Arar BANNED from US - David Wilkins

[mikedavid00]

I thought that my sarcasm would be most transparent, madmax, but perhaps I was mistaken.

Hehehe...

WEll anyhow, that argument and the real issue at hand is not similar.

Also, MOST countries in the world only do allow born children to become members of their country.

Again, most EVERY country in the world. Go to Japan and try to get a citizenship without marriage or your parents being a citizen. Try that in India, Pakistan, Dubai or anywhere else in the world and see how far you get.. hell, even in France.

[Remiel]

Since you seem to have a fairly low opinion of the people that come from those countries, why would we be concerned about taking advice from them on how to go about being a country?

[mikedavid00]

Since you seem to have a fairly low opinion of the people that come from those countries, why would we be concerned about taking advice from them on how to go about being a country?

I don't have a low opinion of France, UK, Germany, Italy, Japan, etc.

Realize that only Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and USA are really the only people that allow you to become a citizen withouth a parent being born there. This is to protect the economy of the people and it's worked very well for them.

Don't get me wrong, you can get a permit to work there (very rare), but as soon as it's expired, your expelled from the country.

A friend of mine got his Italian citizenship, he had to go through years of red tape. DNA samples, lawyers, urine samples, proof of documentations, lawyer fees. It was supposedly a nightmare. He almost gave up on it a third way through. This went on for 2 years.

Europe is extremely protective of it's immigration policy. And the rest of the world? ha.. good luck even getting a work permit. They simply don't let people in.

[Argus]

If Canada had any brains it would learn from these costly mistakes pertaining to dual citizenship and quickly put to an end dual citizenship with only a single identity for Canadian citizens.

Simply remember if Arar only had a SINGLE Canadian citizenship, none of this wouldn't have happened and if he would have been sent back to his country, it could be no other country than Canada.

Single citizenship is unenforceable and this explains why the US no longer forces people to give up other citizenship.

Certainly it's enforceable. All you have to do is stop bringing in a quarter million foreigners every year. And when you do bring someone in they'll be forced to sign a declaration which voids their previous citizenship. If they ever travel anywhere on any passport but ours, vote in a foreign election, or go to fight on behalf of their "old" homeland, we revoke their citizenship.

Underneath it all, we have someone who is deemed to be a security threat. Their citizenship is not the issue.

I don't think a Canadian, ie, a REAL Canadian, would have been shipped to Syria. I don't think the Canadian or American govenrments considered him a real Canadian. They considered him a Syrian.

[Argus]

Walking a thin line there, aren't you, Argus? Do you really need to swear to be sufficiently hateful?

Reported to moderator.

[Argus]

Since you seem to have a fairly low opinion of the people that come from those countries, why would we be concerned about taking advice from them on how to go about being a country?

I rather like the Japanese; very civilized people. The Swiss too.

We need very few immigrants. If we took very few immigrants we wouldn't have these problems.

[jbg]

You know what, Arar's 15 minutes of fame were up last year. I'm sick of hearing from him, and sick of seeing him on my TV. STFU already and go away.

To repeat my POV, an "immigrant" should become an involved citizen of their adopted country. Particularly when they come from dangerous lands and continue to canoodle with senseless people, especially in the immediate wake of September 11, what did he expect was going to happen? The US and Canada are not the authors of their death warrants.

[mcqueen625]

Still though, Mike David has made the point of all points. David Wilkins did say that the U.S. deported Arar on their own assessment. He says they had other sources. Some of you think he is making this up. So what? He acknowledges full responsibility for it. Lets say the other sources are a lie, just for the sake of argument. How does that change the fact that Wilkins says it was "our own assessment". I suppose this is another lie, conveniently. Jack Layton thinks Canada should tell the US who to allow across the border and who not. What a nut job. The great thing about guys like Layton is they can complain about everything that is happening and promise how much better things would be if they were in power, and never ever have to back up a single word of it. The NDP could promise World Peace if they wanted.

Right On! You have hit the nail on the head becasue nut-jobs like Layton will never be PM so he can make all the promises in the world, and not ever have to make good on any of them. Even better we will never have our country completely destroyed by having an NDP government in power. Just look what Rae did to Ontation and that should be reason enough not to vote either NDP or Liberal, considering the fact that Rae, after he almost bankrupt Ontarion decided that he now wants to be a Liberal and destroy the whole country instead of just one province. The person that beat him, Dion is certainly no better since he was on the team with the Cretin, Martin and many others still at helm of the Liberal Party, and they were responsible for such things as the corruption whci stemmed from teh sponsorship program and let's not forget about the massive cost overruns for an inefficient, ineffective gun registry, that never accomplished what it was stated to do which was to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

[Remiel]

Why don't you guys try thinking of possible reasons one might not want to be part of the Syrian military, instead?

[Topaz]

There's one thing everyone is not saying, Arar, should have been sent back to Canada instead of being sent to Syria as he did ask for BUT the USA decided they wanted him tortured! Now, did the Canadian govt help Arar come back to this country or did they say "too bad"!!! Arar does have a mult-million lawsuit on the US and of course if they admitted they were wrong it doing to cost them plenty!

[Black Dog]

Certainly it's enforceable. All you have to do is stop bringing in a quarter million foreigners every year. And when you do bring someone in they'll be forced to sign a declaration which voids their previous citizenship. If they ever travel anywhere on any passport but ours, vote in a foreign election, or go to fight on behalf of their "old" homeland, we revoke their citizenship.

