Iran, a Real Look at the Country's Peoples

[sharkman]

And I bet the rest of the world is preparing a strongly worded statement to Harper admonishing him for not declaring his support of Israel in better terms. They are no doubt afraid of what Harper hasn't said and how this will alter life as we know it.

Nobody cares what little old Canada's latest PM says or doesn't say. We are too small to matter much.

Just like nobody seems concerned with the dangerous threats Iran has leveled at Israel.

[Catchme]

Just like nobody seems concerned with the dangerous threats Iran has leveled at Israel.

Just like nobody seems concerned with the dangerous threats Israel has leveled at Iran and Israel actually has nukes to use, unlike Iran that is years away, if not a decade.

Moreover, if you had been reading the thread you would've seen there is serious contention on whether Iran did say that, or not.

Read the Putin thread and the link in it, is a telling story.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....wtopic=8050&hl=

[geoffrey]

Democracy prevents Israel from actually doing anything aggressive towards Iran.

There is alot of businesses and money in Israel. The party financeers don't want a war, it hurts their bottom line, you can't have investment and commerce with nukes a flyin'. It's for this reason that a democracy will be very unlikely to ever commit to a war that could even in the slightest result in damage at home.

[sharkman]

Just like nobody seems concerned with the dangerous threats Iran has leveled at Israel.

Just like nobody seems concerned with the dangerous threats Israel has leveled at Iran and Israel actually has nukes to use, unlike Iran that is years away, if not a decade.

Moreover, if you had been reading the thread you would've seen there is serious contention on whether Iran did say that, or not.

Read the Putin thread and the link in it, is a telling story.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....wtopic=8050&hl=

I am not interested in what Putin says. If you are trying to say the Iranian threats, which have been repeatedly made over the last year or so( and are all over the media), did not happen, then you are not dealing with reality. To accept what Israel says and not Iran would leave one with the opinion that Israel is a scare mongering bully, which is what you are doing, Catchme. Are you just trolling and trying to get a rise out of people? Quit wasting your and others time.

[scribblet]

I'm more concerned about the dangerous threats to Israel leveled by Iran, well its President, and he is starting to look bad to them.

It is interesting how some people are busy trying to twist and play down what Ahmadinejad said, ignoring his threats and how is mentions ethnic cleansing and wiping a nation off map when he clearly said it nationally?

"There is no doubt that the new wave [of attacks] in Palestine will wipe off this stigma [israel] from the face of the Islamic world." Hello out there - "Burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury"? The enemy is Radical Islam, and please note I did not say all Muslims.

These people are in good company though - http://www.davidduke.com/general/1746_1746.html

Fortunately Ahmadinejad is not the sole decision maker, even Israel says that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is more reasonable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/st...2001703,00.html

Even the Guardian thinks he is a problem.

Ali Ansari, the director of the Iranian Institute at the University of St. Andrews, notes that Ahmadinejad's popularity is in decline. And so is his support at the top. He has suffered "an unprecedented rebuke from the supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei -- reflecting growing concerns among the political elite, including many conservatives, who are increasingly anxious at Iran's worsening international situation." He has become "intoxicated with the prerogatives of his office, neglected his populist campaign platform, and "failed to consolidate and extend his political base". There's even been talk of impeachment!

http://english.aljazeera.net/News/archive/...ArchiveId=15816 can AJ be wrong about this?

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map. [...]

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, even though such slogans are still regularly used at government rallies.

[Canadian Blue]

Ah, but the rest of the world wouldn't be rolling their eyes. The rest of the world is in Munich discussing this, and Putin indeed spoke out strongly against this and drew the line.

And yes, Israel is talking about wiping Iran off the map, the quote is right in this thread. And Iran says they did not say that.

I thought it was going to target the sites creating nuclear technology.

Iran talked about wiping Israel off the map catchme, you just have to be blatently ignorant not to know that.

Read the Putin thread and the link in it, is a telling story.

Putin is a shining light of liberty and democracy in the world, that is unless you criticize him.

[scribblet]

Ramping up the rhetoric is right.

Aside from making anti Israel/U.S. hay and promoting the the idea that Israel would Nuke Iran's plants - is it correct that there are technical limitations Ito srael's bombers which would require refueling over hostile territory. ?

