Organized Conspiracy to make 911 look like inside job

PolyNewbie · December 14, 2006

"Platos Republic" sounds like a country, I thought maybe you thought it was a country.

Do you think Osama Bin Laden is behind the 911 truth movement ?

Take a real good look at this: Officials Question 911

Tell me how they are benefitting.

M.Dancer · December 14, 2006

My God August, I think you've got it. Who does Poly really work for?

Alcan

Figleaf · December 14, 2006

... There is an organized group of people who want to create the impression that 911 was an inside job. Who are these people?

Determined heroic friends of America.

Black Dog · December 14, 2006

Platos Republic, actually, The Rupublic Of Plato is a book (I shouldn't have expected you to know that). I'm sorry it wasn't an attempt at "intellectual thuggery".

This book, "The Republic of Plato"; is it based on, or is the title merely referencing Plato's famous work "The Republic"?

PolyNewbie · December 14, 2006

Yes, Its called "The Republic Of Plato" but it is often spoken as "Platos Republic".

I've heard it said that the USA was (before HR 6166, etc) the first Platonic Republic implemented.

Charles Anthony · December 14, 2006

This book, "The Republic of Plato"; is it based on, or is the title merely referencing Plato's famous work "The Republic"?

No. You are getting it mixed up with "The Repo Man" and the search for 1964 Chevy Malibu.

PolyNewbie · December 14, 2006

FigLeaf:Determined heroic friends of America.

Thanks Figleaf, but I think its more like:

(1) recognition of the fact that these gloabalists have created an economic culture that is rotten with corruption and they have infected nearly every area of society. Look at how cops and lawyers operate now compared to 20 - 30 years ago

(2) Culture of greed - concentration of wealth and a belief in eugenics at the top 5% income bracket

(3) Knowledge of US foreign policy and the knowing that these forces will be turned on us and the knowledge that this new collectivism is just as dangerous as the collectivism sought by Hitler, Mao TseTung and Stalin.

(4) fear of the concentration camps

(5) fear of economic collapse and dying a slow death.

PolyNewbie · December 14, 2006

Charles Anthony:No. You are getting it mixed up with "The Repo Man" and the search for 1964 Chevy Malibu.

I guess the Repo man must be something on TV for you to be referencing it. Maybe a movie. I remember the name. It couldn't be a book...

Canadian Blue · December 14, 2006

A lot of FICTIONAL TV shows will have this as an underlying theme in the TV season. Stop watching TV. You are an idiot if you watch TV.

I'm not gonna stop watching Trailer Park Boys, Family Guy, and Showcase's friday nights without borders, and you can't make me.

Thanks Figleaf, but I think its more like:
(1) recognition of the fact that these gloabalists have created an economic culture that is rotten with corruption and they have infected nearly every area of society. Look at how cops and lawyers operate now compared to 20 - 30 years ago

(2) Culture of greed - concentration of wealth and a belief in eugenics at the top 5% income bracket

(3) Knowledge of US foreign policy and the knowing that these forces will be turned on us and the knowledge that this new collectivism is just as dangerous as the collectivism sought by Hitler, Mao TseTung and Stalin.

(4) fear of the concentration camps

(5) fear of economic collapse and dying a slow death.

So this whole thing is based out of paranoia?

Yes, Its called "The Republic Of Plato" but it is often spoken as "Platos Republic".
I've heard it said that the USA was (before HR 6166, etc) the first Platonic Republic implemented.

Plato's Republic, the evils of TV, etc. How much worse can it get.

I posted a video which disputes all of Loose Changes "claims".

Air Traffic Controllers say 911 was an inside job because they tracked the planes to their targets and were gagged.

Wow, a shotty video constitutes proof.

"You gotta catapult the propoganda" - GW Bush
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." -GW Bush, Sept 13, 2001

"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him...to be honest with you." - GW Bush, March 13, 2002

"I don't know where [Osama bin Laden] is and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." -GW Bush, March 13, 2003

"Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations." -GW Bush, Oct 13, 2004

Did you just make those up, or take every single quote out of context?

Why do you continue to spread this propaganda on here, it's very clear that your working with the terrorists.

PS: The above argument is usually the one you always make when somebody proves you wrong, except you blame the CIA or Media for hiding the truth.

