DogOnPorch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 How many Americans support the war in Iraq? How many would support war with Iran? Who knows? Also, do you have a link/reference for this story about the 60,000 football fans? Sure: http://www.javno.com/en/sports/clanak.php?id=31287 http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...59-2703,00.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- Look at your young men fighting Look at your women crying Look at your young men dying The way they've always done before --- Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Figleaf Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 My sentiments exactly...just like those right-wingers who think that Muslims should be judged by the action of a few extremists...During the recent 'Sailor Crisis', an estimated 60,000 football fans in a Tehran stadium chanted "Death To America...Death to England". If they're moderates...then I'd hate to see an extremist. I think it's hilarious how western hawks get so bent out of shape by Muslims chanting at football matches, but think it's AOK for themselves to urge bombings and invasions in internet blogs and letters to the editor. Quote
Figleaf Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Or the rapture, for that matter. Oh get serious...most folks in the secular/agnostic West could give a fiddler's f**k about the stupid Christian rapture. In fact, the only time I hear about it on a regular basis is at forums like these. Surely you are not trying to pretend that fundamentalist Christians are a figment of the collective imagination!?!! It takes a truly weak intellect to hinge an argument on using the absolute fringe of a position to represent the mainstream of the position. Fortunately my comment is in no danger of falling within the scope of that criticism, and it would take a truly weak intellect to think it could. Quote
Figleaf Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Surely you are not trying to pretend that fundamentalist Christians are a figment of the collective imagination!?!!No...what I said is what I mean. But thanks for tryin'... If you didn't mean to imply that Christianity should be exempt from accusations of religoius extremism, then your comment doesn't seem to have had any meaning at all. Your choice -- were you senseless, or simply wrong? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 If you didn't mean to imply that Christianity should be exempt from accusations of religoius extremism, then your comment doesn't seem to have had any meaning at all. No. As mentioned...what I said is what I mean. You're adding the rest... I think it's hilarious how western hawks get so bent out of shape by Muslims chanting at football matches, but think it's AOK for themselves to urge bombings and invasions in internet blogs and letters to the editor. Plenty of 'western doves' would feel uncomfortable surrounded by 60 thousand people calling for their death. That might be ironically hilarious. I'm sure they'd all be OK once they explained their political position. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. ---The Koran Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
ScottSA Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 It takes a truly weak intellect to hinge an argument on using the absolute fringe of a position to represent the mainstream of the position. My sentiments exactly...just like those right-wingers who think that Muslims should be judged by the action of a few extremists... Oh I think there's a tad difference between an internet discussion and the immediacy of mass murder. Your "few extremists" number in the tens of thousands, and are bolstered by hundreds of thousands who support them, and millions who tacitly look the other way. The true "few" are the ones who actively work against the "extremists". Quote
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Oh I think there's a tad difference between an internet discussion and the immediacy of mass murder. Your "few extremists" number in the tens of thousands, and are bolstered by hundreds of thousands who support them, and millions who tacitly look the other way. The true "few" are the ones who actively work against the "extremists". Ok, let's pretend there are millions of people who want "death to America"...how many millions of Americans would support a war against Iran? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Plenty of 'western doves' would feel uncomfortable surrounded by 60 thousand people calling for their death. Of course they would. Just as millions of moderate Muslims would feel uncomfortable being labeled as one of the members of the "axis of evil"....especially when the only other "axis of evil" member without nuclear weapons was invaded. What is your point? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
