Has Christianity made people more civilized?

[Vyatish]

Without religion; boarders (both moral and ethic) would never have been as enforced or even established, creating a tightly bound society. Whether or not you believe in the ideals or not, religion forces you to learn through discipline, and in turn creating a more mature and developed adult.

[Frankie]

The word Christ means to be "annoited with knowledge" or "being in a state of knowledge" the state of being in/annoited with knowledge is a verb, as it is an action.

You're right Catchme. To a certain degree. The word Christ was originally a noun used as far back as the old testament, and in many other parts of the Bible to refer to the Messiah, or later known as Jesus. Over time it has evolved to be used in other contexts such as what you suggested.

And again, please do remember there is no such man known as Jesus, in history, to be annoited with knowledge even.

Who told you that?

[Leafless]

But in this country it is no longer required, as we have the Liberals and the Charter to advance us all to being 'elite citizens of the world'.

Part I of the Charter does begin: "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:"

Yeah!

To bad it's only in the preamble and not included as law within the Charter itself.

[newbie]

No doubt Christianity has served its purpose pertaining and relating to the advancement of civilization.

Yeah, but then there were those nasty crusades and the Spanish Inquistion, and the witch burnings and...........

[Figleaf]

To bad it's only in the preamble and not included as law within the Charter itself.

Thank goodness it's just a throwaway piece of preambular whimsy rather than bringing our constitution back to the dark ages.

[AndrewL]

VATICAN CITY: Pope Benedict strongly criticised the European Union yesterday for excluding a mention of God and Europe's Christian roots in declarations marking the 50th anniversary of its founding. In a toughly-worded speech to European bishops, Benedict said Europe was committing a form of "apostasy of itself" and was thus doubting its own identity. The Pope, who like his predecessor John Paul has often called for a mention of God and Christianity in the European Constitution, said leaders could not exclude values that helped forge the "very soul" of the continent. "If on the 50th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome the governments of the Union want to get closer to their citizens, how can they exclude an element as essential to the identity of Europe as Christianity, in which the vast majority of its people continue to identify," he said. Pope warned that Europe's revival could be threatened if it forgets its Christian roots and embraces a "peculiar form of apostasy."

Kuwait Times

My question is broader. Has Christianity made our world more civilized? I think so.

Without Christianity, our world today would be nastier.

I think there is no doubt that christianity taught poeple that wilderness/indigeneous was evil, and that domesticated apes in the city were good. This is precisely how we justify the slaughter of native peoples and the theft of their lands - with a deep seeded belief if their inherent badness (or lack of christianity).

Civilization is from the beginning based on theft and murder. It is nothing to be proud of, nor is Christianity.

Andrew

[jbg]

But in this country it is no longer required, as we have the Liberals and the Charter to advance us all to being 'elite citizens of the world'.

Part I of the Charter does begin: "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:"

Yeah! To bad it's only in the preamble and not included as law within the Charter itself.

In ours, the preamble is the most important part:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[Figleaf]

Civilization is from the beginning based on theft and murder. It is nothing to be proud of, ...

:snort:

Civilization may have some drawbacks, but I'm GLAD of it. Plumbing, medicine, corrective lenses, dentistry, recorded music, publishing -- Wow! I sure wouldn't want to do without those things.

[jbg]

I think there is no doubt that christianity taught poeple that wilderness/indigeneous was evil, and that domesticated apes in the city were good. This is precisely how we justify the slaughter of native peoples and the theft of their lands - with a deep seeded belief if their inherent badness (or lack of christianity). Civilization is from the beginning based on theft and murder. It is nothing to be proud of, nor is Christianity.

What a hateful, bigoted post. First, most "native" people died of smallpox, not "murder". Second of all, your standard of living depends on 'civilization'. If society had to be watching its backside constantly it couldn't be productive.

[Remiel]

To say that most of the the indigenous people died of small pox, without mentioning that some rather unscrupulous types did their best to encourage that very phenomenon, is quite disingenuous if you ask me. I do not know what portion of the small pox deaths could be attributed to these hostile actions, but chances are it could be a very substantial portion.

[jbg]

To say that most of the the indigenous people died of small pox, without mentioning that some rather unscrupulous types did their best to encourage that very phenomenon, is quite disingenuous if you ask me. I do not know what portion of the small pox deaths could be attributed to these hostile actions, but chances are it could be a very substantial portion.

Excuse me.

Hernando de Soto's pigs spread far and wide from Florida, and before the colonists reached Plymouth Rock (Massachusetts) Native Americans were reeling from epidemics. About 95% of their previous population of around 25 million in the Americas was gone without even physically seeing "whitey".

[Canadian Blue]

JBG, you are aware of the smallpox blankets that were handed out to Native American's.

[jbg]

JBG, you are aware of the smallpox blankets that were handed out to Native American's.

That would be an atrocity. That did not account for most of the spread of the disease. And smallpox was far from the only disease DeSoto's pigs spread.

[Posit]

That and the filthy "bath-once-a-year-if we happen-to-be-near-water" Jesuits caused the majority of the deaths. The sad thing about the small pox blankets is that it was an attempt at biological warfare by our descendants to wipe out an entire race of people. Another shameful thing in our history....

[White Doors]

I do think Christianity has had a positive impact, but how can we determine if the same impact wouldn't have happened without it? If Christianity had never existed, some other mythology would have filled that void, and we would be talking about the net positive impact of that belief system. The possibilities are endless - whose to say a better one wouldn't have evolved? Or a worse one?

