Maple Leaf Patches/Pins

[margrace]

I might behove some of us to look back at where we came from. Large families left Ireland and some went to Canada, some went to the US and others went to South Africa, New Zealand or Australia. In one family I am researching these were brothers and sisters, so they have cousins in all these countries.

It reminds me of the stories of the American Civil War where brother fought brother.

[ft.niagara]

Are you really saying there were Mexican thieves who would turn up their nose at stealing from Canadians because the Canadian dollar was worth a lot less than the US dollar? Sounds like a very odd mindset indeed. Who was making this *recommendation*?

Yes. When the American dollar was worth almost 50% more than the Canadian dollar, it is not odd but smart business. Although, that could explain why you can't grasp it.

Isn't it appropriate that "Who's Doing What?" is making comment on the strategy of criminal activity in Mexico. After all, who better qualified to comment than Mr. "Who's Doing What?"?

What the hell are you talking about?

Crack kills man, take it easy.

Ok, then I will rephrase. On who (Mexican criminals) is doing what (criminal activity, especially who the MC want to steal from), who would be better qualified to comment than someone who is so confident on the subject (what people are doing) that he would name himself Mr. "Who's Doing What?".

[Wilber]

1. You are American so how would you know? The Americans didn't jopin until after Pearl Harbour. The Canadians fought right from the beginning. Go and read some Canadian war time history and you might begin to understand. The reputation the Canadians had in Europe was top notch bar none.

Europe was invaded in the spring of 1944 over two years after the Americans entered the war. I don't know the breakdown between European and Pacific theaters but the US lost just over 400,000 killed and Canada 45,000. As a percentage of population, the number of Canadian military personel killed was not much higher than the US.

[margrace]

But aren't you forgetting the men Canada lost at Dunkirk before the US was in the war"

[Wilber]

But aren't you forgetting the men Canada lost at Dunkirk before the US was in the war"

There were no Canadian troops at Dunkirk. The evacuation was carried out by the British and all those evacuated were either British or French forces.

[jester]

Well I live in Brighton in the UK and mostly it is Canadians who wear flag pins. Very few Americans wear pins with any flag but if they are you will usually find they are with an organised tour not on their own. And the reason Canadians are liked in Holland is because it was the Canadian army that had the left flank during the war and so advanced along the coast. This meant that when the Allies got to Holland it came under the Canadian army sphere of control.

[Guest American Woman]

Well I live in Brighton in the UK and mostly it is Canadians who wear flag pins. Very few Americans wear pins with any flag but if they are you will usually find they are with an organised tour not on their own. And the reason Canadians are liked in Holland is because it was the Canadian army that had the left flank during the war and so advanced along the coast. This meant that when the Allies got to Holland it came under the Canadian army sphere of control.

And of course Canada gave a wing of the hospital to the Netherlands so the queen's baby could be born on Netherland's turf, therefore allowing her to be a royal. That was very much appreciated. I know because I've been to the Tulip Festival in Ottawa.

[Ricki Bobbi]

The tour guide would have made me cry at how Canadian's *pride* while travelling has made us the butt of jokes.

Sorry. I love Canada, but that comment did make us all laugh.

No need to be sorry.

I really think that Canadians who display the flag with such *pride* when they travel are far, far more likely to be rabid America-bashers.

This behaviour is infantile and comes from a sense of deep self-loathing.

The US is the world power right now, although watch out for China.

Our clothes come from the US, our TV, music and movies.

The US is our most important poltical and economic ally bar none.

As Canadians we should embrace the US. It offers many good things. I tend to get along quite well with Americans when I travel. I think it's because I'm not the typical wannabe Canadian with the flag plastered everywhere.

I also think it is a matter of respect. I have witnessed far too many Canadians, Brits, Aussies and Kiwis who start attacking Americans about whatever as soon as they meet them.

Maybe it's just me but when if I meet a guy hanging out at a tourist bar in Bangkok I'm guessing that he probably isn't a member of senior staff at the State Department or the White House.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I realize this comment wasn't directed at me, but I find it hard to believe that Canada had a better reputation in Europe after WWII than the U.S. did. The U.S. may have entered the war late, but we entered full force, and we played a huge part in rebuilding Europe after, too, all of which was very much appreciated. In fact, I think it was WWII that really gave the U.S. it's reputation as a Super Power. America was very much respected and admired at the time you are referring to.

