Military Spending

[southerncomfort]

How was the speech on behalf of the CPC? He said the military was neglected, which it was, and isn't as much anymore. That's a factual statement, not political spin. He never endorsed the CPC.

zactly

Exactly !!!!! 10 years of darkness to undo

[weaponeer]

O'Connor should get credit, good on Rick. I think you just have a problem with a military man having an opinion, and a mind of his own. I am sure if he was saying great things about the libs we would not be hearing from you.

He is not saying what you WANT to hear, so he's bad. A real soldier leading the military, there's a first for recent history. we ahve not had a CDS this good since the last WW2 officer retired in the '70's. Libs bought lav3's because they were made in London On, not because they care about the military.....

Rick Hillier, most powerful Newfie on earth.....

[madmax]

He completely disregarded the cuts of Mulroney, prior to 1994, not only that, his aforementioned "decade of darkness" was shored up with him specifying a date of 1994, and focused it against the Liberals, and for the CPC.

1994 is when all government agencies, transfers, health care payments, military etc suffered large cutbacks that continued to present day.

[madmax]

Exactly !!!!! 10 years of darkness to undo

What are you suggesting. The Liberals where not supposed to get the books balanced? That was a higher priority then. It was the priority of the Reform Party. The Priority of the Progressive Conservatives were to continue to spend money like it grew on trees.

While the 10 years of darkness is colourfull, that accompanied 10 years of balanced budgets and many years of surplus that the Government returned to the corporations in terms of tax cuts or went to pay down the debt.

The military hasn't been the only neglected area, and alot of the pressure on the government of the day, came from the "right".

[madmax]

Rick Hillier, most powerful Newfie on earth.....

I am reporting you

[weaponeer]

Sorry, no name calling:)

Going to bed, kinda hurting from today, good night all......

[Catchme]

Exactly !!!!! 10 years of darkness to undo

What are you suggesting. The Liberals where not supposed to get the books balanced? That was a higher priority then. It was the priority of the Reform Party. The Priority of the Progressive Conservatives were to continue to spend money like it grew on trees.

While the 10 years of darkness is colourfull, that accompanied 10 years of balanced budgets and many years of surplus that the Government returned to the corporations in terms of tax cuts or went to pay down the debt.

The military hasn't been the only neglected area, and alot of the pressure on the government of the day, came from the "right".

Oh the hypocrisy of them, eh?!

Hillier broke military rules, was extremely partisian, so I guess we should just do away with ALL military rules as they mean so little.

If this was Hillier, or any other military leader in Canada speaking that way about a Liberal government, or a Liberal MP, the CPC/Reform crowd would have been calling for their heads. And we all know that for a certantity

[Argus]

As a centrist, I have no obligation to give credence to the Natural Law or Marxist Leninist parties, nor to the Conservative Party.

Do I have to give credence to you calling yourself a centrist when you have consistently written from the perspective of someone on the sharp Left?

[Army Guy]

While the 10 years of darkness is colourfull, that accompanied 10 years of balanced budgets and many years of surplus that the Government returned to the corporations in terms of tax cuts or went to pay down the debt.

The military hasn't been the only neglected area, and alot of the pressure on the government of the day, came from the "right".

I hope your not suggesting that is everything the liberals did with that SURPLUS, what of funding of some of crietien's legacy programs, etc etc. If paying down the debt was priority then that focus should have been maintained, and it was not. i'd be curious to find out what was each years surplus and how much of that was actually put on the debt.

Hillier broke military rules, was extremely partisian, so I guess we should just do away with ALL military rules as they mean so little.

What rules did he break poser, letting the nation know the state of it's military ? speaking out for his dept is now bad...In some circles it's called leadership.

[Remiel]

Well, Argus, if you were a genius, you would realize you can be both a genius and a hack at the same time. However, since you cannot, I can only infer that you are just a hack.

[Figleaf]

In my opinion Hillier has long been way too political for a serving general officer. He is a civil servant, not a spokesperson and has a responsibility to behave that way. If he can't do that part of the job, he's the wrong man for the job.

Chiefs of Staff are a lot more than "Civil Servants" ...there are also the chief lobbiest and supporters of the military.

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

[Wilber]

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place.

[Figleaf]

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place.

Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government?

[M.Dancer]

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place.

Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government?

