When a vote will be wasted

[mikedavid00]

In reality, Canadians simply don't care about politics because most of us don't have a clue what politicians do and we don't think it matters (until we end up in a Syrian jail or on a long waiting list for surgery in which case some of us realize that politicians do have some influence on our lives).

I agree.

Canadians care about Britney Spears, cool cars, sports, etc. and voting comes last on our list of priorities.

There's a reason for this.

If you ask people who don't vote why they don't vote, they will tell you that they don't have the time.

That is proven false.

Canadians don't vote because they don't beleive in our political leaders. they don't beleive in our politics.

That's why I didn't vote.

[Saturn]

The US is much different. There are two main partieis and anything is possible.

Yes, anything - the Republicans can win or the Democrats can win.

[mikedavid00]

The US is much different. There are two main partieis and anything is possible.

Yes, anything - the Republicans can win or the Democrats can win.

But the votes are close.

And in the end both parties can't mess up the country becuase it's too democratic.

In Canada we elect dictators that can completely ruin our country.

Bob Rea, Mulrouny, Trudeau are examples

[Saturn]

We have the same thing here, vote and vote often (ok a lil joke) but one must vote if they have any interest in how the country is run.

Plenty of people do not care how things are run, and for them, stay home I guess. But for those on this board, win or lose, place your damn vote or shut up !

Agreed. People are too lazy to vote but they always have time to complain, complain, complain. I support mandatory voting. Even if it doesn't force people to think when they vote, it will at least force politicians to cater to all segments of the population (not just to the elderly or social conservatives because they are more likely to vote than others).

[blueblood]

We have the same thing here, vote and vote often (ok a lil joke) but one must vote if they have any interest in how the country is run.

Plenty of people do not care how things are run, and for them, stay home I guess. But for those on this board, win or lose, place your damn vote or shut up !

Agreed. People are too lazy to vote but they always have time to complain, complain, complain. I support mandatory voting. Even if it doesn't force people to think when they vote, it will at least force politicians to cater to all segments of the population (not just to the elderly or social conservatives because they are more likely to vote than others).

Agreed too, they make us fill out the damn census they can make us vote, mail out all the election platforms, make a decision based on the platform mail a ballot with the platforms and be done with it. I don't care if I have to wait a month for election results.

[mikedavid00]

I support mandatory voting. Even if it doesn't force people to think when they vote, it will at least force politicians to cater to all segments of the population (not just to the elderly or social conservatives because they are more likely to vote than others).

I agree.

But if people are forced to vote, they will do a bit of research and discuss it at work.

The general consensus around work last election, is that some of us weren't going to vote due to non functioning ridings.

But others didn't know who to vote and just said that they aren't going to vote. This one dude said that he didn't want to trust some new guy getting into power incase he might ruin things. He said he'd just vote Liberal. Doesn't matter because his riding was Libearl anyhow.

Of course, all the immigrans at work voted Liberal. Every single one. All but 1 were muslim.

[Charles Anthony]

Of course, all the immigrans at work voted Liberal. Every single one. All but 1 were muslim.

This xenophobia is getting tiresome.

I support mandatory voting. Even if it doesn't force people to think when they vote, it will at least force politicians to cater to all segments of the population (not just to the elderly or social conservatives because they are more likely to vote than others).

Agreed too, they make us fill out the damn census they can make us vote, mail out all the election platforms, make a decision based on the platform mail a ballot with the platforms and be done with it. I don't care if I have to wait a month for election results.

Nothing can be more absurd that mandatory voting. Mandatory voting would do NOTHING except waste paper, time and money. If you think mandatory voting would make a difference in results, you are completely delusional.

Mandatory voting belongs on the same shelf as pre-recorded laugh-tracks for sit-coms or holding up cue-cards telling the in-studio audience to say "Oooohhhh" and "Aaaaahhh" while a television game-show is being filmed.

The US is much different. There are two main partieis and anything is possible.

Yes, anything - the Republicans can win or the Democrats can win.

But the votes are close.

They are closer than close: they are exactly the same. There is no difference between the two parties.

And in the end both parties can't mess up the country becuase it's too democratic.

In Canada we elect dictators that can completely ruin our country.

Wrong. Canada is actually better because there are differences and thus there is choice.

Well, if your ballot will change nothing, then you shouldn't vote in the first place.

Correct.

Can you present one compelling reason why you SHOULD vote?