I totally respect the fact that Canada fought right from the beginning, while we didn't, but I think the U.S. was every bit as respected for the role we played, too.

Hey, I've been pretty fair to the US throughout this thread but your last statement goes a little too far.

The US dithered and debated for over two years while Canada was there from the get go. There are legitimate questions about when the US would have become involved if their hand wasn't forced by the Japanese. Eventually the US would have had to be involved on the Allied side. A defeat of the Allies would have meant the Axis occupying Canada ... which couldn't be justified.

In a six year war the US sat on the sidelines for two of them.

Doesn't it seem odd that somebody would respect a four-year effort as much as a six-year effort? Especially when the six-year effort was clearly a matter of choice and the four-year effort was a response to an attack?

[Who's Doing What?]

Are you really saying there were Mexican thieves who would turn up their nose at stealing from Canadians because the Canadian dollar was worth a lot less than the US dollar? Sounds like a very odd mindset indeed. Who was making this *recommendation*?

Yes. When the American dollar was worth almost 50% more than the Canadian dollar, it is not odd but smart business. Although, that could explain why you can't grasp it.

Isn't it appropriate that "Who's Doing What?" is making comment on the strategy of criminal activity in Mexico. After all, who better qualified to comment than Mr. "Who's Doing What?"?

What the hell are you talking about?

Crack kills man, take it easy.

Ok, then I will rephrase. On who (Mexican criminals) is doing what (criminal activity, especially who the MC want to steal from), who would be better qualified to comment than someone who is so confident on the subject (what people are doing) that he would name himself Mr. "Who's Doing What?".

What the hell are you talking about?

Crack kills man, take it easy.

[Liam]

1. You are American so how would you know? The Americans didn't jopin until after Pearl Harbour. The Canadians fought right from the beginning. Go and read some Canadian war time history and you might begin to understand. The reputation the Canadians had in Europe was top notch bar none.

2. I didn't say overseas.

1. Thanks for the condescension. But I suppose being Canadian, only you have access to unbiased history books. I didn't realize that being American automatically made me less educated or knowlegable than you, but I'll try to keep that in mind. If I forget, just remind me I am dumber because of where I was born. Thanks.

2. So if Mexican thieves are not robbing US or Canadian tourists overseas... they are robbing them on Yonge Street? Maybe on Michigan Ave, then?

[Wilber]

Doesn't it seem odd that somebody would respect a four-year effort as much as a six-year effort? Especially when the six-year effort was clearly a matter of choice and the four-year effort was a response to an attack?

It might be more appropriate to give credit for what was done not when. Russia also entered the war because it was attacked, only six months before Pear Harbour. They lost 20 million people and were responsible for defeating the bulk of the German army in the field. Do they get less credit because they only came in the end of June 1941? Without their victories in the East an invasion of western Europe would have been impossible and the Germans would still be there.

With the exception of Southeast Asia, almost the entire war against Japan was fought by the US.

Take credit when it is due but also give it.

[ft.niagara]

The US dithered and debated for over two years while Canada was there from the get go. There are legitimate questions about when the US would have become involved if their hand wasn't forced by the Japanese. Eventually the US would have had to be involved on the Allied side. A defeat of the Allies would have meant the Axis occupying Canada ... which couldn't be justified.

I think there is an interesting question here, why do you go to war? Why DID Canada enter the war two years earlier? I know, because of ties to Britain. But Canada did not have to send its army to support Britain. Canadians could have joined the British Army. Americans supported the Chinese with the Flying Tigers. America supported Britain with the liberty ships which were sunk enroute. It was a European war, not a North American War. Further, if Germany had won, it would not have been able to occupy all the land of its enemies. It could not have occupied Russia and Canada. It would have been a joke. Won the War, but lost the Peace.

I think that if the US had stayed out of the war, sixty years after the war would not have been all that much different than today. Hitler would have died, and more moderate governments would have followed. Swings back to the center are inevitable.

