about the last thing Steve's political history would make me think. His record is a litany of bashing virtually everything Canadian, in favor of virtually anything American.

[capricorn]

I have been observing Harper's actions ... I think he sees something great in this Country and its citizens, in spite of our internal feuds. ...

Wow. That's about the last thing Steve's political history would make me think. His record is a litany of bashing virtually everything Canadian, in favor of virtually anything American.

Harper knows that more and more Canadians are turning thumbs down on this war. He's not making himself any favour by talking about an open timetable (beyond Feb. 2009) for our involvement in Afghanistan. This is the kind of thing that keeps me wondering about his motives. He's in a minority situation and he does not appear to fear losing power over this war. You may be right that he is only playing into the hands of the US. At this point in time, I find it difficult to reach that conclusion.

[Canadian Blue]

I respect Harper alot more because he is willing to stick to his guns despite the pressure that has been put on him to change course on Afghanistan. It's no surprise that we have casualties in Afghanistan, Canadian's were warned about the result of our move to south and simply ignored it. I also have alot of respect for Jack Layton because he has stuck to what he believes is best for Canada, and is also sticking to his guns so to speak.

Wow. That's about the last thing Steve's political history would make me think. His record is a litany of bashing virtually everything Canadian, in favor of virtually anything American.

The same can be said of Paul Martin, either way it's fairly easy to pin the "American" label on any politician.

To say that this is "Harpers war" is ridiculous, especially since Harper is only following through with what the previous government had done in Afghanistan.

[scribblet]

I have been observing Harper's actions ... I think he sees something great in this Country and its citizens, in spite of our internal feuds. ...

Wow. That's about the last thing Steve's political history would make me think. His record is a litany of bashing virtually everything Canadian, in favor of virtually anything American.

I don't see Harper 'bashing everything Canadian', thats pretty much an incredible statement LOL

[fellowtraveller]

I like politicians that make the tough decisions without caring too much about what everybody thinks. In this case, that is what Harper is doing, unlike the cut-and-run crew in the Opposition benches. The Opp has seriously miscalculated the tone of the nation if they bring Harper down for caring about some seriously oppressed folks on the other side of the world.

Because he knows that to care about those people in Afghanistan, and to do something other than talk about it is exactly what many Canuckistanis are looking for in a leader.

Walk the walk.

[jdobbin]

I like politicians that make the tough decisions without caring too much about what everybody thinks. In this case, that is what Harper is doing, unlike the cut-and-run crew in the Opposition benches. The Opp has seriously miscalculated the tone of the nation if they bring Harper down for caring about some seriously oppressed folks on the other side of the world.

Because he knows that to care about those people in Afghanistan, and to do something other than talk about it is exactly what many Canuckistanis are looking for in a leader.

Walk the walk.

Support for the mission remains weak. A majority wants Canadian soldiers home by 2009 or earlier.

Not caring about what people think eventually ends in your defeat at the polls.

[capricorn]

I'll be up front. Whatever happens regarding Afghanistan, I will still vote Conservative. The Liberals sent us there, not the Conservatives. Where we are at in Afghanistan cannot and should not be attributed entirely to Conservative policy. In my view, the mission should end in Feb. 09. That's our commitment and that's plenty for a nation of our size, population wise.

Back to Harper. If a politician engages in actions that are likely to lead to defeat, why does the politician do it? I speak here of Harper's musings of extending the mission. Some say he is intent on cozying up to Bush/the US. What good will that do him if it leads to his defeat? This man is far from stupid, so I can't point to incompetence. Therein lies my inability to read Harper on the Afghanistan question.

[Figleaf]

I don't see Harper 'bashing everything Canadian', thats pretty much an incredible statement LOL

It's true he has toned that down some since becoming PM. But I refered to his political history, which includes slagging certain provinces and regions, slagging the constitution, slagging confederation, slagging the courts, slagging our social policies, slagging slagging slagging.

