Troop surge is working

[Canadian Blue]

What you and the other folks don't get is that hysteria over "bigotry" is what is going to lead us down the garden path.

Yeah, when did bigotry ever hurt anybody!!!

Meanwhile, CAIR and a host of Islamic "human rights" lobby groups are funded by Saudi Wahabbists, and resists every effort by moderate Muslims to denounce terror or extremism.

Who also happen to be allies of the United States. CAIR denounces terrorism on its website, so I wouldn't say they exactly resist efforts to denounce terrorism.

So while you piously close your eyes and cover your ears and refuse to speak any "evil", Islamists are sneaking in the back door.

Is that a sexual reference, or do you have evidence to show that the miniscule amount of Muslims in this country want to destroy us.

There are court challenges afoot to institute limited Sharia as regards family matters, court challenges over headscarves; all sorts of inroads that you'll no doubt defend on the grounds of "tolerance", and all adding up to eventual inroads and transformation of our society.

I'm still waiting to see if this transformation makes Canada an Islamic state.

What goes on in mosques in the UK today. It's in 6 parts, about 50 minutes in length, total.

You have just shown the most extreme part of the religion. There are plenty of extremists in every religion which would give you the creeps. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church.

[sunsettommy]

you guys can only kid yourself with your effort to conceal the racism you practice

shame on you

I think you'd better reread Liam's post above. There is nothing racist about it. His gripe, as is most of the West, has to do with the radical extreme fundamentalist muslim, not the religion as a whole.

I take issue with the extreme elements of a religion that routinely dehumanizes infidels and that subjugates women, that routinely spurns science and advancement.

But most of all, I tend to be mistrustful of a religion whose extreme elements refuse to acknowledge or admit that there is a valid separation between church and state, or that the rules of the mosque are not the rules of the courts, that the law as it applies to the heavenly realm is not the same as that which applies to the earthly realm.

using this argument to attack Islam (or any singled out religion) is nothing but racist - even if you guys are blind to it - it is real, it eats away at civilization and is as harmful to those who believe it as it is to those who it attacks

the truth is, none of those descriptions escape any extremist religious faction and there are NOT more muslim extremist sects than there are Buddhist, Christian or Jewish extremist sects -- you can hide from it but you can't change the truth

Aw geez and I thought LIAM was being specific about the EXTREMIST members of Islam.He did not condemn the religion itself.

Come on Guthrie!

So attacking extremist members of RELIGIONS is a racist act?

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Try reading a dictionary next time.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist

[sunsettommy]

And the funny part is that with Saddam in power Iraq was a safer place for both Iraqis and USA.

Huh?

What happened to the few 100,000's Iraqi's who died under the benovolent rule of Iraq?

[bush_cheney2004]

Huh?

What happened to the few 100,000's Iraqi's who died under the benovolent rule of Iraq?

Good point...apparently our resident bleeding hearts didn't give a rat's ass about Iraqis before the UK/US/AUS invasion.

[jdobbin]

No, the topic is the efficacy of the Troop Surge...accordingly and with much delight:

Do you have the latest numbers on the effectiveness of that strategy?

[BubberMiley]

I guess it's possible to convince people the surge is working just by saying it is, just so long as they aren't paying any attention whatsoever. Fortunately, most of the Seinfelds are too content watching reruns on their plasmas to concern themselves too deeply.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/070331/...ational_iraq_dc

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you have the latest numbers on the effectiveness of that strategy?

It's a mixed bag....but more significant has been the local's adjustment to garrisons of policing forces instead of patrols and reaction to insurgent attacks from afar. It may not make any difference in the end, but new tactics to keep toeholds is a welcomed change from the past if it enables the return of economic activity with better odds. Still, Sunni's who try to join any local government effort are just as soon targeted. These folks hate each other more than the Americans.

The surge will not stop a determined insurgency, but it can prolong the fledgling government's chances of reaching a political solution. The IRA didn't roll over in just four years either, and the option to leave is only one presidential election away.