And when you think about it, Germany's alliance with Japan was a mistake. All that alliance got them was war with the US, because after Pearl Harbour, the US went after Germany first, not Japan. I am sure that Germany was not consulted before Japan launched the Pearl Harbour attack.

Furthermore, even though the war was six years long, the majority of the ground fighting took place toward the end. Before then, much of the war was in the air, fought by the Americans, DURING the DAY, while the British attacked During the Night.

Basicly, instead of the Americans getting in too late, the Canadians got in too EARLY.

[Ricki Bobbi]

It was a European war, not a North American War.

And when you think about it, Germany's alliance with Japan was a mistake.

Basicly, instead of the Americans getting in too late, the Canadians got in too EARLY.

The European war argument was the one used be isolationists right up to Pearl Harbor.

In hindisght it is pretty damned easy to say that the German alliance with Japan was a mistake. They lost.

Of course Canada go into the war too early.

That's an easy way for the Americans to feel that justified about their two years of dithering.

[Wilber]

Since WW2 the Americans have been pro active but for many they can't get that right either so why should they care what anyone thinks.

[Who's Doing What?]

1. Thanks for the condescension. But I suppose being Canadian, only you have access to unbiased history books. I didn't realize that being American automatically made me less educated or knowlegable than you, but I'll try to keep that in mind. If I forget, just remind me I am dumber because of where I was born. Thanks.

Are you saying you are well versed in Canadian war time history?

I'm not saying you are "dumber" just uninformed.

2. So if Mexican thieves are not robbing US or Canadian tourists overseas... they are robbing them on Yonge Street? Maybe on Michigan Ave, then?

Maybe geography is taught differently in the US, but please explain how Mexico is considered "overseas"?

[Liam]

Are you saying you are well versed in Canadian war time history?

I'm not saying you are "dumber" just uninformed.

Maybe geography is taught differently in the US, but please explain how Mexico is considered "overseas"?

Never claimed greater knowledge of Canadian war time history, but the points you raised (about Canada's earlier entry to the war [compared the the US's] and Canada's contributions in the Euro theatre) do not require an understanding of Canadian war time history. All they take is knowledge of WW2. Of course Canada was in earlier. As part of the British Empire, they joined the war in 1939. Of course Canadians fought and died on the continent, but they only did so in significant numbers alongside their British, American and French allies after June, 1944. (Battles in North Africa and Asia are different stories; you specifically limited the praise heaped on Canadians to their contributions in Europe.)

"Overseas". Cripes, pick nits much? I may have casually misspoken, but you still haven't addressed my questioning of your initial claim: that a Candian could wear a pin as a talisman against thieving Mexicans. My point was that Americans and Canadians in Mexico would be carrying upon them the same currency, the Mexican peso, making the exchange rate between Canada/Mexico and US/Mexico is irrelevant. Perhaps Canadians just don't want to be seen as yanquis while in Mexico?

[JerrySeinfeld]

I was chatting with someone about a trip to Europe when the issue of wearing a maple leaf pin came up. It is somewhat true (but also largely urban legend) that lots of Americans will put a Canadian flag on their backpack while traveling in Europe. Some do it, I admit, but I think the practice is not as prevalent as you'd believe. I know a few Canadians who would never fly the maple leaf at home who have made a point of wearing their Canadian-ness while overseas.

As an American, I find few things more offensive whether done by an American trying to hide his nationality, or by a Canadian who does it solely to show the world she doesn't have the communicable Yanks Disease. :angry:

I'd like to get the opinions of Canadians about this. Do you wear a Canadian flag pin when traveling? If so, why?

You make a good point. You know what? I hadn't thought about it until now, but that whole flag thing isn't really about Canadians or Americans. It's about Europeans and their incessant bullshit hatred and penile envy of the United States.

Anybody who's travelled alot knows that almost anyone can be annoying - Americans yes. But Europeans can be as much or more annoying and arrogant than any American I've ever encountered.

Think about the "flag" standard. So what is basically going on is this: You have to put on a Canadian flag so you don't get confused for an American? If we all behave so similarly that they snotty euros need a flag to decide whether they'll "accept" us or not, then perhaps it's preconceived bullshit in the first place.