What do you think? Should fire chiefs be allowed to publickly say they have a funding crisis? How about cops? Water supply technicians? Chief Medical Officers? Shouldn't they all be slient and let the politicians take care of us>?

[Wilber]

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place.

Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government?

A commander has a duty to the people he is responsible for, not a particular government. He is subject to the governments orders but his responsibility is to make sure his people are equipped to carry out those orders. If that means going public with its deficiencies then so be it. The people also have a right to be informed about the status of their military from those who really know, not just those who have to win the next election.

Are you saying that no one in government employ should ever be allowed to comment on deficiencies in their departments?

[madmax]

I hope your not suggesting that is everything the liberals did with that SURPLUS, what of funding of some of crietien's legacy programs, etc etc. If paying down the debt was priority then that focus should have been maintained, and it was not.

The Only Legacy of the Chretian era is Sponsorship. Deficit reduction, tax cuts were the main focus. Paying down the debt was also done.

i'd be curious to find out what was each years surplus and how much of that was actually put on the debt.

Years of huge deficits were replaced by budget surplus. Shouldn't be too hard to find how much was went to pay down the debt.

There is little reason to believe that the current government can put as much towards the debt, without risking going into deficit. Revenues could be down and expenditures could be increasing. Have to wait and see what this "Fiscal Imbalance" stuff costs.

[Catchme]

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place.

Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government?

What do you think? Should fire chiefs be allowed to publickly say they have a funding crisis? How about cops? Water supply technicians? Chief Medical Officers? Shouldn't they all be slient and let the politicians take care of us>?

Apparently they do not get it figleaf, nor do they get why there are rules against military partisanship commentary and actions.

There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better.

Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous.

Then his fullout Gord is wonderful took it well over the top.

One does not hear Chief Medical Officers, fire chiefs, or the RCMP saying such things. Yes, they say there are monies needed, and they say they got money they do not prostrate themselves to the government, or officials, who did so, nor do they berate those who didn't in a partisan way.

Again, those that think this is okay are extremely partisan.

[weaponeer]

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place.

Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government?

What do you think? Should fire chiefs be allowed to publickly say they have a funding crisis? How about cops? Water supply technicians? Chief Medical Officers? Shouldn't they all be slient and let the politicians take care of us>?

Apparently they do not get it figleaf, nor do they get why there are rules against military partisanship commentary and actions.

There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better.

Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous.

Then his fullout Gord is wonderful took it well over the top.

One does not hear Chief Medical Officers, fire chiefs, or the RCMP saying such things. Yes, they say there are monies needed, and they say they got money they do not prostrate themselves to the government, or officials, who did so, nor do they berate those who didn't in a partisan way.

Again, those that think this is okay are extremely partisan.

AGAIN, had he given the fiberals praise, we would not be hearing from you. If he said what you WANT to hear, you would not care......

[Catchme]

He should be the chief lobbyist, but not spokesperson. His political or policy views should never be heard, or even acknowledged or speculated on in the public sphere.

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place.

Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government?

What do you think? Should fire chiefs be allowed to publickly say they have a funding crisis? How about cops? Water supply technicians? Chief Medical Officers? Shouldn't they all be slient and let the politicians take care of us>?

Apparently they do not get it figleaf, nor do they get why there are rules against military partisanship commentary and actions.

There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better.

Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous.

Then his fullout Gord is wonderful took it well over the top.

One does not hear Chief Medical Officers, fire chiefs, or the RCMP saying such things. Yes, they say there are monies needed, and they say they got money they do not prostrate themselves to the government, or officials, who did so, nor do they berate those who didn't in a partisan way.

Again, those that think this is okay are extremely partisan.

AGAIN, had he given the fiberals praise, we would not be hearing from you. If he said what you WANT to hear, you would not care......

My your partisanship is showing, which is why I suppose you are ok with Hillier being a poor role model and breaking military rules.

But you are correct, you would not be hearing from me, had Hillier also praised the Liberals, as then he would NOT have being partisan, and he would've been giving credit where credit was due.

It is NOT about what I want to hear, it is about what is fact, and what is breaking military rules. Had Hillier come out and praised only the LIberals and trashed another party, I would have been saying the same thing.

[Wilber]

My your partisanship is showing, which is why I suppose you are ok with Hillier being a poor role model and breaking military rules.

Hillier is a great role model. If my kid was in the military I would be thanking my stars he had someone like that for a boss.