[Catchme]

Apparently people do not read links, or they would like to keep their personal biases intact to support their agenda of war, and perhaps bringing on what they think would be armageddon. And indeed possible nuking of a country would put the world in crisis.

People stating they are pro-life while advocating the mass destruction of people's, there is no better example of inconsistency in thought and action.

[scribblet]

Apparently people do not read links, or they would like to keep their personal biases intact to support their agenda of war, and perhaps bringing on what they think would be armageddon. And indeed possible nuking of a country would put the world in crisis.

People stating they are pro-life while advocating the mass destruction of people's, there is no better example of inconsistency in thought and action.

Hmmm, pot - black your personal biases are indeed intact.

Who has stated they are pro life while advocating a mass destriction of people?

The only people I know advocating mass destruction of people are the radical Islamists.

[newbie]

Catchme, the right don't handle facts well when they don't fit into their little biases. When they resort to belittling others you know they are running on empty.

[Catchme]

Well, even reading a full thread could help some as Israel quite clearly has made threats against Iran. While Irans thhrats, or lack thereof are still up for debate.

Again, Israel has said this against Iran, plus much more:

On May 8 2006, Israel's Second Vice Prime Minister Shimon Peres said in an interview with Reuters that "the president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map," Army Radio reported.

Gen. Oded Tira, chief artillery officer of the Israeli Defense Forces declaring last month that "an American strike on Iran is essential" for the very existence of the Jewish State

Discussion Israels words Irans words

In a mature and diplomatic world, all efforts would be made to tone down comments made by leaders from neutral countries. Those same leaders should/are actually acting in a sane, and unbiased manner, unlike the current leader of Canada. One need only go read the theo-con thread to see Harper's bad and actions and remarks.

Partisian remarks accusations, are spurious, as those who accuse others of doing so, are the ones being partisian by their doing so. Complaints and discussion about one's country's leader, is not partisian, it is legitimate action.

Funny though, they tried saying that type of thing with Bush, to try and avoid truthful criticism of the government by citizens within their own country, and where did it get Bush, or indeed the USA as a whole?

[BC_chick]

To shoot someone because you believe they MIGHT get a gun, and they MIGHT shoot you if they did - is the ultimate act of hypocrisy.

In a criminal court, it wouldn't be enough grounds for "self-defense" and the same should be applied to international law.

The fact that two people on this board agree with such a position is actually quite frightening.

[sharkman]

To shoot someone because you believe they MIGHT get a gun, and they MIGHT shoot you if they did - is the ultimate act of hypocrisy.

In a criminal court, it wouldn't be enough grounds for "self-defense" and the same should be applied to international law.

The fact that two people on this board agree with such a position is actually quite frightening.

Are you refering to Israel 'shooting' Iran?

Talk about over simplifying a very complex issue. How about if the neighbor has been making threats regularly to shoot you, and has been stabbing a neighbor next to him (Iraq war) in the past. The reason he wants a gun is his knife is too short to stab you.

Israel would not 'shoot' Iran or kill the nation, to try and follow your little story, they would take the gun away. Or maybe NATO will take the gun away, so said violent neighbor doesn't hurt anyone else.

[BC_chick]

Talk about over simplifying a very complex issue. How about if the neighbor has been making threats regularly to shoot you, and has been stabbing a neighbor next to him (Iraq war) in the past. The reason he wants a gun is his knife is too short to stab you.

These are not facts. These are allegations with which many people in the world disagree. Including the IAEA.

Pardon me for being sceptical of allegations against other countries after the WMD farce which has destroyed a country of millions for years to come.

[sharkman]

BC chick, don't tell me you have selective memory too? I've never seen such blatant avoidance of facts than from you and catchme.

[sharkman]

Just in case you are open to reason, here's proof from none other than Al jazeera, a news network very simpathetic to Arabs and Muslims( and some other quotes)

Al jazeera

BBC

World net daily

ynet news

Sydney Morning Herald

I hope you don't think all these ( I could have listed dozens) news organizations are involved in a grand conspiracy of some kind. These facts speak for themselves, and Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president is a dangerous fool.