PolyNewbie · December 15, 2006

Canadian Blue: Why do you continue to spread this propaganda on here, it's very clear that your working with the terrorists.

How is that clear ?. You are right about one thing - I cannot stop you from watching TV.

I posted a video which disputes all of Loose Changes "claims".

Good for you.

Try it with 911Mysteries: Part1: Demolition.

Loose Change was an old movie, much has been learned since then.

NIST has also reworked what they have said since Loose Change . Loose Change 3 will be comming out.

Canadian Blue · December 18, 2006

You've posted the same garbage video 100 times, and nobody buys into it yet.

NIST has also reworked what they have said since Loose Change . Loose Change 3 will be comming out.

Once again, another example of making an accusation with no substance.

I watch TV, perhaps you should try watching TV once in a while, then you can reconnect with the world outside of your parents basement.

PolyNewbie · December 18, 2006

CanadianBlue:Once again, another example of making an accusation with no substance.

If I can show that the official reasons for the wtc7 collapse has changed more than three times will you promise never to participate in another 911 diswcussion with me ? - your posts are foolish.

Canadian Blue · December 18, 2006

If I can show that the official reasons for the wtc7 collapse has changed more than three times will you promise never to participate in another 911 diswcussion with me ? - your posts are foolish.

Using what, quotes from within a day of the attack when their was mass confusion?

My posts have something your posts are lacking, common sense.

PolyNewbie · December 18, 2006

CanadianBlue:Using what, quotes from within a day of the attack when their was mass confusion?

No, over months and years. The official explanation for wtc7 collapse has changed more than three times.

If I show you the three times (plus - I think its five now) will you go away?

CanadianBlue:I watch TV, perhaps you should try watching TV once in a while, then you can reconnect with the world outside of your parents basement.

Typical neocon fascists techniques of arguement. Make stuff up to discredit your opponent. Your posts are full of it.

Canadian Blue · December 18, 2006

No, over months and years. The official explanation for wtc7 collapse has changed more than three times.
If I show you the three times (plus - I think its five now) will you go away?

I think theirs only one person that people want to go away, and its the person who keeps on making chicken noises in posts.

By the way, you've said that so many times, it makes me wonder why you don't just post it. So we call rip it apart, and show you how inconsistent it is. Then you can tell us all how we were hired by the government to disrupt your claims.

Typical neocon fascists techniques of arguement. Make stuff up to discredit your opponent. Your posts are full of it.

This political test I did gave me a result which read moderate populist liberal. I'm no neo-con son, and your only discrediting yourself. What arguments have you come up with so far:

-Anti-semitism[the definition] is a form of thought control

-The WTC was possibly brought down by a phaser beam

-FEMA has death camps all around the US

-The US is the worst police state in a 1000 years [even worse than the Nazi's!]

-You love Lyndon Larouche, despite the fact many believe he is a fascist

-You believe the US conspired to shoot down a plane containing a congressman who was planning on running for president, despite the fact he would have never had a chance at winning

PolyNewbie · December 18, 2006

CanadianBlue:By the way, you've said that so many times, it makes me wonder why you don't just post it. So we call rip it apart, and show you how inconsistent it is. Then you can tell us all how we were hired by the government to disrupt your claims.

You have never been able to dispute one of my claims. I can find this and post it but I want you to go away when I am done because you have done nothing but attempt to distort this subject because you don't like it.

You have used Elvis, Aliens,the Never Ending Story and Anti Semitism to distort threads relating to this topic. You must because any link sup[porting the official story that you post can easily be shown to be a lie. This is particularly true wrt building construction of wtc's by people who are "debunking" the conspiracy theories.

Wrt wtc7, the official claims have been fire damage, structural damage, exploding diesel fuel to name three.

CanadianBlue:
-Anti-semitism[the definition] is a form of thought control

Yes, all cencorship is a form of thought control. That is the idea behind it.

-The WTC was possibly brought down by a phaser beam

No. You keep saying that but that doesn't make it true.

-FEMA has death camps all around the US

Yes, many are linked by rail and have asphixiation facilities and equipment to dig mass graves.

-The US is the worst police state in a 1000 years [even worse than the Nazi's!]

Yes, HR 6166 and the military commisions act make it legally possible to do mass exterminations. No one in history has ever codified this in law. Many legal professors have said that this is worse than Nazis or Russians and they have experessed their surprise that a country would actually codify this.

