Tory attacks on Dion

[Argus]

IMO, only an idiot would not expect the government to explain themself.

The governmente has explained itself many times. Unfortunately, idiots either don't listen or don't understand.

[Who's Doing What?]

As far as you're concerned anyone not on the left side of the political spectrum can be dismissed with the all enclusive pejorative sneer "neo con".

Now if I switched "left side" with "right side" and "neo-con" with "liberal fanatic" that would sound just like you Argus.

[Argus]

As far as you're concerned anyone not on the left side of the political spectrum can be dismissed with the all enclusive pejorative sneer "neo con".

Now if I switched "left side" with "right side" and "neo-con" with "liberal fanatic" that would sound just like you Argus.

Nonsense. There are people here who are moderate leftists and I freely acknowledge that. You can see that I respond differently to them than to say... you.

[Who's Doing What?]

As far as you're concerned anyone not on the left side of the political spectrum can be dismissed with the all enclusive pejorative sneer "neo con".

Now if I switched "left side" with "right side" and "neo-con" with "liberal fanatic" that would sound just like you Argus.

Nonsense.

Yes usually the partisan drivel spewing from you is complete nonsense.

[Figleaf]

I see only one leader with the guts to be able to take the wheel on issues like these. Should Dion become Captain, we'll all be holding on to a piece of the ship like Leonardo saying goodbye to Rose.

It's like someone issued a special 'Project Get Dion' phrase-book to party members when they rolled out the negative ad campaign.

[Figleaf]

"Why are fringe leftists so ashamed of what they are they can't admit it?"

Sorta like how the CPCers have hissy-fits whenever someone correctly points out that Harper is a neo-con?

You don't even know what a "neo con" is, much less own the ability to compare it to conservativism. As far as you're concerned anyone not on the left side of the political spectrum can be dismissed with the all enclusive pejorative sneer "neo con".

And there's Argus, helpfully delivering the predicted hissy-fit.

[Argus]

"Why are fringe leftists so ashamed of what they are they can't admit it?"

Sorta like how the CPCers have hissy-fits whenever someone correctly points out that Harper is a neo-con?

You don't even know what a "neo con" is, much less own the ability to compare it to conservativism. As far as you're concerned anyone not on the left side of the political spectrum can be dismissed with the all enclusive pejorative sneer "neo con".

And there's Argus, helpfully delivering the predicted hissy-fit.

Tell us why you're ashamed of being a Leftist.

[Shakeyhands]

it would be interesting ot see where some thought others sat on the political scale, to be sure.

[noahbody]

I see only one leader with the guts to be able to take the wheel on issues like these. Should Dion become Captain, we'll all be holding on to a piece of the ship like Leonardo saying goodbye to Rose.

It's like someone issued a special 'Project Get Dion' phrase-book to party members when they rolled out the negative ad campaign.

Nope, not a party member or loyal to any party. As an ad guy I would say it was poor strategy, mainly because it positoned Harper/Dion as foe against foe; two leaders of parties verses positioning Harper as the leader of the country/minority government. By his abilility to make unpopular decisions and make certain compromises in my belief Harper has showed he's the latter. Their communication strategies don't get it and are obviously as party members trying to do what's best for the party and not the country. Luckily none of them are PM.

I would add the Liberals, if elected would do what's popular regardless of the consquences (defender of medicare, etc) to stay in power. Canada is up against the wall on issues like this. Politicizing important issues for political gain instead of solving problems and doing what's best for the country is the Liberal track record.

[Michael Bluth]

I would add the Liberals, if elected would do what's popular regardless of the consquences (defender of medicare, etc) to stay in power. Canada is up against the wall on issues like this. Politicizing important issues for political gain instead of solving problems and doing what's best for the country is the Liberal track record.

Even that can be carried to the extreme. *cough* *cough* Paul Martin, aka, the most unsuccessful Liberal leader to date.

When Harper wins a majority this spring and Dion is forced to resign it will be interesting to see who is judged more harshly ... Dion or Martin.

[Figleaf]

"Why are fringe leftists so ashamed of what they are they can't admit it?"

Sorta like how the CPCers have hissy-fits whenever someone correctly points out that Harper is a neo-con?

You don't even know what a "neo con" is, much less own the ability to compare it to conservativism. As far as you're concerned anyone not on the left side of the political spectrum can be dismissed with the all enclusive pejorative sneer "neo con".

And there's Argus, helpfully delivering the predicted hissy-fit.

Tell us why you're ashamed of being a Leftist.

You think I'm a leftist?!

[stignasty]

You think I'm a leftist?!

Well, obviously anyone who doesn't bow down and worship at he alter of our beloved Prime Minister and the "New Government" of Canada is a leftist. Duh!

[SamStranger]

... continually demonizing Harper for the past three years - far, far right wing....take away your rights, destroy Canada....soldiers in the city....stack the courts with right wing judges....bush clone....war monger......against immigration, blah, blah, blah, over and over.

But Harper is far right, does want to take away rights, would destroy Canada if we let him, and is stacking the courts.

Yeah , Harper is sooo right-wing. He actually has the balls to say God-bless after a speech (right-wing?) He actually is not afraid to say He supports the TRADITIONAL law of marriage (right-wing?) He has credibillity on cutting taxes ($20 billion worth) and getting tough on crime (right-wing?)

If being Right-Wing means all those things, then what the hell is left-wing?

Yeah, Dion is sooo left-wing. He has no balls at all. He voted AGAINST Same-sex marriage in 2000, then voted for it in 2003, then against re-opening it in 2006. He would love to raise our taxes, first by scrapping plans to cut the GST by another percentage point- and going wild on raising income taxes. Dion would love to give a hug to every street thug in toronto, and give them money for pot and crack.