"On December 2, the Liberal candidate for Mississauga-Erindale, Omar Alghabra, made his victory speech after winning the nomination. In that speech, he reportedly exhorted his audience, "This is a victory for Islam! Islam won! Islam Won! ... Islamic power is extending into Canadian politics"."

I want a citation or a link. Otherwise, I am calling this racist trolling.

[madmax]

.

I agree.

I live an Islmic area and my MP is Omar. The Conservative runner is a Sikh which does not represnt the ethnic or religious backgroud of our area so he had no chance.

Thus I didn't even bother voting. Same thing happened with other people at work.

The only way to bring democrocy is to force voting as a civic responsibility like paying taxes.

You didn't bother to vote?

My view is, if you didn't vote, then stop whining. You got exactly what you voted for.....

nothing.

It is the easiest thing to do. It is a civic responsibility and yet you think you need to be FORCED to vote?

Man, I wonder what a foreigner thinks. Look at that raised in Canada fellow there, to lazy to vote, but not to lazy to blame me for his lack of civic duty.

[mikedavid00]

This xenophobia is getting tiresome.

Well it's the truth. That's the fact of the matter. Even if it wasn't my work collegues, it's still factually proveable that immigrants vote Liberal. A guy once said that some people can't handle the truth.

It would be the same as saying 'Quebecers vote Bloc and Liberal'. it's just fact.

Wrong. Canada is actually better because there are differences and thus there is choice.

There is choice? Well I wouldn't say so. Who is going to represent you in parliment if you vote for Green?

All NDP and Lib do is cause vote splitting and minority gov't. so it's good for CPC. You tell me how that better.

I want a citation or a link. Otherwise, I am calling this racist trolling.

As a liberal fan, you should know all about how Omar hijacked his memberships and then made this speech. It was even investigated by the Liberal Party of Canada.

You can choose google to read all the articles, but how about from the people that were there:

http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html

Read below of why I said I don't vote in my ridingg:

"I have previously voted liberal, and waited for a strong liberal candidate to be selected to run in our riding. When Mr. Alghabra was selected and noted that this was a "victory for Islam" I was very disappointed.

I am a Christian, and would have no problem voting for someone who is a Liberal candidate, and who happens to also be a Muslim. I am not willing to vote for someone who is first dedicated to being a Muslim because he does not represent me."

[Slavik44]

Honestly there area few ways I see this. One is that I have yet to find a party I can support on more then 50% of the Issues, probabley even 30% of the issues. So if I were to vote purely on seeing my own theories come to fruition it would be a wasted vote. So I just pick a few key issues for an election and vote with party that most closely falls in line with them.

Then second, is the realisation that my vote really is useless, it is just 1 vote, but if everyone thought like that, no one would vote. One pebble falling on your head will not kill you, but a landslide stands a good chance of doing so.

Which brings me to the third part of what I wanted to say. Voting is a bit of a dieing tradition in Canada, so I also feel like my vote is not just to support a party but to support a right. As a kid I remember a ver cynical view in my house towards politics and political involvement in general, it was to an extent almost seen as religously wrong.

The first time I could vote was in the B.C provincial election. I spent weeks convincing my Mom to vote with me, her arguement was it would be pointless, she would vote NDP and I woudl vote liberal and we would cancell each other out. I did convince her to come along, and we did theoretically cancell each other out. In the next municipal election, I got my Mom and Dad to come along, and then the day following the results I noticted that the person I voted for ont eh school board lost out by two votes, I had never talked to my parents about voting for anyone but the mayor...those two votes could have come in handy...and obviously ahead of time we had no idea how the school board election results would fall into place. In the most recent federal election I got my Dad, Mom, and older brother to come along and vote. In the end the attitude towards politics in my house has changed to a situation where voting is seen as a legitimate way to express political support or dissatisfaction. All I am trying to say is you don't knwo what you can accomplish until you try, and sometimes you might wish you had tried after seeing what happened as a result of your inaction.

So I guess if you view a vote as a way of supporting and excersizing a right, it is never wasted, and if you can convince more people to come along to vote, you can also change a person's attitudes about voting.

[Charles Anthony]

http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html

This is a forged website.

[mikedavid00]

http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html

This is a forged website.

No it's supposed to be like that. It's what people were saying on the CBC after it was said. CBC has a section where you can talk about your selected riding.

Just go on google and there will be a million hits on it. Some American websites even took interest in this. It's not an interesting story as it could have been because what he said wasn't 'caught on tape'. Well it probably was, but it's at a muslims house and he is certainly not going to share it with you.

I can't beleive that you never heard of this. This was big news a while back and was on the talk radio stations here in Toronto and in all the newspapers.

