Canadian Blue Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'd say the biggest problem today when were addressing racism is that it is seen as a problem which is only perpetrated by whites and no one else. When dealing with racism we should condemn all bigotry, whether it be stereotypes about rural white Canadian's, or urban muslims, etc. So true. But as a Muslim you must partake in Madessa which ensures brainwashing from the beginning of childhood so I doubt a 1 hr. show will change that. Ever watch Jesus Camp. My parents were evangelical christian's, and I went to church every sunday and attended sunday school. However I wasn't brainwashed, and I question the churches opinion's towards gays, creationism, and taking the bible too literally as many do. I agree. Islam and bombs on planes are not a laughing matter. Same way people don't make fun of war vet's or Hitler. Some things aren't laughing matters. I think you should change your view's on islam. Personally I haven't seen anything in the actual muslim religion which is of great concern. The biggest problem is people taking lines out of context, and perverting religion for violent reason's. This has been a problem with regards to most religion's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'd say the biggest problem today when were addressing racism is that it is seen as a problem which is only perpetrated by whites and no one else. I agree. I've encountered reverse racism on numerous occasions. Of course, giving people special privleges due to their skin color only encourages racsism. When dealing with racism we should condemn all bigotry, whether it be stereotypes about rural white Canadian's, or urban muslims, etc. I agree. It's equality - something which Canada does not support. I think you should change your view's on islam. I don't have a problem with Islam. I have a problem with peoples interpertation with Islam. In Islam, it is permissible and encouraged to beat your wife if she missbehaves. It also states that Islamic land may not be occupied. The Quaran tells you directly how to live life. It's not a very grey, philisophical book as other religions may be. It's pretty black and white in its teachings. Personally I haven't seen anything in the actual muslim religion which is of great concern. I've seen plenty. It's whether it actually gets followed or not. In the Bible an 'eye for an eye' is an example. It's a story that you learn a lesson from. The Quaran is not writen this way. It litteraly gives you step by step direction. The biggest problem is people taking lines out of context, and perverting religion for violent reason's. This has been a problem with regards to most religion's. And Islam has not moved past this. I don't think that it has been a serious problem in other religions. We arrested 18 terrorists trying to purchase meterials to make a bomb in order to carry out Islamic Jihad in Canada. I would consider this concerning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Lionel Jefferson was one of the best supporting roles I have ever seen. Really? He might get a little extra applause at the died-this-year segment of the Emmys, but the writing and acting of the character seemed a little two-dimensional if you ask me. Actually, I don't think the show holds up so well. The whole thing seems like it's written at a junior high school level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who's Doing What? Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Lionel Jefferson was one of the best supporting roles I have ever seen. Really? He might get a little extra applause at the died-this-year segment of the Emmys, but the writing and acting of the character seemed a little two-dimensional if you ask me. Actually, I don't think the show holds up so well. The whole thing seems like it's written at a junior high school level. Think what you want, I liked him and his character. I don't know about a junior highschool level though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I do agree, however, that the humour in that RickiBobbi/BlackDog exchange will still be funny years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I will quote BD out of sequence, for the sake of a more organized response... Or is it just matter of some stereotypes being "ok" and others being verbotten? You can still make fun of blondes, yokels, and white males in general, but ethnic and religious minorities aren't allowed right now. This show would seem to prove you wrong. I'm not sure I agree with you. While some of the gags and plot elements you've mentioned will apparently poke fun at elements of Islamic culture, I haven't yet seen anything to suggest that the characters themselves will be made fun of. You could poke fun at urban hipsters' willingness to pay $5 for a fancy coffee without demeaning the intelligence of urban hipsters, or their value as human beings. You could make fun of Muslim practices without demeaning the people that follow them. But I don't think you could portray people as ignorant or stupid without being demeaning to them. That's the line that I don't want to see crossed here. And since Corner Gas keeps being mentioned here, I'll point out that Corner Gas makes fun of small town life without being demeaning to small town people. As for moving the goal posts...where, in my "unpacking" (as the kids say) of the use of stereotypes in pop culture, did I do that? Early in the thread your argument seemed to be that it wasn't offensive, or wasn't really a stereotype, unless every single westerner on the show was portrayed as a stupid bumpkin. Now your argument seems to be more along the lines that it's a relatively harmless stereotype used for comic purposes, and stereotypes of white Christians don't carry the sort of historical baggage that stereotypes of minorities do. So, are stereotypes only stereotypes if it's applied to every single member of the show?