[jdobbin]

It's a mixed bag....but more significant has been the local's adjustment to garrisons of policing forces instead of patrols and reaction to insurgent attacks from afar. It may not make any difference in the end, but new tactics to keep toeholds is a welcomed change from the past if it enables the return of economic activity with better odds. Still, Sunni's who try to join any local government effort are just as soon targeted. These folks hate each other more than the Americans.

The surge will not stop a determined insurgency, but it can prolong the fledgling government's chances of reaching a political solution. The IRA didn't roll over in just four years either, and the option to leave is only one presidential election away.

Iraq seemed to be itching for this reckoning with each other long before the U.S. arrived. I just don't think the U.S. or anyone else can get enough boots on the ground to prevent them from killing each other.

[weaponeer]

A troop surge will not help in Iraq unless it is surged to 500K. So many US troops the insurgents cannot move.

The prob here is that the war was lost in the beginning. The US went in with a Mech Inf Div, a Marine Div, and a few supporting brigades. Enough to defeat the Iraqi army, yes, not nearly enough to occupy a country and control it's population.

The US Army COS told Rummy before the invasion not to start a 15 Division war with a 10 Divisin army and was fired for it. Not only did Rummy not send in enough troops, he closed Walter Reed hospital in Washington when they needed it the most.

I was deployed to the sandbox at the beginning of OIF. They short changed OEF, for OIF bigtime.... UBL was not in Iraq, we let Iran off the hook in the early days of the War on Terror. we blew it...

Time to regroup, and get it right.....

[bush_cheney2004]

Iraq seemed to be itching for this reckoning with each other long before the U.S. arrived. I just don't think the U.S. or anyone else can out enough boots on the ground to prevent them from killing each other.

Agreed...the invasion simply removed the very thin (but brutal) veneer of stability. The Kurds knew the score a long time ago. The Americans needed their civil war to resolve "issues"...perhaps Iraq does too.

[Canadian Blue]

Huh?

What happened to the few 100,000's Iraqi's who died under the benovolent rule of Iraq?

Yes, but at the same time how many lives have been lost after the invasion. Some would rather find a different solution outside of war, is the war really worth the cost.

Good point...apparently our resident bleeding hearts didn't give a rat's ass about Iraqis before the UK/US/AUS invasion.

Apparently right wingers didn't give a rat's ass in the 1980's when Saddam Hussein was dictator. If you want to play that game, I'm sure that we can show how both sides are guilty of the same BS.

I don't really see any solution in sight to end the war, and I think it may simply end in the country being divided. In my own opinion it seems that option would save more lives, and hopefully cut down on some of the violence being perpetrated, remember I said SOME.

[bush_cheney2004]

Apparently right wingers didn't give a rat's ass in the 1980's when Saddam Hussein was dictator. If you want to play that game, I'm sure that we can show how both sides are guilty of the same BS.

I don't really see any solution in sight to end the war, and I think it may simply end in the country being divided. In my own opinion it seems that option would save more lives, and hopefully cut down on some of the violence being perpetrated, remember I said SOME.

Not sure what you mean....I have always been indifferent to the plight of Iraqis (or Iranians), whether bombing, sanctioning, or invading. "Cutting down" on the violence now is a bit disingenuous after doing everything possible to kill SOME Iraqis for the past 16 years.

The overall strategy of shoving a Yankee coalition boot in Iraq's ass to mix things up has certainly worked. No more Saddam masks on Halloween.

[Guthrie]

...

I disregard anything Guthrie says, if we were fighting a war against Mexico I'm sure he'd be accusing us all of being racist against Latinos, he cant decipher the fact that there is no Islamic race. Its a religion. And please don't tell me what i should and should not be ashamed of, especially when you can not tell the difference between a religion and a race of people.

