Pope Frantic

[jbg]

Not so. Moral reletavism merely acknowledges that the standards and values which allow citizens to live in peace, safety and security are not universal. Whether those other value systems are desirable or not is in the eye of the beholder.

Some values are, or should be, universal. Great societies such as the US and Canada should think long an dhard before ditching standards that have made our greatness possible.

[blueblood]

I was saying that it was the pope who helped destroy communism in eastern europe. He is a guy who has a lot of influence and respect. I'd even go to say if there was a terror attack on the vatican you can kiss Islam goodbye.

[ft.niagara]

I'd even go to say if there was a terror attack on the vatican you can kiss Islam goodbye.

Most likely there would then be a terror attack on Mecca. The Irish would be in charge of it.

[ft.niagara]

Blaming moral relativism for exclusiveness indicates frantically trying to find to cause and effect for the rejection of his doctrine.

Huh??? Either you are talking above me, or you are talking silly.

I vote for the former.

I vote the later. Efforts to sound overly intillectual usually result in incoherent silliness. Sometimes people get away with it, but anyone calling herself a CHICK is definately not an Einstein. Further, equating Roman Catholicism to Castro's Cuba is more junk. Why not relate Islam to Castro's Cuba while you are at it?

[BC_chick]

anyone calling herself a CHICK is definately not an Einstein.

[ft.niagara]

anyone calling herself a CHICK is definately not an Einstein.

She is not an Einstein, but she sure is a happy bimbo. Any bets on hair color?

[ft.niagara]

Why not relate Islam to Castro's Cuba while you are at it?

What? Not going there?? Blast the Pope, but Islam off limits? Is not Bin Laden just looking for Islamic relevance in a Western dominated secular world.

[dances with fishes]

As I sit here and ponder why, the whole world has gone awry.

Did you know,that in day's gone by,people did ask,

that same question,"WHY" just before the whole world dies.

It is because we all believe the same stupid lies.

Fed to us by the Lord of the Flies.

Our politicians, are all very good magicians,

along with.bankers, lawyers, judges, and physicians.

Promised riches and power beyond their scope.

but in them.there is no hope.

Extravagance surrounds them all,even the Pope.

In God is where you should put your hope,

not in the false father the pope.

Jesus warns us of that sin,

do not call anyone on earth "father" but Him.

Everyday we take his name in vain,

yet he endures the shame.

Seeing his children doing evil for personal gain,

then we blame him, for our pain.

There is a whole book about this very same game,

if people would just read it,

they would see, we are all to blame.

For not following Gods ways, and love one another,

He will pit us, brother against brother.

Where not Juda and Israel of the same blood?

Should God destroy the world agian with a flood?

Their must be more evil in the world now,

than there was back then,

When God looked in on the children of men.

All this and more, it's right before your eyes,

So "why" does everyone still believe the "lies"?

and allow governments to take innocent lives.

Under the desguise of peace,

He shall destroy many, are the words of Daniel.

For what is written who can deny,

Only those who follow, the "Lord of the Flies".

[jbg]

Great poem or song lyrics. Source?

[dances with fishes]

Thanks.

It is the first poem that I have ever written,I do not play any instruments, or write music

The only difference between poems and songs is music,it comes from the spirit within.

That is why Hitler tried to kill the artists poets and all FREE thinkers,and they are still trying!

[Slavik44]

So fishes can you justify your interest in having the government force people to follow the wishes of some invisible guy in the sky who has no evidence backing his existance? Is this invisible guy really that happy when people are forced to follow him?

[jbg]

So fishes can you justify your interest in having the government force people to follow the wishes of some invisible guy in the sky who has no evidence backing his existance? Is this invisible guy really that happy when people are forced to follow him?

Which government do you have in mind that's "forcing" people to believe in G-d?

[Slavik44]

So fishes can you justify your interest in having the government force people to follow the wishes of some invisible guy in the sky who has no evidence backing his existance? Is this invisible guy really that happy when people are forced to follow him?

Which government do you have in mind that's "forcing" people to believe in G-d?

Well technically you are slightly mis-interpretign my statement, I was questioning the individuals interest in doing so.

But I will answer your question anyways....

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

How about just the rule of law, why should Canada be founded on the principles of an invisible diety who may or may not even exist, and which invisible dude or dudes or dudettes am I supposed to recognize....there is after all over 4,200 different religions out there.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God...

hmm...yeah, who declared it one nation under god? Oh yeah thats right, in the damn 1950's it was decided that America was a nation under god. Not even worthy of preservation for historical reasons.

