National Sporting Teams

[geoffrey]

Watching the World Juniors play at lunch yesterday was fantastic. Such a great amount of skill. But are we getting bang from our buck in funding our national sports teams?

The olympics have long been criticised as a nationalist big waste of moola. I can definitely see the truth in their argument... it costs billions to put on, and doesn't really better lives, at least not immediately.

I'd like to forward the argument though, that these sporting events have more of an impact today than they did in the past. Kids are overweight and inactive today, this is going to cause some major stress, both in capacity and financially, on our health care system.

The Salt Lake City olympics of 2002 is the last winter games I can find taxpayer cost for. $1.3 billion. Lots of cash. Now, do understand that this is the norm, but it's not always that way. Calgary was one of the only olympics that actually turned a profit, the money of which is still used to support our programs. I insist it was the Jamacian bobsleigh team selling tickets, but whatever.

Is Vancouver a big waste of cash? Let's say it ends up, when all is said and done, costing $1.3 billion to Canadian taxpayers. Would we get a better impact on health of Canadians spending that elsewhere?

How about when we look at the olympics as a whole, and not just individual years? This is where I see the biggest chance the olympics has to justify itself. Yearly, nations don't spend that much on sport. Yet how many kids or even adults do you think pick up a new sport, even just recreationally because they see something on TV and say, "hey! that looks cool."

We need a study that shows the difference in cost between someone that lives an atheletic life and someone that sits on the couch, watches TV and eats potato chips.

The nationalism aspect is something else worth exploring, but as a not-so-patriotic Canadian, it doesn't really interest me in that regard.

[gc1765]

But are we getting bang from our buck in funding our national sports teams?

No.

Is Vancouver a big waste of cash? Let's say it ends up, when all is said and done, costing $1.3 billion to Canadian taxpayers.

If it's costing us 1.3 billion (actually I think the number might be less), then yes.

Would we get a better impact on health of Canadians spending that elsewhere?

Yes.

[August1991]

The olympics have long been criticised as a nationalist big waste of moola. I can definitely see the truth in their argument... it costs billions to put on, and doesn't really better lives, at least not immediately.

I'd like to forward the argument though, that these sporting events have more of an impact today than they did in the past. Kids are overweight and inactive today, this is going to cause some major stress, both in capacity and financially, on our health care system.

Spending money on elite Olympics sports athletes as a way to induce healthy citizens is like spending money on advanced fusion research as a way to reduce adult illiteracy.

I have absolutely no patience for any government funding of Olympics athletes or any professional sports stadiums. If Myriam Bedard wants to fulfil her dreams to win a Gold medal, let her do it on her own dime.

When it comes to having access to other people's money, every possible crazy argument is used. Sports fanatics use some of the craziest.

[geoffrey]

When it comes to having access to other people's money, every possible crazy argument is used. Sports fanatics use some of the craziest.

I tend to agree. I've seen the success of atheletics first hand, I know a couple of olympians. But I really struggle with the dollars spent here... it doesn't really coincide with the rest of my political views. So I'm a little conflicted on the issue.

One other side to this is that the venues wouldn't be built otherwise. There is truth in this. These venues do provide an expansion of recreational facilities, and I don't think many would protest that too much?

[jdobbin]

One other side to this is that the venues wouldn't be built otherwise. There is truth in this. These venues do provide an expansion of recreational facilities, and I don't think many would protest that too much?

Isn't recreation something by its very nature that is private?

[geoffrey]

Isn't recreation something by its very nature that is private?

I'll throw another idea out there. Hockey teams are big business, lots of money. That sport, in particular, should be funding junior national teams as it contributes to the training of their future players.

[jdobbin]

I'll throw another idea out there. Hockey teams are big business, lots of money. That sport, in particular, should be funding junior national teams as it contributes to the training of their future players.

Pro hockey is also about other people paying for their facilities. When was the last private arena built in Canada for the any pro team?

[Ricki Bobbi]

Spending money on elite Olympics sports athletes as a way to induce healthy citizens is like spending money on advanced fusion research as a way to reduce adult illiteracy.

I have absolutely no patience for any government funding of Olympics athletes or any professional sports stadiums.

That is such a completely ridiculous analogy.

People watch the Olympics when they are on. (Thankfully not on a government-subsidized netork in the near future.)

Kids watch and want to emulate those athletes. They take part in sports more often as a result.

Who watches a fusion researach scientist and decides to learn how to read?

Funding of Olympic athletes is a good step in the direction of encouraging kids to lose weight.

[geoffrey]

I'll throw another idea out there. Hockey teams are big business, lots of money. That sport, in particular, should be funding junior national teams as it contributes to the training of their future players.

Pro hockey is also about other people paying for their facilities. When was the last private arena built in Canada for the any pro team?

The arenas aren't built for the teams. They are built for the community and the teams rent ice team. When was the last private arena built for large concerts? Silly question. Much more than hockey makes use of the facilities.

Kids watch and want to emulate those athletes. They take part in sports more often as a result.

Agreed. It's what started me into cross-country and alpine skiing. Watching the Salt Lake City olympics, I was so impressed I started into the sport. I was fairly athletic at that point anyways though... would an otherwise sedentary person leap off their couch and hit the ski hill the next day?

Funding of Olympic athletes is a good step in the direction of encouraging kids to lose weight.

I don't disagree that olympic athletes provide positive role models to youth. But are there better ways to spend that much money. There is a limited amount available, are we making the best use of it.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I don't disagree that olympic athletes provide positive role models to youth. But are there better ways to spend that much money. There is a limited amount available, are we making the best use of it.

Do state specific amounts and how they would be better spent.

[jdobbin]

The arenas aren't built for the teams. They are built for the community and the teams rent ice team. When was the last private arena built for large concerts? Silly question. Much more than hockey makes use of the facilities.