We're not fighting a war against Islam -- suggesting we are, is just more bigotry. Further, this dodge about there being no 'Islamic Race,' is just that, a dodge. The fact is, there are no races at all just the human race. No white race, or black race or asian race. Unfortunately, racists never get that fact and hammer that tired line of, 'no gypsy race' or whatever.

Disregard what you like - I happen to be speaking the truth but you can go ahead and disregard it if you like.

[Canadian Blue]

Not sure what you mean....I have always been indifferent to the plight of Iraqis (or Iranians), whether bombing, sanctioning, or invading. "Cutting down" on the violence now is a bit disingenuous after doing everything possible to kill SOME Iraqis for the past 16 years.

It hasn't been working either, I think that as we now know America would have been much better off by staying out of Iraq. I think that dividing the country may be the only option, and I don't see the violence going down in the near future.

The overall strategy of shoving a Yankee coalition boot in Iraq's ass to mix things up has certainly worked. No more Saddam masks on Halloween.

Well, I guess it has worked if you think success is dependant on the American and civilian deathcount in Iraq.

[ScottSA]

You have just shown the most extreme part of the religion. There are plenty of extremists in every religion which would give you the creeps. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church.

I guess I'll never understand the wilfull blindness of some. The documentary was filmed covertly in numerous MAINSTREAM British mosques. Had you actually watched the documentary you would know that. This does not go on in anything like this scale in Christianity. You could look all over what used to be Christendom and you might find a bare handful of ten member allegedly Christian cults preaching outright hatred of pigs and apes Jews and the utter subjegation of women, not to mention advocating violence against the infidel. Yet here's a documentary with videotaped proof that this goes on in numerous mainstream mosques across Britain as a matter of course, and your response is to point at some lame counterexample in denial. See what I mean? You will argue about everything regardless of whether you know a damned thing about it. There is absolutely no comparison between today's Christianity and today's Islam. Just as an indicator, there are two hundred and forty something self-identified "Muslim" terror groups afoot in the world, all over the globe. All fighting for Islam and not nationalist or territorial reasons. Today. You can't find a fraction of that in Christianity.

[Liam]

No. I'm not a racist. I said what I said because the subject of the thread turned to focus on Islam. Believe me, when the eventual post starts concerning Christianists, just wait till you see the can of whoop @ss I unload. I have absolutely nothing against Muslims. But I am against extremists -- of all faiths. It's just that the topic at hand happens to be of Islam.

No, the topic is the efficacy of the Troop Surge...accordingly and with much delight:

You should start a thread on that issue, I'm sure it will be a lively discussion, because it is off topic to the original post concerning troop surge strategy.

... been waiting much to say that? Fine (and fair enough). I'll take my own advice. New thread titled "Is it racist to hate Muslim extremists?" starting momentarily.

[Canadian Blue]

Just as an indicator, there are two hundred and forty something self-identified "Muslim" terror groups afoot in the world, all over the globe. All fighting for Islam and not nationalist or territorial reasons.

Once again read Middle Eastern history from 1945 to the present. I think that there was a conflict between Israelis, and another group of people, I forget who they were.

If you think that the only reason why these people are terrorists is because of their religion, I'd say you are 110% wrong.

You can't find a fraction of that in Christianity.

I'm sure if someone was to take my home away from me, and then throw me in a refugee camp I would be a little bit bitter about that. As well their are Christian terrorists afoot, I believe one supposedly Christian poster lamented on here how we should be bombing more civilian's.

[weaponeer]

Just as an indicator, there are two hundred and forty something self-identified "Muslim" terror groups afoot in the world, all over the globe. All fighting for Islam and not nationalist or territorial reasons.

Once again read Middle Eastern history from 1945 to the present. I think that there was a conflict between Israelis, and another group of people, I forget who they were.

If you think that the only reason why these people are terrorists is because of their religion, I'd say you are 110% wrong.

You can't find a fraction of that in Christianity.

I'm sure if someone was to take my home away from me, and then throw me in a refugee camp I would be a little bit bitter about that. As well their are Christian terrorists afoot, I believe one supposedly Christian poster lamented on here how we should be bombing more civilian's.