In God we trust

1956 made the official motto of the united States of America (replacing E pluribus unum[out of many, one]

1960's added to the paper currencey of America

Motto of the state of florida

Appears on the flag of Georgia as of 2003

So does everyone in America trust in God, hell I wouldn't leave my kids alone with God, probabley wouldn't leave alone with todays class of priests either. So are people not having their faith, the beliefs, and who they trust declared for them?

What I am asking is how far does the particular poster want to push this, and is this desire truly justifiable, does god really smile down on forced faith? On Forced Conversion?

I don't recognize the supremacy of God, I am more than happy to recognize you right to recognize his supremacy, as an individual. However, I do not believe you have the right to declare my recognition of the supremacy of god. Or to declare I trust in God, or to declare myself as being under God. You can most certainly do that for yourself, but don't do it for me. I don't appreciate it, and I wonder what kind of screwed up God you believe in, if he appreciates it.

[jbg]

So does everyone in America trust in God, hell I wouldn't leave my kids alone with God, probabley wouldn't leave alone with todays class of priests either. So are people not having their faith, the beliefs, and who they trust declared for them?

While we have an almost total separation of Church and State (far greater than Canada has) we, in the US, believe in certain values that trace to Judeo-Christian ethics and morality. Being probably the most successful society ever in the earth's history, I wouldn't fix what ain't broke.

By the way, I personally am not Christian.

[Slavik44]

So does everyone in America trust in God, hell I wouldn't leave my kids alone with God, probabley wouldn't leave alone with todays class of priests either. So are people not having their faith, the beliefs, and who they trust declared for them?

While we have an almost total separation of Church and State (far greater than Canada has) we, in the US, believe in certain values that trace to Judeo-Christian ethics and morality. Being probably the most successful society ever in the earth's history, I wouldn't fix what ain't broke.

By the way, I personally am not Christian.

Well here you are again ever so slightly adding a new element to disqualify what I have previously said. Does it have no end?

First I question the value behind a percieved desire of forced belief.

And then you ask me to provide you with evidence of countries doing so.

I oblige and offer this to you anyways

Now you are telling me that the value is established or that it is acceptable.

I have done my part and answered your questions, people are having faith declared on their behalf and I find it to be highly immoral, I do not find that to be acceptable. I do not feel that you can truthfully answer that everyone in America fits into the Judeo Christian mold of beliefs. I do not believe you can neccessarily pin point the success of America to christianity, no more than I can claim the success of the greeks was due to Zeus...highly absurd. Maybe your god is better than the Zeus. I'll give you that, its not really like he can be worse...I wouldn't go around giving yourself a high five or anything over that one. I beat Zeus in an arm wrestle just the other day, he was so weak it was almost like no one was there.

[ft.niagara]

certain values that trace to Judeo-Christian ethics and morality... I wouldn't fix what ain't broke.

By the way, I personally am not Christian.

Why not just say you are Jewish? Why was it important to you to say that you were NOT Christian while defending common based eithics and morality? Why is it important that you want people to know your religion? Because you are on a mission to defend it and Israel from attack, even from an atheist.

[ft.niagara]

So fishes can you justify your interest in having the government force people to follow the wishes of some invisible guy in the sky who has no evidence backing his existance? Is this invisible guy really that happy when people are forced to follow him?

Yes, the invisible guy is very happy when people follow him and give him respect. Since you did not create yourself, and can not reproduce yourself without magic called DNA, many people are willing to hold credible that there is a guy in the sky. Beyond the magic of conception, what happens upon death? For Slavik44 the answer is nothing. Thats all there is folks. That is not a very powerful message Slav. And finally, no government is forcing religion on anyone.

Who knows maybe someday you can show us the magic of life and death and uncontrolable/unexplainable events, and we can worship Slavik44.

[Slavik44]

Yes, the invisible guy is very happy when people follow him and give him respect.

That doesn't Answer the Question.....

"Is this invisible guy really that happy when people are FORCED to follow him?"

Since you did not create yourself, and can not reproduce yourself without magic called DNA, many people are willing to hold credible that there is a guy in the sky.

And I have never said that individuals should not be allowed to believe such things, only that they don't have the right to declare that on my behalf.