Pretty easy I think. Most of the rest of the countries of the world have founding religions that are not Christian. Japan is the only one that makes it to the G8. Coincidentally or not, after having been on the losing side of a war by a country founded on Christian ethics and then made their constitution for them.

[White Doors]

That and the filthy "bath-once-a-year-if we happen-to-be-near-water" Jesuits caused the majority of the deaths. The sad thing about the small pox blankets is that it was an attempt at biological warfare by our descendants to wipe out an entire race of people. Another shameful thing in our history....

Oh Jesus.. First of all, they had no idea what smallpox was and like jbg said, 95% of the natives died without even knowing 'whitey' was on the shores. They died because they had no agrictulture. As a result they had no built in immunity to diseases of cow, pigs, birds etc.

No matter how evil some of you think 'whitey' was - 'whitey' did not and could not have engineered this.

'Whitey' had simply gone through the same thing thousands of years before and the survivors had some immunity.

Simple as that. It was not a holocaust by any stretch of the imagination.

Get off your white guilt, PC horses and look at the facts.

[Drea]

Small pox infected blankets were purposely given to the native peoples.

What part of "on purpose" do you not understand?

[White Doors]

Small pox infected blankets were purposely given to the native peoples.

What part of "on purpose" do you not understand?

So it is your assertion that All tne natives died because of that practice?

ie: If they didn't give them these blankets they wouldn't have died?

hint: they were already dying. They saw that they were, had no idea why and tried that.

It is one specific reference and there has been many disputes as to even it's veracity.

What part of 'thick' do you not understand?

[jbg]

No matter how evil some of you think 'whitey' was - 'whitey' did not and could not have engineered this.

'Whitey' had simply gone through the same thing thousands of years before and the survivors had some immunity.

One of the reasons that "whitey" made such an impact on the Americas and Australia, and almost no impact on Africa and Asia, was that the common land mass supported frequent local transmissions of disease. The people living in the Americas and Australia, cut off from the Eurasian/African land mass, died out rapidly after the arrival of the initial colonists.

The Europeans were thus filling empty continents. Do you really think North America would be largely white if the European colonists had to contend with 25 million Native Americans?

[August1991]

Rather than hijack Betsy's otherwise good thread, I thought that I would ressurect this old thread/poll - on the occasion of the Catholic and Orthodox Easter.

Resurrection is the very foundation of all Christianity.

It is the proof, the power and the promise.

Thanks be to God.

Betsy, I think forgiveness is the key contribution of Christianity to civilization. But perhaps resurrection is just a metaphor for forgiveness.

[cybercoma]

The Resurrection answers the problem of the Fall. Humanity sinned in the garden and inherits that sin through the carnal act of conception. We are all deserving of God's punishment, which was death. How then is God benevolent? He offers His son to humanity. Our sins are put onto the sacrificial lamb that is tortured and put to death in our place. In order to be saved by God's benevolence, we need only to believe that Jesus was sacrificed for us. We deserve our punishment from God for sinning against Him, but God loves us so He allows Jesus to accept our punishment. The Resurrection is not only a metaphor for forgiveness, it is the forgiveness.

[WIP]

Poll question: Has Christianity made people more civilized?, Benoit XVI & Europe

For the most part - NO. Before Christianity, religion was tribally based, and the few wealthy people who could afford to travel, like the Greek historian Herodotus, assumed that every foreign land had roughly equivalent gods and goddesses, so the wealthy Greek, Persian and Egyptian traveller, would go to a foreign city's main temple to make an offering to their gods while they were on the road. The temple in Jerusalem even made provision for foreigners to make sacrificial offerings to Yahweh while they were in Jerusalem.

When nations were conquered, the victors had no interest in changing the religion of the locals. But, all this changed when the 4th Century Roman emperor - Constantine, decided that the rapidly growing Christian religion could provide the unifying force for an aging, decrepit empire that was falling apart. This new religion eventually got around to mandatory membership, and religious wars and forcing conversions on colonized populations became the standard for many centuries afterward.

Things wouldn't have been so bad, except that a certain Arab merchant created a religion that put his people as the center of God's focus, and also demanded that everybody would have to join. So now, we have two religions with over a billion people each, that claim to be the only legitimate religions in the world....and we wonder why the world is such a dangerous place today!

[cybercoma]

That just about sums things up, doesn't it?

[CANADIEN]

Oh Jesus.. First of all, they had no idea what smallpox was and like jbg said, 95% of the natives died without even knowing 'whitey' was on the shores. They died because they had no agrictulture. As a result they had no built in immunity to diseases of cow, pigs, birds etc.

Ahem, some historiansw have compared, on the basis of contemporary accounts, field yields in Huronia and France in the early 17th century. Guess who has the best one?

So no, there were no pigs, no cows, no chickens. But more than a few First nations in the Americas knew agriculture.

As for the "it was just the epidemics" idea, it conviniently forgets was launched by settlers in North America to displace/leiminate First nations, the conquests of Mexico and the Inca empires, raids by slavers in Brazil, forced labour in mines throughout Spanish America, residential schools.

This is not about guilt, and yes there is not a single nation, a single culture on this planet with no blood on their hands. Does not change the facts.

[cybercoma]

What is this stuff about there was no pigs, cows and chickens? Who needs pigs, cows and chickens anyway? They weren't farming animals because it wasn't necessary for them to be. When Europeans brought their way of life to the Americas, they not only destroyed the indigenous people with foreign disease, but they destroyed the indigenous way of life. The foreign practices of the Europeans brought disease, permanently altered eco systems, and destroyed arable lands. The indigenous peoples sustainable way of living would never support the number of people living on these lands now, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we destroyed their perfectly sustainable way of life.