[Saturn]

http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html

This is a forged website.

No it's supposed to be like that. It's what people were saying on the CBC after it was said. CBC has a section where you can talk about your selected riding.

Just go on google and there will be a million hits on it. Some American websites even took interest in this. It's not an interesting story as it could have been because what he said wasn't 'caught on tape'. Well it probably was, but it's at a muslims house and he is certainly not going to share it with you.

I can't beleive that you never heard of this. This was big news a while back and was on the talk radio stations here in Toronto and in all the newspapers.

Hello? Look at the address http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html. Click on any of the links on the left and you'll switch to http://cbc.ca/.... The real CBC website is http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/ridingtalk/2005/11/156.html The word Islam is not even mentioned on the real website. Do you really think that we'd fall for a fake site?

[jdobbin]

Hello? Look at the address http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html. Click on any of the links on the left and you'll switch to http://cbc.ca/.... The real CBC website is http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/ridingtalk/2005/11/156.html The word Islam is not even mentioned on the real website. Do you really think that we'd fall for a fake site?

The Ottawa Citizen reported on this but then said that they could not get a verification on it because it seemed only to be mentioned in Conservative blogs.

[mikedavid00]

Hello? Look at the address http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html. Click on any of the links on the left and you'll switch to http://cbc.ca/.... The real CBC website is http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/ridingtalk/2005/11/156.html The word Islam is not even mentioned on the real website. Do you really think that we'd fall for a fake site?

Oh God.

Ok. The CBC website has a riding discusion forum. But it will only keep a months worth of posts or so.

Now, BACK WHEN OMAR WON, the poeple who were at the membership race posted on the CBC forum. Somone coppied the forum and pasted it on another website so people can see what people were saying during that time. Do you know what I mean?

This story is VERY common for anyone that was around at that time.

http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/005428.html

[mikedavid00]

Hello? Look at the address http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/...ryForIslam.html. Click on any of the links on the left and you'll switch to http://cbc.ca/.... The real CBC website is http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/ridingtalk/2005/11/156.html The word Islam is not even mentioned on the real website. Do you really think that we'd fall for a fake site?

The Ottawa Citizen reported on this but then said that they could not get a verification on it because it seemed only to be mentioned in Conservative blogs.

That's not true. There were numberous people who were there that wrote into the newspaper and posted on the CBC website at the time.

Not only this, but someone who had a membership did not get his invetation and had find out from someone else that the nomination was happening. When he went, he said that the room looked to be made mostly out of people that were of middle eastern descent. He basically told the Sun that he felt that the Liberal nominations were hijacked.

I was like NO REALLY?

[gc1765]

Ok. The CBC website has a riding discusion forum. But it will only keep a months worth of posts or so.

Now, BACK WHEN OMAR WON, the poeple who were at the membership race posted on the CBC forum. Somone coppied the forum and pasted it on another website so people can see what people were saying during that time. Do you know what I mean?

This story is VERY common for anyone that was around at that time.

http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/005428.html

Ummm, did you click on the link above?

During the 2006 federal election, CBC.ca created 308 discussions - one for each riding in Canada - for Canadians to write about what the residents and candidates in their ridings were talking about. Over the course of the campaign, CBC.ca published more than 10,000 reader submissions.

The discussions are now closed, but we've archived the discussion, so you can still read about the federal election from the perspective of Canadians across the country.

[mikedavid00]

Ummm, did you click on the link above?

David Ragheb, a member of the congregation, reported that following Alghabra's victory speech, Markham Councillor Khalid Osman took to the stage and declared, "We have the east, we have the west, and now we have Mississauga!" to cheers and applause from the audience. Ragheb also reported that Rogers Cable was present throughout and may have filmed the event. "A member of parliament is supposed to represent my concerns about taxes and roads in Mississauga, not promote an Islamic agenda," said Ragheb.

[jdobbin]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...5/23/c3688.html

"Atique Azad, a member of the MCC Board, said, "I attended the meeting and

was there when Alghabra spoke. At no stage during this time did he utter any

words that he is being accused of saying. The attack on Omar Alghabra by the

Canadian Coalition for Democracies is a thinly disguised attempt to portray

Muslims in a negative manner.""

[jdobbin]

Who reported what happened in the Liberal nomination?

Canadian Coalition for Democracies

Who is on the board?

''Tony Clement has been involved with the Canadian Coalition for Democracies since the summer of 2004 as the chair of the Advisory Board and National...''

http://www.cpcpsm.ca/press_releases_tony_clement.htm

There are now no references by the CCD about the nomination since Peel police were informed. The only discussion seems to be happening on their forum which cannot be verified independently.