Not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim theses days.

[Guthrie]

Just as an indicator, there are two hundred and forty something self-identified "Muslim" terror groups afoot in the world, all over the globe. All fighting for Islam and not nationalist or territorial reasons.

Once again read Middle Eastern history from 1945 to the present. I think that there was a conflict between Israelis, and another group of people, I forget who they were.

If you think that the only reason why these people are terrorists is because of their religion, I'd say you are 110% wrong.

You can't find a fraction of that in Christianity.

I'm sure if someone was to take my home away from me, and then throw me in a refugee camp I would be a little bit bitter about that. As well their are Christian terrorists afoot, I believe one supposedly Christian poster lamented on here how we should be bombing more civilian's.

Not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim theses days.

how did you make that determination? do you have published information to back up such a claim????

I don't believe it's true. I believe it is just prejudice... bigotry...

[weaponeer]

Just as an indicator, there are two hundred and forty something self-identified "Muslim" terror groups afoot in the world, all over the globe. All fighting for Islam and not nationalist or territorial reasons.

Once again read Middle Eastern history from 1945 to the present. I think that there was a conflict between Israelis, and another group of people, I forget who they were.

If you think that the only reason why these people are terrorists is because of their religion, I'd say you are 110% wrong.

You can't find a fraction of that in Christianity.

I'm sure if someone was to take my home away from me, and then throw me in a refugee camp I would be a little bit bitter about that. As well their are Christian terrorists afoot, I believe one supposedly Christian poster lamented on here how we should be bombing more civilian's.

Not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim theses days.

how did you make that determination? do you have published information to back up such a claim????

I don't believe it's true. I believe it is just prejudice... bigotry...

You need to get a little thicker skin. Reality can be very disappointing. Turn on the TV, listen to the news.

When is the last time anyone from Sweden blew up an airliner. Have you ever heard of a Dutch suicide bomber. Has anyone from Fiji chopped the head off an infidel on the internet??? How many Buddists have said join us, convert or die???

I said NOT ALL muslims are terrorist, but most terrorists are muslim. It is not bigotry, it is reality. I am not going to cower in the corner affraid of political correctness, just because some weak knee people do not want to hear the truth. Islam has big problems, they seem to be the only religion who cannot play nice with others. I have been in Afghanistan, Saudi, Kuwait, and several other islamic countries. Some of my really good friends are muslim. Even they have said Islam has a major problem.

Yes, there have been many incidents on others committing terrorist acts, but I am talking about the here & now, not the then & there.

The reality of today at 0044, 2 Apr 2007 is that most terrorists are muslim.........

What does any of this have to do with the troop surge anyhow?????

[Guthrie]

Just as an indicator, there are two hundred and forty something self-identified "Muslim" terror groups afoot in the world, all over the globe. All fighting for Islam and not nationalist or territorial reasons.

Once again read Middle Eastern history from 1945 to the present. I think that there was a conflict between Israelis, and another group of people, I forget who they were.

If you think that the only reason why these people are terrorists is because of their religion, I'd say you are 110% wrong.

You can't find a fraction of that in Christianity.

I'm sure if someone was to take my home away from me, and then throw me in a refugee camp I would be a little bit bitter about that. As well their are Christian terrorists afoot, I believe one supposedly Christian poster lamented on here how we should be bombing more civilian's.

Not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim theses days.

how did you make that determination? do you have published information to back up such a claim????

I don't believe it's true. I believe it is just prejudice... bigotry...

You need to get a little thicker skin. Reality can be very disappointing. Turn on the TV, listen to the news.

When is the last time anyone from Sweden blew up an airliner. Have you ever heard of a Dutch suicide bomber. Has anyone from Fiji chopped the head off an infidel on the internet??? How many Buddists have said join us, convert or die???