-You love Lyndon Larouche, despite the fact many believe he is a fascist

I do not know much about LaRouche but I will know a lot more soon. He isn't a fascist.

-You believe the US conspired to shoot down a plane containing a congressman who was planning on running for president, despite the fact he would have never had a chance at winning

Yes. I do believe that and his name was Larry MacDonald. He spoke up against this New World Order quite often and was re-elected many times. He spoke of an incredibly evil comspiracy being lead by the Rockefellers.

Canadian Blue · December 19, 2006

You have used Elvis, Aliens,the Never Ending Story and Anti Semitism to distort threads relating to this topic. You must because any link sup[porting the official story that you post can easily be shown to be a lie. This is particularly true wrt building construction of wtc's by people who are "debunking" the conspiracy theories.

Strangely enough only you and maybe one other person believes the government did it. Interesting, we have lawyers, and educated people on here, yet they seem to think your full of BS. Maybe their all in on it PN.

Yes, all cencorship is a form of thought control. That is the idea behind it.

So your saying that its allright to be an anti-semite. I don't quite get what your saying? Tell me the conspiracy theory behind it.

Yes, many are linked by rail and have asphixiation facilities and equipment to dig mass graves.

Yet are unguarded, since as we saw somebody made a crappy video on it. Honestly, your so paranoid I don't know were to start. I've allready debunked that theory and you can't figure it out yet.

Yes, HR 6166 and the military commisions act make it legally possible to do mass exterminations. No one in history has ever codified this in law. Many legal professors have said that this is worse than Nazis or Russians and they have experessed their surprise that a country would actually codify this.

Mass extermination's, find me one part of the act that allow's the American government to commit mass extermination's. The official document, once again your simply proving to be a nutcase. Find me the legal professor's who say this is worse then the nazi's.

Do you even know what the Nazi's and Soviet's did, or was it all a conspiracy as well?

I do not know much about LaRouche but I will know a lot more soon. He isn't a fascist.

You made a thread dedicated to him, and apparently he's even more paranoid than you.

Yes. I do believe that and his name was Larry MacDonald. He spoke up against this New World Order quite often and was re-elected many times. He spoke of an incredibly evil comspiracy being lead by the Rockefellers.

Wow, and what does this evil conspiracy consist of, I need some more humour on here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefellar

You have never been able to dispute one of my claims. I can find this and post it but I want you to go away when I am done because you have done nothing but attempt to distort this subject because you don't like it.

Everyone has debunked your theories, all you have been able to do is post some crappy video done up by a college dropout.

No. You keep saying that but that doesn't make it true.

I remember you talking about a phaser beam on here, but you dropped it and went on to something else once you found out it only made you sound crazier.

Wrt wtc7, the official claims have been fire damage, structural damage, exploding diesel fuel to name three.

Wouldn't fire damage, structural damage, and exploding diesel fuel all contribute to a tower falling down. My brother's a firefighter, and he say's that usually a fire will cause structural damage which was caused by the fire, and the fire was caused by the diesel fuel. Seem's to make sense to me.

Yes. I do believe that and his name was Larry MacDonald. He spoke up against this New World Order quite often and was re-elected many times. He spoke of an incredibly evil comspiracy being lead by the Rockefellers.

Larry MacDonald was also president of the John Birch Society. Anybody else up to learn about that great society.

During the 1960s, the JBS opposed the Civil Rights Movement since it was rumored that it was backed and supported by the American Communist Party. Yet, the John Birch Society has always described itself as being open to people of all races and religions and is staunchly against communist beliefs. The Society maintains that its rumored backing by the Communist party was an attack by the conspiratorial efforts that it believes exists and actively opposes.

Hate's Martin Luther King for apparently being backed by the communist's.

The Society wound up at the center of an important free-speech law case in the 1970s, after one of its magazines, American Opinion, accused a Chicago lawyer representing the family of a young man killed by a police officer of being part of a Communist conspiracy to merge all police agencies in the country into one large force. The resulting libel suit, Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., reached the United States Supreme Court, which said opinions cannot be false under the First Amendment (while nevertheless finding for the plaintiff, who prevailed upon retrial).

Another crazy conspiracy theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society

So let me get this straight, do you just believe every single event in the world is a conspiracy PN?