[mikedavid00]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...5/23/c3688.html

"Atique Azad, a member of the MCC Board, said, "I attended the meeting and

was there when Alghabra spoke. At no stage during this time did he utter any

words that he is being accused of saying. The attack on Omar Alghabra by the

Canadian Coalition for Democracies is a thinly disguised attempt to portray

Muslims in a negative manner.""

Yes I'm aware of all this. This came out after Omar confirmed there was no audio or video.

Now, we can take all the Canadians who are impartial and gave testimonies that were there who posted THAT NIGHT to the CBC,

Or we can listen to Mr. Azad.

Hmmmm... descisions descisions.

[August1991]

The Mississauga-Erindale federal Liberal candidate vehemently denies allegations he made pro-Islamic remarks during his victory speech at the nomination meeting earlier this month. Omar Alghabra, 36, said the allegations were simply "not true" and were "false and inaccurate.

"I didn't say a thing about Muslims or Islam in my acceptance speech," said Alghabra, who took 488 of the 773 votes cast at the meeting Dec. 2.

"I don't agree with mixing politics and religion. Yes, I'm a Muslim, but I'm also a Liberal, a man and an engineer. The whole thing is untrue."

Mississauga News

You can read the whole convoluted story here.

[mikedavid00]

The Mississauga-Erindale federal Liberal candidate vehemently denies allegations he made pro-Islamic remarks during his victory speech at the nomination meeting earlier this month. Omar Alghabra, 36, said the allegations were simply "not true" and were "false and inaccurate.

"I didn't say a thing about Muslims or Islam in my acceptance speech," said Alghabra, who took 488 of the 773 votes cast at the meeting Dec. 2.

"I don't agree with mixing politics and religion. Yes, I'm a Muslim, but I'm also a Liberal, a man and an engineer. The whole thing is untrue."

Mississauga News

You can read the whole convoluted story here.

THanks for the link. I read the thread. What's entertaining is how people sat in denial even despite first had accounts from people that were there.

"Two things to note here. THREE people who attended the meeting have verified hearing these statements. It takes some courage to make those allegations and given that ALL THREE of the people making the allegations were SUPPORTERS of the person in question you have to wonder why they would make this up."

[mikedavid00]

There are now no references by the CCD about the nomination since Peel police were informed. The only discussion seems to be happening on their forum which cannot be verified independently.

Posted by: Mike Sulonaki | Dec 12, 2005 10:47:01 AM

"Mr. Omar, after winning the Liberal Nomination in Mississauga-Erindale, stood and announced loudly, several times, this is a VICTORY for ISLAM, ISLAM WON, ISLAM WON, he also started talking about how Islamic power is extending in the Canadian Politics, and the Muslims cheered around him.

How can a nominee who's "supposed" to present all Liberals, be in such manner?, how does the Liberal Party represent such a person ?, for the first time Canadian voting is now based on religion.

Also the Head of the Riding, was fired ONE DAY before the election by Caroline Parish for leaking out important and private information and "Violating the Canadian Privacy Law", how could that be?, how could he become the head of the riding?

Many people who live in the area went on the elections day and were notified that their names were not there !, whilst others live in Markham and were allowed to vote !!!!. True Corruption was apparent."

Posted by: jhon marez | Dec 12, 2005 3:05:39 PM

"it is really hard to vote for some body mix between politicis and religious .? is that man good enough to hold our future and our childeren's future, some body should prevent him from taking that position because what he said and what he did shows clearly what kind of hate he has inside for other religin , he pictured the situation as an Islamic war and he won"

Posted by: Dave Porter | Dec 13, 2005 10:46:24 AM

"When Mr. Alghabra was selected and noted that this was a "victory for Islam" I was very disappointed."

Posted by: Sheldon Balaski | Dec 14, 2005 8:54:47 AM

by shouting "this is the VICTORY FOR ISLAM", Mr. ELGHABRA and his supporters, that he is not trust worthy to CANADA's welfare. Only they care about ISLAMIC VICTORY.

[MightyAC]

For the life of me, I've never understood this mentality of "winning" your vote or "wasting" your vote. Does it make any difference if you happened to choose the winning side or losing side? Your ballot in either case will change absolutely nothing.

What don't you understand? Under a PR system a ballot cast for a party that does not receive the plurality of votes still helps to create representation. Currently, only those that support the leading party receive any representation.