[Catchme]

Talk about over simplifying a very complex issue. How about if the neighbor has been making threats regularly to shoot you, and has been stabbing a neighbor next to him (Iraq war) in the past. The reason he wants a gun is his knife is too short to stab you.

These are not facts. These are allegations with which many people in the world disagree. Including the IAEA.

Pardon me for being sceptical of allegations against other countries after the WMD farce which has destroyed a country of millions for years to come.

You are correct BC Chick, it is NOT facts, there is no proof that Iran is involved with Iraq in anyway shape or form. And it is true the US government is busily trying to manufacture evidence just as they did all the lies about Iraq and WMDs.

Moreover, if one really reads/listens what is being said by the USA, you will find nothing is really concrete is being said. They are actually Again typical to what they used before Iraq. Alluding, with the use of "may have", "could be", "hidden sources say" and not even making a concrete fact says it all. The propagandists know some naive people will run with the false uttterings, and their job is done.

BC Chick your right, they destroyed Iraq, and millions of lives for decades to come, over lies, and more lies. Only this time they want to use nukes, again for no reason. And again for NO reason, and your analogy was excellent.

You cannot shoot your neighbour because your neighbour may get a gun someday.

You cannot shoot your neighbour for uttering threats, particularily threats you were not sure you heard even. You cannot even shoot your neighbour if your neighbour is attacking someone else. You would be arrested charged and convicted. It is against the law here in Canada and it is against the law Internationally.

Hence why Bush and most, if not all of his admin have been charged with assorted crimes against humanity. The charges only await, his/their leaving office.** And yes, for those who want the evidence and are too lazy to google for it, using something like Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Kissenger crimes against humanity, I will provide it.

Now back to their using, or wanting to use nukes, and yes evidence has been provided by me, on the Putin thread, the other recent Iran thread. So I am not going to repost it here.

If they use nukes, it will not only be another peoples, and country, destroyed, but as considerable area in the ME as well. And it will affect the whole globe, and more than just environmentally.

People should look at the links in the first page to the pictures of the peoples and cities after the one and only prior atomic bomb drop on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and then go look at the pictures of Iranians.

Again the youth, who are a majority in Iran, are struggling for a democracy, they want the Mullahs and the President gone. We should be supporting them, NOT supporting those who want to nuke them.

[GostHacked]

Just want to point this out here, as it probably needs to be posted in a couple other Iraq/Iran threads.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7021100479.html

The officials said they would speak only on the condition of anonymity, so the explosives expert and the analyst, who would normally not speak to the news media, could provide information directly. The analyst's exact title and full name were not revealed to reporters. The officials released a PowerPoint presentation including photographs of the weaponry, but did not allow media representatives to record, photograph or videotape the briefing or the materials on display

Yeah such solid evidence that you cannot even proove the existence of the evidence.Also take a look at the picture that Washington Post has on the site. If the bombs were made in IRAN would they really say in plain every day english. "81mm MORTAR ROUND". If it was Iranian, it would have been written in Arabic or something else. Something just is not right here. This is the equivilant of 'Nigerian yellow cake'.

I can say that this is neither Iranian or Iraqi. I can say that these mortars pictured here are not made my any Arabic/muslim state that is being targeted by the United States.

[Canadian Blue]

Once I see them nuke Iran I'll believe it. As for the youth struggling for democracy, I support them fully.

[Catchme]

Just in case you are open to reason, here's proof from none other than Al jazeera, a news network very simpathetic to Arabs and Muslims( and some other quotes)

I hope you don't think all these ( I could have listed dozens) news organizations are involved in a grand conspiracy of some kind. These facts speak for themselves, and Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president is a dangerous fool.

One would hope that reason would indeed prevail here.

Let's look at the facts:

1. Ahmandinejad, could be a dangerous fool, I agree, you could be correct. Looking at it rationally from a Canadian perspective, I would even say I agree with you. It does seem that way to us way over here, hearing the hype and propaganda. So, one has to temper what they hear with facts, and rational thinking.

Thinking about such things as: there are lots of dangerous fools around the world and tehere are several prominent ones too boot. But that does not mean you go and and nuke innocent Iranians because the empty figure head is a fool.