Beyond the magic of conception, what happens upon death? For Slavik44 the answer is nothing. Thats all there is folks.

And that also has nothing to do with Gay Marriage, or claiming belief on behalf of others

That is not a very powerful message Slav.

Would you prefer I tell people they have a big diamond burried in their backyard and go around putting signs infront of people's houses. "This house was constructed on the principle that there is a big diamond burried in its backyard"

As far as this thread is concerned, I am offering a message of protecting and extending individual freedoms....powerfull enough for me.

And finally, no government is forcing religion on anyone.

Not a claim I have made.

I have made the claim that people are trying to force others to follow the tenets of a particular religion.

I.E that Gay Marriage is bad, and that the state shouldn't recognize it. (However I have acknowledged the right of churches to choose wether or not they acknowledge it)

I also made the claim that faith in god is being acknowledged on behalf of other individuals with out their consent.

Who knows maybe someday you can show us the magic of life and death and uncontrolable/unexplainable events, and we can worship Slavik44.

Also not relavent to this thread, but might I add that it is pure intellectual lazyness to write it all off as God did it.

[jbg]

Why not just say you are Jewish? Why was it important to you to say that you were NOT Christian while defending common based eithics ethics and morality? Why is it important that you want people to know your religion? Because you are on a mission to defend it and Israel from attack, even from an atheist.

Why not just say you are anti-Jewish?

As for your second question, what is your system of morality? I question it.

[ft.niagara]

Who knows maybe someday you can show us the magic of life and death and uncontrolable/unexplainable events, and we can worship Slavik44.

Also not relavent to this thread, but might I add that it is pure intellectual lazyness to write it all off as God did it.

Of course it is irrelevant to this thread, since I am only trying to be sarcastic. The belief in a supreme being might be intellectually lazy, but it is a lazyness shared by some of the greatest minds in history, including the founding fathers of the US. With regard to your other banterings about forcing belief, or God happy when people forced to..., just so much hot air, or in this case drive space.

[ft.niagara]

Why not just say you are Jewish? Why was it important to you to say that you were NOT Christian while defending common based eithics ethics and morality? Why is it important that you want people to know your religion? Because you are on a mission to defend it and Israel from attack, even from an atheist.

Why not just say you are anti-Jewish?

As for your second question, what is your system of morality? I question it.

No, what I contend is you are antiChristian. Just like many Jews you want the protection of the Christians for Israel, but inherently distrust and hate them. You enjoy that Christianity is a stepchild of Jewish thought, as in "JudeoChristian" tradition in the founding of a nation, but quick to distance from it also. "I am not Christian."

Listen to the following long enough and I think many would come to a similar conclusion.

http://www.toviasingershow.com/ToviaHome.aspx

Oh, and btw, your interest in spelling is interesting. Perhaps it indicates an anal retentive nature.

[jbg]

No, what I contend is you are antiChristian. Just like many Jews you want the protection of the Christians for Israel, but inherently distrust and hate them. You enjoy that Christianity is a stepchild of Jewish thought, as in "JudeoChristian" tradition in the founding of a nation, but quick to distance from it also. "I am not Christian."

I am not in the least anti-Christian. OK, Chris-Judean Ethics?

Listen to the following long enough and I think many would come to a similar conclusion.

http://www.toviasingershow.com/ToviaHome.aspx

Giving it a listen. (edited to say, thanks for link, quite stirring).

Oh, and btw, your interest in spelling is interesting. Perhaps it indicates an anal retentive nature.

I think people who are somewhat intelligent would have pride in their grammar and spelling.

[Remiel]

I confess that, at times, I think JBG may discriminate against Muslims far more than can be justified, but anti-Christian? That is just unfounded. Of course, I wouldn't expect any better from you.

[jbg]

I confess that, at times, I think JBG may discriminate against Muslims far more than can be justified, but anti-Christian? That is just unfounded. Of course, I wouldn't expect any better from you.

Anti-Muslim? Hardly. Go here and see if this changes your mind. I want the Muslims to work with the West, not kill us. Hardly an unreasonable request.

[BC_chick]

I confess that, at times, I think JBG may discriminate against Muslims far more than can be justified, but anti-Christian? That is just unfounded. Of course, I wouldn't expect any better from you.

I'm with jbg on this too. When the time comes that you and I are defending jbg, I think we need to consider the possibility that Ft. Niagara may be the problematic character.