Not a silly question because the hockey teams get to benefit from publicly built arenas by operating them. They make the money from having concerts and conventions in them. They control all the revenues.

[geoffrey]

The arenas aren't built for the teams. They are built for the community and the teams rent ice team. When was the last private arena built for large concerts? Silly question. Much more than hockey makes use of the facilities.

Not a silly question because the hockey teams get to benefit from publicly built arenas by operating them. They make the money from having concerts and conventions in them. They control all the revenues.

I actually didn't know that. I assumed the arena owners were independant of the teams. So someone builds the arena, the hockey team then gets all profit from it?

[Ricki Bobbi]

Not a silly question because the hockey teams get to benefit from publicly built arenas by operating them. They make the money from having concerts and conventions in them. They control all the revenues.

That's far from the standard deal on stadiums and arenas...

[jdobbin]

I actually didn't know that. I assumed the arena owners were independant of the teams. So someone builds the arena, the hockey team then gets all profit from it?

That is the standard deal made on sporting facilities in Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Vancouver and elsewhere.

[Catchme]

No public funds to NHL teams, CFL teams.

[Ricki Bobbi]

No public funds to NHL teams, CFL teams.

NHL teams without a doubt.

CFL is very different.

No multi-million dollar player contracts. No huge television contracts.

The tiny funding they get from Heritage Canada, in exchange for the Canadian flag stickers on the helmets is a reasonable use of sponsorship funding.

[Highlander]

The Olympics should receive no public funding at all, considering private corporations pay millions to the IOC in broadcasting and sponsorship fees.

[geoffrey]

The Olympics should receive no public funding at all, considering private corporations pay millions to the IOC in broadcasting and sponsorship fees.

So other nations should build our infrastructure for us? We get to keep those buildings by the way, they don't move elsewhere after.

Without the Olympics, Calgary would have even worse infrastructure than we do now. The amount we initially invested in the Olympics has obviously paid major dividends since in numerous ways. Again, we can't say the same for Montreal who I think will still be paying for theirs many years from now.

I figure Vancouver will fit somewhere in between.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Without the Olympics, Calgary would have even worse infrastructure than we do now. The amount we initially invested in the Olympics has obviously paid major dividends since in numerous ways. Again, we can't say the same for Montreal who I think will still be paying for theirs many years from now.

I figure Vancouver will fit somewhere in between.

You missed it. Montreal just finished paying off Olympic Stadium. It's a disgrace it took them 30 years to do it, but they are finally done...

Here is the link.

I love this quote from the story.

The final bill for the stadium built for the 1976 Summer Olympics was $1.5 billion. The amount included cost overruns, the Olympic village, a sports recreation facility and several other facilities for the event.

The original forecast was for $120 Million. Cost overrun? It was $1.38 Billion or about 1200% worth of cost overrun.

[jacobhelliwell]

I think national sports teams are an excellent thing. Nothing brings friends and family (at least in my case) together better than cheering on team Canada in an international competition. And I particularly love watching the Canadian flag being raised with the states in either second or third and hearing the Canadian anthem being played while our atheletes stand on the podium.

[geoffrey]

The original forecast was for $120 Million. Cost overrun? It was $1.38 Billion or about 1200% worth of cost overrun.

1200%

1200%

Hmmm...

Can anyone tell me how that could even be possible?

[Ricki Bobbi]

1200%

1200%

Hmmm...

Can anyone tell me how that could even be possible?

Corruption. Mismanagment. Overly strong unions.

[Catchme]

No public funds to NHL teams, CFL teams.

NHL teams without a doubt.

CFL is very different.

No multi-million dollar player contracts. No huge television contracts.

The tiny funding they get from Heritage Canada, in exchange for the Canadian flag stickers on the helmets is a reasonable use of sponsorship funding.

Good point about the stickers and I agree with you for sure about them, I was thinking along the lines of building stadiums.

As for the Olympics pffft!

[August1991]

1200%

1200%

Hmmm...

Can anyone tell me how that could even be possible?

Well, the original $120 million was very, very low ball.

Incidentally, here's the schedule of events at Montreal's Olympic Stadium for the next six months:

Nouvel An Lunaire

On February 4 2007

Salon de l'Amour et de la Séduction

From February 9 to February 11 2007

Cottage and Country Homes Show

From February 15 to February 18 2007

Monster Spectacular

On April 14 2007

FIFA U-20 World Cup Canada 2007

From June 30 to July 15 2007

RIO

You'll be happy to know that all the money Albertans have sent to the Quebec government because of Quebec's inability to tax its own citizens and offer them similar services as other provinial governments has been put to good use.

BTW, the stadium is an impressive whack of concrete. In 5000 years, I'm sure tourists will come to marvel and have there picture taken in front of its remnants, maybe riding a camel.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

BTW, the stadium is an impressive whack of concrete. In 5000 years, I'm sure tourists will come to marvel and have there picture taken in front of its remnants, maybe riding a camel.

Interesting. Albert Speer was an architect for the Nazis and Hitler pre(and into)-WWII, and was asked to build a huge stadium. He did some sketches (after some trips to occupied territories like Greece) with the notion of 'What will this look like centuries from now?' and called it 'the theory of ruin value'. A lot of the Nazi party members were appalled, as it suggested that the Reich may not last 1000 years, as they wished to believe. However, Hitler, who fancied himself and architect also, gave his blessing to the 'radical idea'. It was not to be, though, for the war interupted the project, and only the sketches and one test section were ever completed.

The 'National socialists' thought that some projects like this were a showcase of it's nation's spirit, and expected the world to be envious of their fine stadium (they also expected to host Olympics, etc. probably exclusively in the future). So, the question is, what is expected of the stadium (or any other gov't project) that they (the gov't) should fund it?