Have you ever considered joining some right wing militia group PN, I think some guys made the militia famous down in the states, who was that again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

I wonder how long it'll be before one of these radical truthies decides to bomb some government building due to the conspiracy.

PolyNewbie · December 19, 2006

CanadianBlue:Everyone has debunked your theories, all you have been able to do is post some crappy video done up by a college dropout.

You keep repeating this in hopes that someone will think its true. Most of your posts are just lies and propoganda.

Where is the college drop out in this link OfficialsQuestion911Report or this link Scholars for 911 Truth ?

When have I ever used a link to a college droput ? You are exposing what you to any truth seeker that may be reading your posts. Your lies and techniques of misinfiormation are well known and you are not fooling anyone.

All the links I have used in this arguement, both here and elsewhere reference top people in government and in scientific fields.

Your post is just garbage.

PolyNewbie · December 19, 2006

from:http://mrspickles.wordpress.com/2006/12/05/military-commissions-act-a-precursor-to-tyranny/

"In an interview with nationally syndicated radio talk show host Alex Jones, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas recently discussed President Bush’s support for the Military Commissions Act. During the interview, Paul said that “the law officially allows for citizen concentration camp facilities.”

Paul also warned that “the Military Commissions Act and the Defense Authorization Act . . . essentially wipes out Habeas Corpus.”

Paul continued by noting, “Right now we don’t have concentration camps, but . . . the authority has been given so that concentration camps can come without Habeas Corpus.” He then said, “If they can lock you up, what good is freedom of speech or what good is a gun?”

Couple the implementation of the Military Commissions Act with the already-passed USA Patriot Act and all the legalities necessary to completely eviscerate America’s constitutionally-protected liberties are in place. Think of it. Without firing a shot or dropping a bomb, President George W. Bush has done more to strip the American people of their liberties than all the world’s despots and dictators combined!

Consider further the recent statements of former house speaker Newt Gingrich. According to the (Manchester, NH) Union Leader, “Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich yesterday [Monday, Nov. 27] in Manchester said the country will be forced to reexamine freedom of speech to meet the threat of terrorism.

"

Drea · December 19, 2006

Temperature of Buring Jet Fuel:

JET A-1

Flash point: 38 °C

Autoignition temperature: 210 °C

Freezing point: -47 °C (-40 °C for JET A)

Open air burning temperatures: 260-315 °C

Maximum burning temperature: 980 °C

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

Temperature required to melt steel:

I do believe it is higher than 980 degrees C.

Can you find this Poly? I have to work now and don't have time.... thanks!

Riverwind · December 19, 2006

Temperature required to melt steel:
I do believe it is higher than 980 degrees C.

The strength of steel drops rapidly as the temperature increases. It is not necessary to melt steel to cause a building built from steel to collapse. Simply heating the steel is enough.

PolyNewbie · December 19, 2006

Paint analysis by NIST shows most steel never got hotter than 250 deg C. Steel begins to lose strength around 600 deg C.

The buildings are overbuilt to withstand the 150 year storm. Wind is the biggest load on 'scrapers, not mass. There was no wind that day.

Riverwind · December 19, 2006

Paint analysis by NIST shows most steel never got hotter than 250 deg C. Steel begins to lose strength around 600 deg C.

The complete analysis suggests that many of the support beams had their protective insulation stripped off and that they were likely exposed to flames in excess of 600 deg. Incidently, why to quote the NIST report if you refuse to accept its conclusions or other evidence that contradicts the conspiracy theory?

The buildings are overbuilt to withstand the 150 year storm. Wind is the biggest load on 'scrapers, not mass. There was no wind that day.

Wind is a sideways shearing force which has little or no connection with the downward force of gravity. These buildings are overbuilt but they will collapse if the main supports are weakened.

Canadian Blue · December 19, 2006

You keep repeating this in hopes that someone will think its true. Most of your posts are just lies and propoganda.

You figured it out, I work for the CIA dude.

"In an interview with nationally syndicated radio talk show host Alex Jones, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas recently discussed President Bush’s support for the Military Commissions Act. During the interview, Paul said that “the law officially allows for citizen concentration camp facilities.”

That's the best you can do, some quote taken out of context. Find the part of the official act which allow's motherf$%kin genocide. Get me the part of the act that says the US can take part in genocide.