[Figleaf]

I like politicians that make the tough decisions without caring too much about what everybody thinks.

Yeah! Mussolini, Franco, Pol Pot, Ivan the Terrible ... they're the real heroes.

[capricorn]

I like politicians that make the tough decisions without caring too much about what everybody thinks.

Yeah! Mussolini, Franco, Pol Pot, Ivan the Terrible ... they're the real heroes.

If you mean that these infamous characters had the courage of their own convictions, then yes, I must agree they did not care about other people thought. Whose heroes might they be?

[Topaz]

Today there's two new events happening that will affect the war in Afghanistan. The first is the future PM of Britian, Brown, has said he will withdrawal troops from Iraq as soon as he is able. Bush has said he will be bring home some of the troops in '08. So will the centre of this war become Afghanistan, where the terrorist will try to drive out NATO, especially the US? If so, we will see more injured and dead soldiers returning to Canada, so be prepared.

[bush_cheney2004]

Today there's two new events happening that will affect the war in Afghanistan. The first is the future PM of Britian, Brown, has said he will withdrawal troops from Iraq as soon as he is able. Bush has said he will be bring home some of the troops in '08. So will the centre of this war become Afghanistan, where the terrorist will try to drive out NATO, especially the US? If so, we will see more injured and dead soldiers returning to Canada, so be prepared.

Be careful what you wish for....this was long the complaint about the US invasion of Iraq. If the focus increases in Afghanistan with resulting casualties, what will be the next complaint? Why can't Canada determine its own fate in Afghanistan regardless of what happens with US or UK troops?

[Canadian Blue]

Yeah! Mussolini, Franco, Pol Pot, Ivan the Terrible ... they're the real heroes.

Do you mind adding Churchill, Roosevelt, Trudeau, Tommy Douglas, Martin Luther King Jr, and JFK. Didn't all of those people at some time or another take unpopular stands.

[jdobbin]

Do you mind adding Churchill, Roosevelt, Trudeau, Tommy Douglas, Martin Luther King Jr, and JFK. Didn't all of those people at some time or another take unpopular stands.

And most of these people were either voted out of office or shot for their stands.

[Canadian Blue]

Yes, however how did history view them.

As well the post was meant to show figleaf that not every person that takes an unpopular stand is fascist.

[scribblet]

Be careful what you wish for....this was long the complaint about the US invasion of Iraq. If the focus increases in Afghanistan with resulting casualties, what will be the next complaint? Why can't Canada determine its own fate in Afghanistan regardless of what happens with US or UK troops?

Because there are those who will always want to tie Canada's actions to the U.S. in order for them to continue the facade of 'Harper = Bush' you know how it goes.

[capricorn]

Be careful what you wish for....this was long the complaint about the US invasion of Iraq. If the focus increases in Afghanistan with resulting casualties, what will be the next complaint? Why can't Canada determine its own fate in Afghanistan regardless of what happens with US or UK troops?

Because there are those who will always want to tie Canada's actions to the U.S. in order for them to continue the facade of 'Harper = Bush' you know how it goes.

I am phasing out using the term "Bush" in my comments. My references now read "Bush/the US". That is, until the new President is elected. Whoever that will be presents a complication. "Bush" is a one-syllable name, compact and sounds menacing when blurted out with disdain. Adding one or two syllables sorta softens the impact. Wait one minute while I remove my tongue which is firmly planted in my cheek. LOL

[bush_cheney2004]

I am phasing out using the term "Bush" in my comments. My references now read "Bush/the US". That is, until the new President is elected. Whoever that will be presents a complication. "Bush" is a one-syllable name, compact and sounds menacing when blurted out with disdain. Adding one or two syllables sorta softens the impact. Wait one minute while I remove my tongue which is firmly planted in my cheek. LOL

Indeed...it does present a further complication, because whoever is elected US president will still be an American, requiring all those Canadian excuses to be relabled with the new name.