God bless Canada- Stephen Harper, Campaign stop in Toronto.

[Michael Bluth]

You think I'm a leftist?!

Look at the choices you offered in your poll. Either way the Conservatives are bad guys as a result.

Naw a leftist would never offer a false choice to make a party of the right look had....

[Figleaf]

You think I'm a leftist?!

Look at the choices you offered in your poll. Either way the Conservatives are bad guys as a result.

Naw a leftist would never offer a false choice to make a party of the right look had....

I'm quite sure a leftist would want to make the right look bad, but when the right already looks bad, you can count on a classical liberal such as myself to point it out too.

[Michael Bluth]

I'm quite sure a leftist would want to make the right look bad, but when the right already looks bad, you can count on a classical liberal such as myself to point it out too.

Call yourself what you will, but you offered only choices that fit your pre-conception of the world.

Why not see if there are people who actually thought the ads were smart politcs? fairly pointed out Dion's flaws? just the way the game is played?

That would be fair wouldn't it? Isn't that all classical Liberals ask for? Fairness in the rules and may the best man win...

[Catchme]

Attack ads from whom?

[scribblet]

I didn't vote as I don't agree with the statement "The CPC false advertisements ' etc. from this obvious push poll. It is a leading question with no choice, it can only give a result the poll owner wants to hear and has allready defined for anyone voting.

All the Tories are doing is giving Dion enough rope to hang himself and besides, the ads are no worse than any the Liberals have put out.

Dion however may be taking a page from a conservative platform on tax cutting as he is losing on most other fronts. Take a look at a statement he made recently. Maybe he figures the only way he can get some momentum is to offer the plebes some tax cuts.

"Taxes have a powerful impact on people's behaviour," Mr. Dion said, sounding like a supply sider. "If you cut the GST, you encourage consumption. On the other hand, if you cut income tax, you encourage Canadians to save and invest, increasing our productivity."

"As prime minister, I would not cut a second point from the GST. Instead, I would help grow the economy by ensuring that income taxes are low and that taxes on business and investment are competitive," Mr. Dion said.

[Argus]

"Why are fringe leftists so ashamed of what they are they can't admit it?"

Sorta like how the CPCers have hissy-fits whenever someone correctly points out that Harper is a neo-con?

You don't even know what a "neo con" is, much less own the ability to compare it to conservativism. As far as you're concerned anyone not on the left side of the political spectrum can be dismissed with the all enclusive pejorative sneer "neo con".

And there's Argus, helpfully delivering the predicted hissy-fit.

Tell us why you're ashamed of being a Leftist.

You think I'm a leftist?!

I would be surprised if there were anyone here who doesn't. Honestly. You have nothing but contempt for all conservative symbols, for the party, and for Harper.

[Argus]

You think I'm a leftist?!

Look at the choices you offered in your poll. Either way the Conservatives are bad guys as a result.

Naw a leftist would never offer a false choice to make a party of the right look had....

I'm quite sure a leftist would want to make the right look bad, but when the right already looks bad, you can count on a classical liberal such as myself to point it out too.

You are as much a classical liberal as Fidel Castro. I am closer to being a classical liberal than you will ever be.

[Figleaf]

I'm quite sure a leftist would want to make the right look bad, but when the right already looks bad, you can count on a classical liberal such as myself to point it out too.

Call yourself what you will, but you offered only choices that fit your pre-conception of the world.

No, I only offered choices that didn't fit yours.

Why not see if there are people who actually thought the ads were smart politcs?

I don't doubt there are. Why investigate what is a virtual certainty?

That would be fair wouldn't it?

"Fair"? You want to inject that consideration at this late juncture?!?

Isn't that all classical Liberals ask for? Fairness in the rules and may the best man win...

Certainly. Everybody start being fair and I'll be right there with you.

[Figleaf]

... this obvious push poll. It is a leading question with no choice, it can only give a result the poll owner wants to hear and has allready defined for anyone voting.

Well put.

All the Tories are doing is giving Dion enough rope to hang himself ...

No, they are trying very hard to do it for him.

[Figleaf]

You are as much a classical liberal as Fidel Castro. I am closer to being a classical liberal than you will ever be.

I have the feeling you have a profound misunderstanding of classical liberalism.

You think I'm a leftist?!

I would be surprised if there were anyone here who doesn't. Honestly. You have nothing but contempt for all conservative symbols, for the party, and for Harper.

Working backward through your comment:

Harper: I actually have a mild grudging respect for Harper, I just happen to think his ideology is wrongheaded and that he has contempt for the institutions and values I think are important.

The Conservative Party: Yes, I have contempt for the Conservative Party.

Conservative symbols: I have no idea what you mean by conservative symbols. But I'm somewhat iconoclastic by nature, so probably symbols of most stripes wouldn't fare well under my scrutiny.

Now, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION: None of those positions demonstrate any support for 'leftist' thought. What they do show is that I'm not rightist. That's one half of the picture.

[Michael Bluth]

Now, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION: None of those positions demonstrate any support for 'leftist' thought. What they do show is that I'm not rightist. That's one half of the picture.

At the core of your little game here you are attacking the character of the Conservatives for attacking Dion's character.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Figleaf]

At the core of your little game here you are attacking the character of the Conservatives for attacking Dion's character.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I would say I am critiquing the character of the Conservatives's conduct. We see a surprisingly quick, particularly personal, partially proven false, certainly expensive, and coordinated with the grass-roots campaign against a party's leader, not even in an election campaign. It's unprecedented, so it invites remark.

(P.S. and still, none of the above tells you shit about how little or much I agree or disagree with 'leftism'.)