So Arar, who never travelled to Syria since coming here, who likely would have renounced his Syrian citizenship if Syria allowed such a thing (they don't), who was travelling on his Canadian passport and has been cleared of any connections with terrorism should be okay in your books. Super!

It's like I said...

'sfunny: here we have what appears to be a perfect example of an immigrant success story: guy comes to Canada to escape an authoritarian regime, and makes something of himself. Gets an education, gets a job, marries (his wife...has a PhD), has kids, pays taxes. But then his own government sells him down the river by virtue of some very dodgy evidence and the same people who holler that we should only be allowing people just like Maher Arar into the country are very quick to find him guilty in the court of public opinion for quite literally nothing more than his being born in the wrong country. Sad. Worse: stupid.

I don't think a Canadian, ie, a REAL Canadian, would have been shipped to Syria. I don't think the Canadian or American govenrments considered him a real Canadian. They considered him a Syrian.

And now they are getting sued for it. Rightly so.

To repeat my POV, an "immigrant" should become an involved citizen of their adopted country.

What does that entail? Getting an education? A job? Putting down roots? Co9ntributing through their work and taxes? That would be Arar.

Particularly when they come from dangerous lands and continue to canoodle with senseless people, especially in the immediate wake of September 11, what did he expect was going to happen? The US and Canada are not the authors of their death warrants.

Silly Arar. He should have known better to fly while being Arab.

[mikedavid00]

Why don't you guys try thinking of possible reasons one might not want to be part of the Syrian military, instead?

More Idealism.

I dont care the reason why. Arar's hardships and duties in his born country is not our concern here in Canada. Yet, we've allowed him to exploit our system and become our problem.

Life is tough, I have start trimming my quotes even more although I do not feel it's problematic, but life is tought and I have to accept the cards that I am given and just live with it.

Arar doesn't like to be in the army in his own country - tought. Billions have to do it in many, many countries and maybe in his next life he'll be born in the US or UK where he won't have to do this.

I was born in Canada and would love to have been born in the US and enjoy a better life for myself.. Guess what, I'm stuck here. I learn to live with it.

I feel Arar should be expelled from Canada and he should go home. When he cries and whines, TOUGH.

[Black Dog]

I was born in Canada and would love to have been born in the US and enjoy a better life for myself.. Guess what, I'm stuck here. I learn to live with it.

You're seriously trying to compare the hardships of living in Canada with those of living in Syria? WTF?

BTW, you claimed to know a few Syrians: have you asked what they are doing here and told them that they should go back to their own country?

[mikedavid00]

You're seriously trying to compare the hardships of living in Canada with those of living in Syria? WTF?

BUT DUDE, THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM!! I DON"T CARE ABOUT ARAR'S HARDSHIPS!!! I'M A CANADIAN, I CARE ABOUT OUR LIVES, NOT THEIR HARDSHIPS!!! Lol!!! THEY CAN BECOME A SINK HOLE FOR WHAT I CARE!! lol!! We have OUR OWN dying on hospital wiating lists and kids getting out of school just to work a string of customer service joos!!

Unreal!!! lol!! HAHAHAH..

You know.. i'm not even going to bother finsihing this pots.. it's so unreal that you don't understand the basic, basic, basic concept of what a country is and why it is a called a 'country'.

[guyser]

We have OUR OWN dying on hospital wiating lists and kids getting out of school just to work a string of customer service joos!!

She me the list of people dying please?

[jbg]

There's one thing everyone is not saying, Arar, should have been sent back to Canada instead of being sent to Syria as he did ask for BUT the USA decided they wanted him tortured! Now, did the Canadian govt help Arar come back to this country or did they say "too bad"!!! Arar does have a mult-million lawsuit on the US and of course if they admitted they were wrong it doing to cost them plenty!

1. Canada told the US it didn't want him; and
   
2. Why isn't Arar suing Syria? Syria did the torturing, rather than Canada, which probably had good reasons for wanting him gone.
   

[Charles Anthony]

Canada told the US it didn't want him; and

Whoever was acting on behalf of "Canada" by giving that order is complicit in Arar's kidknapping.

Why isn't Arar suing Syria?

What difference does it make? A crime was committed against Arar by a Canadian. Focus. Focus.

Arar can sue Syrians later. Does Arar have to sue Syrians right now?!? right this instant?!?

[jbg]

Arar can sue Syrians later. Does Arar have to sue Syrians right now?!? right this instant?!?

His failure to do so speaks volumes, since it is the Syrians, not Canadians or Americans, who actually did the torturing.

[cynic43]

@mikedavid00

Here is some advise from a truly great American Mark Twain

It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid , than to open it and remove all doubt from it

Cheers

[Charles Anthony]

His failure to do so speaks volumes, since

-- since he lives in Canada, it speaks volumes about many other things too.

Your presumptuous conclusion is not fair.

[jbg]

His failure to do so speaks volumes, since

-- since he lives in Canada, it speaks volumes about many other things too.

Your presumptuous conclusion is not fair.

My conclusion is he picked a soft, politically exposed target rather than the wrongdoer. It's always easy to us the freedom of an open country against it than to attack a totalitarian hellhole.