(did having a token Arab good-guy in "True Lies" invalidate criticism of the dozens of fanatical Arab terrorists in the film, for instance?) The question isn't "does the dumb redneck stereotype exist?" It is "does the depiction of a dumb redneck stereotype on 'Little Mosque...' constitute a 'disgusting' attack on all western Christians? Or is it simply recycling a (relatively harmless) cliche for comic purposes?" Something I feel is that to some people the prairie bumpkins they see on Little Mosque (or Corner Gas, for that matter) *do* represent western Canadians as a whole. (... much in the same way that to some people in this thread, the stereotypical effete latte-sucking snob in a turtleneck represents all Torontonians.) -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'm not sure I agree with you. While some of the gags and plot elements you've mentioned will apparently poke fun at elements of Islamic culture, I haven't yet seen anything to suggest that the characters themselves will be made fun of. A distinction without a difference (or is it the other way 'round?). isn't the redneck sterotype a mockery of redneck "culture"? You could poke fun at urban hipsters' willingness to pay $5 for a fancy coffee without demeaning the intelligence of urban hipsters, or their value as human beings. You could make fun of Muslim practices without demeaning the people that follow them. But I don't think you could portray people as ignorant or stupid without being demeaning to them. That's the line that I don't want to see crossed here. I don't have a problem with mocking stupid cultures or stupid people. And since Corner Gas keeps being mentioned here, I'll point out that Corner Gas makes fun of small town life without being demeaning to small town people. Except in that it portrays them as stupid. Early in the thread your argument seemed to be that it wasn't offensive, or wasn't really a stereotype, unless every single westerner on the show was portrayed as a stupid bumpkin. Nope. All I said was saying was the character was a steroptype, but not a sterotype of all westerners. Now your argument seems to be more along the lines that it's a relatively harmless stereotype used for comic purposes, and stereotypes of white Christians don't carry the sort of historical baggage that stereotypes of minorities do. Yes. That was my argument all along. How can you make a show, the entire premise of which is to present a humorous look at the clash of cultures, without resorting to sterotypes or stock characters? Something I feel is that to some people the prairie bumpkins they see on Little Mosque (or Corner Gas, for that matter) *do* represent western Canadians as a whole. (... much in the same way that to some people in this thread, the stereotypical effete latte-sucking snob in a turtleneck represents all Torontonians.) So? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchme Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Saw a really funny new clip, where Muslims and people from the prairies are mocking those from Tarana, (Toronto) while the women Muslims were mocking the male Muslims and taking a stab at the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricki Bobbi Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Saw a really funny new clip, where Muslims and people from the prairies are mocking those from Tarana, (Toronto) while the women Muslims were mocking the male Muslims and taking a stab at the NHL. Sounds halalarious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 I'm not sure I agree with you. While some of the gags and plot elements you've mentioned will apparently poke fun at elements of Islamic culture, I haven't yet seen anything to suggest that the characters themselves will be made fun of.A distinction without a difference (or is it the other way 'round?). isn't the redneck sterotype a mockery of redneck "culture"? I don't recall ever seeing a comic representation of "redneck culture" that didn't play on the idea that rednecks are stupid. You can certainly make fun of a culture or a sub-culture or an activity or an occupation or so-on without being demeaning to everybody who belongs to that group. Or, you can go the other way. To me, that's the distinction I'll be looking for. You could poke fun at urban hipsters' willingness to pay $5 for a fancy coffee without demeaning the intelligence of urban hipsters, or their value as human beings. You could make fun of Muslim practices without demeaning the people that follow them. But I don't think you could portray people as ignorant or stupid without being demeaning to them. That's the line that I don't want to see crossed here.I don't have a problem with mocking stupid cultures or stupid people. What about a blanket depiction of people of a certain culture as stupid or ignorant? And since Corner Gas keeps being mentioned here, I'll point out that Corner Gas makes fun of small town life without being demeaning to small town people.Except in that it portrays them as stupid.I don't agree at all. Of all the characters on the show, only Hank could really be considered stupid. Arguably Oscar, I suppose, although he's not so much stupid as just old. As I said before, the show makes fun of small-town life, not small-town people. Early in the thread your argument seemed to be that it wasn't offensive, or wasn't really a stereotype, unless every single westerner on the show was portrayed as a stupid bumpkin.Nope. All I said was saying was the character was a steroptype, but not a sterotype of all westerners.Something I feel is that to some people the prairie bumpkins they see on Little Mosque (or Corner Gas, for that matter) *do* represent western Canadians as a whole. (... much in the same way that to some people in this thread, the stereotypical effete latte-sucking snob in a turtleneck represents all Torontonians.)So? So this is where the argument that it's not a stereotype of all westerners starts to become blurry. Now your argument seems to be more along the lines that it's a relatively harmless stereotype used for comic purposes, and stereotypes of white Christians don't carry the sort of historical baggage that stereotypes of minorities do.Yes. That was my argument all along. How can you make a show, the entire premise of which is to present a humorous look at the clash of cultures, without resorting to sterotypes or stock characters? Does writing comedy depend on stereotypes and stock characters? Perhaps the sit-com genre does, I don't know. I'm sure, though, that most Muslims could relate some amusing stories (or incidents that could be turned into amusing stories, at least) that don't involve prairie bumpkins at all, so I don't believe that stock characters and easy stereotypes are central to the premise. You could do a fish-out-of-water culture-clash comedy set in an upscale neighborhood in Toronto if you were so inclined. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 I don't recall ever seeing a comic representation of "redneck culture" that didn't play on the idea that rednecks are stupid. I don't think Jeff Foxworthy's schtick plays on the idea that rednecks are particularly stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Early in the thread your argument seemed to be that it wasn't offensive, or wasn't really a stereotype, unless every single westerner on the show was portrayed as a stupid bumpkin.Nope. All I said was saying was the character was a steroptype, but not a sterotype of all westerners.Something I feel is that to some people the prairie bumpkins they see on Little Mosque (or Corner Gas, for that matter) *do* represent western Canadians as a whole. (... much in the same way that to some people in this thread, the stereotypical effete latte-sucking snob in a turtleneck represents all Torontonians.)So? So this is where the argument that it's not a stereotype of all westerners starts to become blurry. It's blurry because you feel that some people see this sort of stereotype as representative of all westerners?. If people are really stupid enough to think that all people in a region must be the same, then I say let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Just three more days to go and we can all see the show... Thank God. Of course, then this thread might *really* heat up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck E Stan Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Just three more days to go and we can all see the show... Thank God. No, more like.... Thanks Allah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Blue Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/03/t...reut/index.html The show has even gotten US media attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Now that would be funny. If this show actually made money, hehehe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricki Bobbi Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Now that would be funny. If this show actually made money, hehehe... Not funny, a miracle! Do they have miracles in Islam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/03/t...reut/index.htmlThe show has even gotten US media attention. Yes it's made news in the UK, it's been in the NYtimes, and many other sources. Does this potray Canada in a positive light? Canadian tax payers are funding this program. I don't feel this show represents the social climate in our country. I think Canada finds Islam a very serious matter within Canada. I should actually put out a www.LittleMosqueStatement.ca "This is to inform the world that Canadians consider Islam in Canada a serious issue and our social climate in Canada does not reflect that of the publically funded TV program 'Little Mosque on the Prarie". This show has been promoted by and for special interest groups and are not in the interest of the citizens of Canada". Or soemting along those lines. Maybe I should actually do it.. because seriously.. Canada is not a hippy paradise where Christians, Sikh's, and Muslims all live together with no issues and sing koom-bi-ya by the fire. Canada is filled with ethnic, racial tensions between all parties involved and soon a breaking point will reach. All it will take is an incident to happen. Who knows, the show might cuase this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Do they have miracles in Islam? Yeah. A wife that shaves under her arms. Hehe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stignasty Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Just three more days to go and we can all see the show... Thank God. Do you think anyone here will actually change their opinion because the show has aired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Just three more days to go and we can all see the show... Thank God. Do you think anyone here will actually change their opinion because the show has aired? Opinions will get worse. People will be very touchy on the jokes. Canadians died in 9-11 and we recently had terrorists caught in a plot to carry out attacks. These are not laughing matters firstly, second I don't like how Canadians are protrayed as dumb hicks. Yes controversy is good and I'm sure it's possible that the ratings will be the highest of the year for any CBC half hour show, but this is only becuase of controversy. The social climate in Canada does not reflect the light harted nature of Islam and making fun of each other the way this show is doing. We are currently experiencing a lot of problems that are very real to Canada and this show isn't funny, nor is it helping the situation. It just 'feels' wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 MORE ON THIS TOPIC: "To ensure it doesn't cause unforeseen offense with "Little Mosque on the Prairie," the government-owned Canadian Broadcasting Corp. (CBC) has hired an independent Muslim-Canadian consultant to comb through the sitcom's creative elements and suggest possible alterations." So basically our Tax Dollars are going to 'Muslim Consultants'??? F'CK THAT! GOD HARPER DO SOMETHING FOR GOD'S SAKE! FIX THE COUNTRY!! PLEASE!! http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/03/t...tion=cnn_latest CLICK HERE TO SEE LONDON, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricki Bobbi Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Do you think anyone here will actually change their opinion because the show has aired? If it is truly funny I will say so. Doubt that it will be though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 If it is truly funny I will say so. Doubt that it will be though...My prediction: it will a fairly lame show marred by bad acting and not so funny jokes. Nobody will find anything that offensive in it but it will attract a small but loyal audience of people who find the concept interesting enough to overlook the acting/material problems. IOW: typical CBC fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 If it is truly funny I will say so. Doubt that it will be though...My prediction: it will a fairly lame show marred by bad acting and not so funny jokes. Nobody will find anything that offensive in it but it will attract a small but loyal audience of people who find the concept interesting enough to overlook the acting/material problems. IOW: typical CBC fair. I think it's getting a lot more world publicity than you realize. There are people all over the world that will be watching via youtube and such. Look at the cartoon that was published and the response in the UK. Of course, the difference is, the son in the airport is a *lawyer* trying to potray the fact that muslims are high ranking people in our society. What do they potray about Canadians? That we're dumb, ignorant, and stupid racists that don't understand anything. On the whole they are not, and statistics pove that in Canada and Europe, they use more welfare and services than natives (fact). As a white minority, I feel that I should speak out against this because this show stereotypes me in a negative light which I feel is racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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