Fricking eurotrash. Brutal.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Think about the "flag" standard. So what is basically going on is this: You have to put on a Canadian flag so you don't get confused for an American? If we all behave so similarly that they snotty euros need a flag to decide whether they'll "accept" us or not, then perhaps it's preconceived bullshit in the first place.

Fricking eurotrash. Brutal.

Great post.

Yet another reason not to where a Canadian flag while I travel....

[ft.niagara]

Of course Canada go into the war too early.

That's an easy way for the Americans to feel that justified about their two years of dithering.

Dithering? Who wan doing lend lease? Who was sending merchant ships to their graves? One of the most dangerous jobs back then was merchant seaman. This when the US had not yet been attacked.

Besides, Canada is a very different country today than then. I bet that no longer would Canada be involved two years before the US, if ever. The one question comes to mind is WHY. Why has Canada changed from yesterday's firm support of the Commonwealth, to today's dithering and self justification.

[Black Dog]

I'd like to get the opinions of Canadians about this. Do you wear a Canadian flag pin when traveling? If so, why?

I have a patch on my backpack. It was there when I bought it. I don't think it makes much of a difference in people's treatment of me. A few friendly phrases in the local tounge will get one better treatment than any old patch or pin. That said, the biggest douchebags I've met when travelling have been either Yanks or Aussies.

[Riverwind]

I have a patch on my backpack. It was there when I bought it. I don't think it makes much of a difference in people's treatment of me. A few friendly phrases in the local tounge will get one better treatment than any old patch or pin. That said, the biggest douchebags I've met when travelling have been either Yanks or Aussies.

The patch is a conversation starter: things like "oh, your from Canda you must know an old friend of mine living in Toronto...."

[JerrySeinfeld]

I have a patch on my backpack. It was there when I bought it. I don't think it makes much of a difference in people's treatment of me. A few friendly phrases in the local tounge will get one better treatment than any old patch or pin. That said, the biggest douchebags I've met when travelling have been either Yanks or Aussies.

The patch is a conversation starter: things like "oh, your from Canda you must know an old friend of mine living in Toronto...."

I agree - curiosity, inquisitiveness and conversation go a lot farther than a patch. And actually - if you need a patch to get by in a foreign land, you probably shouldn't be travelling.

For me it's the Italians. It's worse than american arrogance - it's sheer social retardation. A running joke across the rest of Europe and seriously annoying on the beaches of the caribbean.

I have always found americans to be somewhat uninformed about other lands, but genuinely curious and friendly. I'd rather sit next to a curious hokey yank on a long flight than a self-important euro any day of the week.

[Guest American Woman]

Doesn't it seem odd that somebody would respect a four-year effort as much as a six-year effort? Especially when the six-year effort was clearly a matter of choice and the four-year effort was a response to an attack?

It might be more appropriate to give credit for what was done not when. Russia also entered the war because it was attacked, only six months before Pear Harbour. They lost 20 million people and were responsible for defeating the bulk of the German army in the field. Do they get less credit because they only came in the end of June 1941? Without their victories in the East an invasion of western Europe would have been impossible and the Germans would still be there.

With the exception of Southeast Asia, almost the entire war against Japan was fought by the US.

Take credit when it is due but also give it.

Well said. And speaking of Japan, Canada didn't even enter the war in the Pacific until December of '41; or am I wrong about that?

[jester]

Doesn't it seem odd that somebody would respect a four-year effort as much as a six-year effort? Especially when the six-year effort was clearly a matter of choice and the four-year effort was a response to an attack?

It might be more appropriate to give credit for what was done not when. Russia also entered the war because it was attacked, only six months before Pear Harbour. They lost 20 million people and were responsible for defeating the bulk of the German army in the field. Do they get less credit because they only came in the end of June 1941? Without their victories in the East an invasion of western Europe would have been impossible and the Germans would still be there.

With the exception of Southeast Asia, almost the entire war against Japan was fought by the US.

Take credit when it is due but also give it.

Well said. And speaking of Japan, Canada didn't even enter the war in the Pacific until December of '41; or am I wrong about that?

Here you go........

http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/html/default-en.asp

Canadian Military History Gateway - Home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_hist...econd_World_War

Military history of Canada during the Second World War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Knock yourselves out.........