I said NOT ALL muslims are terrorist, but most terrorists are muslim. It is not bigotry, it is reality. I am not going to cower in the corner affraid of political correctness, just because some weak knee people do not want to hear the truth. Islam has big problems, they seem to be the only religion who cannot play nice with others. I have been in Afghanistan, Saudi, Kuwait, and several other islamic countries. Some of my really good friends are muslim. Even they have said Islam has a major problem.

Yes, there have been many incidents on others committing terrorist acts, but I am talking about the here & now, not the then & there.

The reality of today at 0044, 2 Apr 2007 is that most terrorists are muslim.........

What does any of this have to do with the troop surge anyhow?????

I don't need thicker skin, you need thicker evidence. If you have it show it, otherwise you are just spouting bullroar.

[weaponeer]

Just as an indicator, there are two hundred and forty something self-identified "Muslim" terror groups afoot in the world, all over the globe. All fighting for Islam and not nationalist or territorial reasons.

Once again read Middle Eastern history from 1945 to the present. I think that there was a conflict between Israelis, and another group of people, I forget who they were.

If you think that the only reason why these people are terrorists is because of their religion, I'd say you are 110% wrong.

You can't find a fraction of that in Christianity.

I'm sure if someone was to take my home away from me, and then throw me in a refugee camp I would be a little bit bitter about that. As well their are Christian terrorists afoot, I believe one supposedly Christian poster lamented on here how we should be bombing more civilian's.

Not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim theses days.

how did you make that determination? do you have published information to back up such a claim????

I don't believe it's true. I believe it is just prejudice... bigotry...

You need to get a little thicker skin. Reality can be very disappointing. Turn on the TV, listen to the news.

When is the last time anyone from Sweden blew up an airliner. Have you ever heard of a Dutch suicide bomber. Has anyone from Fiji chopped the head off an infidel on the internet??? How many Buddists have said join us, convert or die???

I said NOT ALL muslims are terrorist, but most terrorists are muslim. It is not bigotry, it is reality. I am not going to cower in the corner affraid of political correctness, just because some weak knee people do not want to hear the truth. Islam has big problems, they seem to be the only religion who cannot play nice with others. I have been in Afghanistan, Saudi, Kuwait, and several other islamic countries. Some of my really good friends are muslim. Even they have said Islam has a major problem.

Yes, there have been many incidents on others committing terrorist acts, but I am talking about the here & now, not the then & there.

The reality of today at 0044, 2 Apr 2007 is that most terrorists are muslim.........

What does any of this have to do with the troop surge anyhow?????

I don't need thicker skin, you need thicker evidence. If you have it show it, otherwise you are just spouting bullroar.

Yes you do need thicker skin. It's people like you who cannot handle the ugliness of reality that force us to put up with this muslim radical BS. We can't take care of them because someone might get upset, their felling will be hurt:(

Evidence, turn on the TV, watch the news. Read a paper.

Would you take your family to Syria, Pakistan, Iran or Yeman on vacation???? Didn't think so....

Not every German was a nazi, but almost every nazi was German...........

Again, what does this have to do with an Iraq troop surge????????

[weaponeer]

Sorry,

That's "feelings" not fellings. Midnight shift, getting tired:)

[Guthrie]

...Evidence, turn on the TV, watch the news. Read a paper.

I should scan the media for evidence because you don't have any, no thanks???

Would you take your family to Syria, Pakistan, Iran or Yeman on vacation???? Didn't think so....

Yes I would, your dimwitted assumptions aside.

Not every German was a nazi, but almost every nazi was German...........

No, not almost every nazi was German

Again, what does this have to do with an Iraq troop surge????????

troop surge? your the one who abandoned the troop surge discussion

if you can't defend a position with anything better than saying you and all your buddies on the corner agree, don't bother

[guyser]

...Evidence, turn on the TV, watch the news. Read a paper.

I should scan the media for evidence because you don't have any, no thanks???

Come on, left right middle it does not matter. Some things are true without posting evidence.

The sun rises in the east, summer follows spring and most terrorists are Muslim these days.