If it was the case, that fool figure heads should have their peoples and country nuked, then half of the USA would be gone, just because George Bush is a proven dangerous fool. Unlike Ahmandinejad, who just apparently is a mouthy fool who has never engaged in an act of aggression against another nation.

2. Ahmandinejad, the President of Iran has NO offical powers, he is a mouth piece figure head and nothing more.

3. The Mullahs control Iran, and the Mullahs have never utter threats against another nation or peoples, in fact they are calling for diplomacy and have been for 2 years or more. I also linked to answers.com earlier, that has indepth analysis about all of this and what the Mullahs, Israel, and others are saying.

Here it is again below, for those who missed it. It has every Iran Israel event/word that has has happened, or been spoken for the last 2 years. And it is all discussed from an non-partisian position, with links to news sources and government documents around the world.

http://www.answers.com/topic/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-and-israel

4. The youth of Iran are struggling with the Mullahs for control of Iran, they want peace, and a democracy, and they are with in striking distance of getting it.

Iran's top dissident cleric Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri has urged Islamic republic officials to release political prisoners and open the political arena to opponents of the regime.

"Now that the country faces international pressure, is it not better to avoid extremism and open the political space?" Montazeri asked in a Friday meeting with members of an NGO to defend prisoners' rights.

"Unfortunately there are still academics, students, intellectuals and ordinary people jailed for false or political reasons. The wise thing to do is to release them in these sensitive times," he said according to a statement obtained by AFP.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070127/wl_mi...nt_070127165723

And they, the vast majority of Iranian citizens are moderates, are getting support from other interesting quarters;

Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel

About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots.

It is dawn in the Yusufabad synagogue in Tehran and Iranian Jews bring out the Torah and read the ancient text before making their way to work.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

And no, that should not mean going into rescue them and destroy their country while doing so, if diplomacy is worked hard at externally, and they work within their own country, Iran will become a democracy, and not in the to distant future.

5. Nuclear war is never the correct thing to do, some may think it is the "right" thing to do, but then that's George Bush et al for you.

Here is a link to pictures of what the cities and people looked like after the USA dropped the last, and only atomic bombs to be dropped, on peoples and countries, as yes some of the pictures are graphic. And Iran would look much the same if Israel/USA nuked them.

http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/02/hiro...want-us_05.html

[sharkman]

Okay catchme, now you are in full spin mode. Good for you. Like, nuclear war is never a good idea. No frickin kidding, Einstien. That's why people are so nervous about Iran's ambitions.

But keep on freaking out about Israel, your wild eyed posts say more about you than they do any point you are trying to foist on us. For the reasonable person reading this, funny eh how some people are shrieking that Iran's gonna get nuked!? Kids these days.

[Canadian Blue]

1. Ahmandinejad, could be a dangerous fool, I agree, you could be correct. Looking at it rationally from a Canadian perspective, I would even say I agree with you. It does seem that way to us way over here, hearing the hype and propaganda. So, one has to temper what they hear with facts, and rational thinking.

Propaganda, what is this the left wing version of Rush Limbaugh. The guy's a nut, what kind of head of state organizes a conference for holocaust deniers.

5. Nuclear war is never the correct thing to do, some may think it is the "right" thing to do, but then that's George Bush et al for you.

I don't support nuclear war, but then again the rational side of me says that nuclear war won't happen because of the massive uproar from the US and the entire world.

If it was the case, that fool figure heads should have their peoples and country nuked, then half of the USA would be gone, just because George Bush is a proven dangerous fool. Unlike Ahmandinejad, who just apparently is a mouthy fool who has never engaged in an act of aggression against another nation.

I never knew the President of the United States was just a figure head akin to the Queen of England. I learn something new everyday.

Here is a link to pictures of what the cities and people looked like after the USA dropped the last, and only atomic bombs to be dropped, on peoples and countries, as yes some of the pictures are graphic. And Iran would look much the same if Israel/USA nuked them.

Did you drink alittle bit too much coke and eat alot of candy today. To say that the US and Israel will nuke Iran off the face of the earth is irrational and innane, for a number of reason's. But it's much too late for that.