ScottSA Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Oh I think there's a tad difference between an internet discussion and the immediacy of mass murder. Your "few extremists" number in the tens of thousands, and are bolstered by hundreds of thousands who support them, and millions who tacitly look the other way. The true "few" are the ones who actively work against the "extremists". Ok, let's pretend there are millions of people who want "death to America"...how many millions of Americans would support a war against Iran? I don't know, but that's irrelevant. More appropo to ask how many Christians would support "a few Christian extremists" if they flew an airliner into lrge buildings in Riyadh or Tehran. Let's try to keep the apples seperate from the oranges. And I'd guess not many. I'd guess that no hockey rinks or football stadiums in the west would be full of chanting Christians shouting "Death to Muslims". What do you think? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 DOP: Plenty of 'western doves' would feel uncomfortable surrounded by 60 thousand people calling for their death. Of course they would. Just as millions of moderate Muslims would feel uncomfortable being labeled as one of the members of the "axis of evil"....especially when the only other "axis of evil" member without nuclear weapons was invaded. Back to the chanting stadium...one of many recorded "Death to America & Friends" events thoughout the Muslim world. What's a moderate Muslim? Are we to believe that all those people watching that football game were extremists? That seems highly unlikely from a probability point of view. One might assume that like most crowds, the vast majority of the people there would be somewhere on the moderate part of the spectrum. How about these 'extremists'? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI-DiaBi7VE I'd guess that no hockey rinks or football stadiums in the west would be full of chanting Christians shouting "Death to Muslims". What do you think? An obvious point that will be side-stepped. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need. ---President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Remiel Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 As in other matters, the difficult part is sorting out the people that really mean it and those who just talk a good game. Surely there are some people in that stadium that given the chance, would actually do some pretty rotten stuff, but most of them are just into the sentiment. What is the expression? Support a mile wide and an inch deep? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 As in other matters, the difficult part is sorting out the people that really mean it and those who just talk a good game. Surely there are some people in that stadium that given the chance, would actually do some pretty rotten stuff, but most of them are just into the sentiment. What is the expression? Support a mile wide and an inch deep? Just 'into the sentiment'?...So perhaps they would be the moderate ones? How does one explain what happens during Jerusalem Day in Iran? An annual event at the end of Ramadan. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2526939.stm Hundreds of thousands of Iranians have taken to the streets of the capital, Tehran, to mark Jerusalem Day and show their solidarity with the Palestinians. Vast columns of people from all walks of life converged on Tehran university, the traditional location for Friday prayers, to protest against the Israeli occupation of Jerusalem. Marchers waved banners and effigies of Israeli and US leaders, and chanted "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" slogans. But there was no violence - the demonstration was fully supported and indeed encouraged by the authorities. Correspondents says the march was a rare show of cohesiveness in a country wracked by political tensions between reformist and conservative factions. I'm sorry, but you're going to have to go a few hundred miles further to convince me that Iran is just Canada with a different national sport. ------------------------------------------------------------ We did not treat the Americans badly. They left Iran in a relaxed mood. The embassy was active here after the revolution. We didn't have any problem with them. They started it. ---Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Black Dog Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Our superior weapons are no match for their mighty football chants. I shudder to think at how great a threat these radicals would be if they discovered such classics as "He's ginger, he's shit, he plays when no one's fit." or "F**k 'em all." Quote
M.Dancer Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Our superior weapons are no match for their mighty football chants. I shudder to think at how great a threat these radicals would be if they discovered such classics as "He's ginger, he's shit, he plays when no one's fit." or "F**k 'em all." Munch Munch Box Lunch How do you like your meat? Rah! Rah! Rah! ------ We Must, We Must We Must improve our Bust The Bigger the Better The Tighter the Sweater The Boys depend on Us! Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 I don't know, but that's irrelevant. How is it irrelevant? You take issue with "death to America" or "death to Britain", but you seem to have no problems with "death to Iran"... Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
DogOnPorch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 You take issue with "death to America" or "death to Britain", but you seem to have no problems with "death to Iran"... Could you provide a link to the American and/or Canadian crowd chanting "Death to Iran"? -------------------------------------------------------------- If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair. ---C. S. Lewis Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 I don't know, but that's irrelevant. How is it irrelevant? You take issue with "death to America" or "death to Britain", but you seem to have no problems with "death to Iran"... Far be it for moi to answer for Scooter.....but it is irrelevent simply becasue it doesn't happen. Hordes of people aren't given the day off to be herded to the local football stadium for a rousing rally of death where they will learn repeat and recite the latest anti zionist, anti jew, anti USA chants.... On a side note, back in the early 80 while buying some hash at concordia in montreal I found myself overwhelmed by a anti shah march....the crowd was mainly young modern westernized Persians (who would soon find the revolution bite them on the arse.....) and the lovely ladies of the local rent a trotskyite....