[Catchme]

My your partisanship is showing, which is why I suppose you are ok with Hillier being a poor role model and breaking military rules.

Hillier is a great role model. If my kid was in the military I would be thanking my stars he had someone like that for a boss.

Perhaps you wouldn't be, perhaps you may be criticizing him for wrongful war mongering policies and making the situation in the world worse and needlessly endangering canadian military lives. And perhaps endangering your kid's life needlessly. Good thing you'r just arm chairing your support though, and your "kid" is not actually in the military.

Because he was and is wrong. On all accounts. Please read:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....16entry188216

[Army Guy]

There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better.

Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous.

The "decade of darkness" Gen. Hillier spoke about was the 1990s. Starting with the 1991 federal budget, successive Conservative and Liberal governments reduced the funding and strength of the Canadian Forces in what some in the military then called the "death of a thousand cuts."

That message is not partisan. The words Liberal or Conservative never crossed Gen. Hillier's lips. I know him well, and he has always been, as generals in a democratic nation must be, scrupulously apolitical.

ottawa citizen.

Then there is a story with the herald...Explaining that there is some problems with the CPC as well, what i fail to see is how he can be called PRO CPC.

Calgary hearld

[White Doors]

My your partisanship is showing, which is why I suppose you are ok with Hillier being a poor role model and breaking military rules.

Hillier is a great role model. If my kid was in the military I would be thanking my stars he had someone like that for a boss.

Perhaps you wouldn't be, perhaps you may be criticizing him for wrongful war mongering policies and making the situation in the world worse and needlessly endangering canadian military lives. And perhaps endangering your kid's life needlessly. Good thing you'r just arm chairing your support though, and your "kid" is not actually in the military.

Because he was and is wrong. On all accounts. Please read:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....16entry188216

Poser, you LIED about being a veteran of the CF's. You are also probably lying about your grandfather's role in WW1. ie: you are a proven liar.

[Catchme]

There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better.

Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous.

The "decade of darkness" Gen. Hillier spoke about was the 1990s. Starting with the 1991 federal budget, successive Conservative and Liberal governments reduced the funding and strength of the Canadian Forces in what some in the military then called the "death of a thousand cuts."

That message is not partisan. The words Liberal or Conservative never crossed Gen. Hillier's lips. I know him well, and he has always been, as generals in a democratic nation must be, scrupulously apolitical.

Then there is a story with the herald...Explaining that there is some problems with the CPC as well, what i fail to see is how he can be called PRO CPC.

No, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, he pin pointed exact time frames, please do go back and look. He specifically stated 1994 forward.

He neglected to mention it was the Liberals who started restocking the military and that indeed the new equipment presently being used in Afghanistan was got by the Liberals.

They did NOT have to pass his lips. The implication and tacit support were evident in his rhetoric.

Apparently, your definition of partisan rhetoric has flaws. And he was definitely NOT apolitical.

[M.Dancer]

There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better.

Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous.

The "decade of darkness" Gen. Hillier spoke about was the 1990s. Starting with the 1991 federal budget, successive Conservative and Liberal governments reduced the funding and strength of the Canadian Forces in what some in the military then called the "death of a thousand cuts."

That message is not partisan. The words Liberal or Conservative never crossed Gen. Hillier's lips. I know him well, and he has always been, as generals in a democratic nation must be, scrupulously apolitical.

Then there is a story with the herald...Explaining that there is some problems with the CPC as well, what i fail to see is how he can be called PRO CPC.

No, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, he pin pointed exact time frames, please do go back and look. He specifically stated 1994 forward.

He neglected to mention it was the Liberals who started restocking the military and that indeed the new equipment presently being used in Afghanistan was got by the Liberals.

They did NOT have to pass his lips. The implication and tacit support were evident in his rhetoric.

Apparently, your definition of partisan rhetoric has flaws. And he was definitely NOT apolitical.

When I was in the reserves in the early 80's, our rifles were pushing 30 years old, our machine guns and SMGs nearing 50...artillery was vintage korea and our air defence weapons were new 1939.

It took the Mulroney (spit spit) years to set that right. The projects like the LLAD. aquiring the C-7, new helicopters (then canceled by the libs), a submarine programe, (then canceled by theLibs).......

The cretien gov't didn't see a need for equiping our military, who would only be used in time of peace, to plow snow or rescue manitobans and occasionally pose for photos in Cyprus....thankfully this dangerous path has been halted.