[sharkman]

Canadian, I think catchme's just trolling. It's just too far out there. Maybe this is catchme's entertainment for the evening.

[Catchme]

Just in case you are open to reason, here's proof from none other than Al jazeera, a news network very simpathetic to Arabs and Muslims( and some other quotes)

I hope you don't think all these ( I could have listed dozens) news organizations are involved in a grand conspiracy of some kind. These facts speak for themselves, and Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president is a dangerous fool.

One would hope that reason would indeed prevail here.

Let's look at the facts:

1. Ahmandinejad, could be a dangerous fool, I agree, you could be correct. Looking at it rationally from a Canadian perspective, I would even say I agree with you. It does seem that way to us way over here, hearing the hype and propaganda. So, one has to temper what they hear with facts, and rational thinking.

Thinking about such things as: there are lots of dangerous fools around the world and tehere are several prominent ones too boot. But that does not mean you go and and nuke innocent Iranians because the empty figure head is a fool.

If it was the case, that fool figure heads should have their peoples and country nuked, then half of the USA would be gone, just because George Bush is a proven dangerous fool. Unlike Ahmandinejad, who just apparently is a mouthy fool who has never engaged in an act of aggression against another nation.

2. Ahmandinejad, the President of Iran has NO offical powers, he is a mouth piece figure head and nothing more.

3. The Mullahs control Iran, and the Mullahs have never utter threats against another nation or peoples, in fact they are calling for diplomacy and have been for 2 years or more. I also linked to answers.com earlier, that has indepth analysis about all of this and what the Mullahs, Israel, and others are saying.

Here it is again below, for those who missed it. It has every Iran Israel event/word that has has happened, or been spoken for the last 2 years. And it is all discussed from an non-partisian position, with links to news sources and government documents around the world.

http://www.answers.com/topic/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-and-israel

4. The youth of Iran are struggling with the Mullahs for control of Iran, they want peace, and a democracy, and they are with in striking distance of getting it.

Iran's top dissident cleric Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri has urged Islamic republic officials to release political prisoners and open the political arena to opponents of the regime.

"Now that the country faces international pressure, is it not better to avoid extremism and open the political space?" Montazeri asked in a Friday meeting with members of an NGO to defend prisoners' rights.

"Unfortunately there are still academics, students, intellectuals and ordinary people jailed for false or political reasons. The wise thing to do is to release them in these sensitive times," he said according to a statement obtained by AFP.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070127/wl_mi...nt_070127165723

And they, the vast majority of Iranian citizens are moderates, are getting support from other interesting quarters;

Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel

About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots.

It is dawn in the Yusufabad synagogue in Tehran and Iranian Jews bring out the Torah and read the ancient text before making their way to work.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

And no, that should not mean going into rescue them and destroy their country while doing so, if diplomacy is worked hard at externally, and they work within their own country, Iran will become a democracy, and not in the to distant future.

5. Nuclear war is never the correct thing to do, some may think it is the "right" thing to do, but then that's George Bush et al for you.

Here is a link to pictures of what the cities and people looked like after the USA dropped the last, and only atomic bombs to be dropped, on peoples and countries, as yes some of the pictures are graphic. And Iran would look much the same if Israel/USA nuked them.

http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/02/hiro...want-us_05.html

Just reposting this again so you can rebutt it point by point instead of making false personal claims and drive by smears of the poster. That you did not may have been an oversight, as opposed to creating a diversion from the truth, so please do refute what I have posted.

Also, I have put additional facts on the Iraq Cake walk thread that also support, what proof/facts I have presented here. It is not my personal opinion I am preesenting but actual facts, and links to prove the facts.

Facts that support again the imminent attack on Iran planned by the USA/ISRAEL, also there is more evidence on the Putin thread. Please feel free to read it as well.

I look forward to any proof/facts that you would could apply to the contrary that is based upon real facts and NOT personal opinion, or spurious rhetoric regarding Iraq. As I have yet to see any.

[southerncomfort]

Maybe the best thing to do is ignore her, (catchme) a lot of the babble seem to be a bit on the unbalanced side.

There's no doubt about what Amajahdeen (sp) said, or his intent, only people who agree with him would downplay his meaning or spin it as something else.