(hot to trot) The chants were mindless, as all good chants seem to be...but if you try hard, they can be fun and you might get to stay up late with a wild eyed commie girl..... My favourite mangles.... Meth for the Shah, the Shah is a US Muppet... Death to This, Death to That, Death to the other thing..... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Are we to believe that all those people watching that football game were extremists? That seems highly unlikely from a probability point of view. One might assume that like most crowds, the vast majority of the people there would be somewhere on the moderate part of the spectrum. How about these 'extremists'? How do you know every person in the stadium was chanting "death or America (or Britain)"? Were you there? What's a moderate Muslim? How about the nearly 80% of Iranians who re-elected This Guy Khatami is regarded as Iran's first reformist president, since the focus of his campaign was on the rule of law, democracy and the inclusion of all Iranians in the political decision-making process...During Khatami's presidency, Iran's foreign policy had entered into a new phase; moving from confrontation to conciliation... Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Could you provide a link to the American and/or Canadian crowd chanting "Death to Iran"? Actions speak louder than words... CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Jan. 19-21, 2007. N=1,008 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. "If the U.S. government decides to take military action in Iran, would you favor or oppose it?" Favor 26% Oppose 68% Unsure 6% "If Iran continues to produce material that can be used to develop nuclear weapons, would you support or oppose the U.S. taking military action against Iran?" Support 52% Oppose 37% Unsure 11% "All in all, thinking about how things have gone in Iraq since the United States went to war there in March 2003, do you think the United States made the right decision in going to war in Iraq or made a mistake in going to war in Iraq?" Right decision 39% Mistake 59% Unsure 2% Sources: http://www.pollingreport.com/iran.htm and http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm 39% (or 52% or 26%, take your pick) of 300 million is how many?? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
M.Dancer Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Could you provide a link to the American and/or Canadian crowd chanting "Death to Iran"? Actions speak louder than words... CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Jan. 19-21, 2007. N=1,008 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. "If the U.S. government decides to take military action in Iran, would you favor or oppose it?" Favor 26% Oppose 68% Unsure 6% "If Iran continues to produce material that can be used to develop nuclear weapons, would you support or oppose the U.S. taking military action against Iran?" Support 52% Oppose 37% Unsure 11% "All in all, thinking about how things have gone in Iraq since the United States went to war there in March 2003, do you think the United States made the right decision in going to war in Iraq or made a mistake in going to war in Iraq?" Right decision 39% Mistake 59% Unsure 2% Sources: http://www.pollingreport.com/iran.htm and http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm 39% (or 52% or 26%, take your pick) of 300 million is how many?? No really, how many of those people would be chanting death to Iran? Come on and be serious..... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 How do you know every person in the stadium was chanting "death or America (or Britain)"? Were you there? Of course I wasn't there. But the reporters were. Were they lying, in your opinion? How about the nearly 80% of Iranians who re-elected This Guy Yet they still punish rape victims...yay. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4295111.stm He'd best reform a little harder. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There never will exist anything permanently noble and excellent in the character which is a stranger to resolute self-denial. ---Sir Walter Scott Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 No really, how many of those people would be chanting death to Iran? Come on and be serious..... Do you think it's wrong to chant "death to Iran" but it's ok to carry out in practice? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Of course I wasn't there. But the reporters were. Were they lying, in your opinion? Where did the reporters say every single person in the stadium was chanting death to America/Britain? Yet they still punish rape victims...yay. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4295111.stm He'd best reform a little harder. What does that have to do with Khatami or his supporters? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
M.Dancer Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Of course I wasn't there. But the reporters were. Were they lying, in your opinion? Where did the reporters say every single person in the stadium was chanting death to America/Britain? Yet they still punish rape victims...yay. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4295111.stm He'd best reform a little harder. What does that have to do with Khatami or his supporters? Khatami has no power. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Khatami has no power. I never said he did. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
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