Canada had concentration camp's in the 1940's, it doesn't make us similar to the Nazi's, its just a term.

By the way you still haven't found a source for those legal professors who say the US is worse than the Nazi's.

When have I ever used a link to a college droput ? You are exposing what you to any truth seeker that may be reading your posts. Your lies and techniques of misinfiormation are well known and you are not fooling anyone.

Well the Rockefellars have me on payroll PN.

As for Scholars for Truth. I'll help you out.

Critics observed their website lists only three structural engineers as members [5], and argue that the engineers involved with the scholars have little or no relevant experience or qualifications in the disciplines related to structural engineering or controlled demolitions. [5]. Critics also noted that they have just one American Society of Civil Engineers member, Joseph M. Phelps [6]. Other critiques have noted the bias in the website's Pentagon views and the inclusion of information which has little basis in evidence[7].

A member of Scholars for Truth is believed to be insane.

Critics in German newspapers and journals hold that von Bülow's suggestions are "absurd"[4], and some even question his sanity. A German website with the intent to expose "factual errors" in "conspiracy theories" about the 9/11 attacks devotes much space to von Bülow.

Two members of the group, Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds, left the Scholars due to disagreement with the organization, objecting in particular to the Scholar's rejection of their 'no plane' theories (theories arguing that no planes hit the World Trade Center).[8] However, st911 co-founder, co-chair and webmaster James Fetzer has recently spoken and written positively about Judy Wood's views - a piece by Fetzer on the st911 website argues that the Scholars should now broaden their research to consider the possibility that "directed energy...space based" weapons or "mini-nukes" were used to bring down the World Trade Center [9]. Former co-chair Steven E. Jones resigned over a dispute regarding "star wars beam weapons" as a plausible theory [10].

A massive phaser energy beam! :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Conspiracy

There is widespread agreement, however, about the significance of the controlled demolition hypothesis, even among those who don't endorse it specifically or conspiracy theories in general. The necessary devices could only have been planted well in advance of the September 11 attacks and would have required extraordinary access to three highly secured buildings.

The mainstream scientific community does not support the controlled demolition hypothesis and U.S. officials, mainstream journalists, and mainstream researchers have concluded that only al-Qaeda was involved in the attacks.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11.html

“Not so fast,” the 9/11 Truth Movement might say. How do you explain the collapse of WTC Building 7, which was not struck by an airplane? Many 9/11 conspiracy theorists maintain that the collapse of this building at about 5:20 pm on 9/11 would not have occurred unless it was already prepared for demolition. The conspiracy theorists assume that damage sustained by WTC 7 during the attack was not sufficient to trigger its collapse. The site wtc7.net claims that “fires were observed in Building 7 prior to its collapse, but they were isolated in small parts of the building, and were puny by comparison to other building fires.” They further claim that any damage from falling debris from WTC 1 and WTC 2 would have needed to be symmetrical to trigger the pancaking collapse of WTC 7.10
These arguments only reveal the assumptions of their authors. First, the fires burning in WTC 7 were extremely extensive, as Figure 3 shows. The reason this is not obvious from 9/11 Truth Movement presentations and documentaries is that they tend to only show the north side of WTC 7, selectively causing the building to appear both far less ravaged by fire and structural damage than it actually was (see Figure 4).

Firefighter Richard Banaciski notes the difference in appearance between the north and south sides of the building in his first-person account:

We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors.11

Figure 3 WTC 7 seen from the Southwest side, showing the true extent of fire and structural damage

Emergency response workers at Ground Zero realized that extensive damage to the lower south section of WTC 7 would cause collapse as early as 3 pm on 9/11, a fact reported on news broadcasts at the time.12 Video footage shows that when collapse occurred, the south wall of the building gave in first, which is exactly what we would expect based on the location of the most extensive damage. As noted for the collapse of the South Tower, the mechanics of the building’s fall are completely consistent with the nature of the damage sustained. The planned demolition hypothesis, on the other hand, fails to explain why collapse would begin at exactly the point where damage was inflicted, since the conspirators would have had to been able to predict exactly where debris from the fallen North and South Towers would strike WTC 7. And while the makers of the documentary Loose Change comment that WTC 7 “fell straight down, into a convenient pile,” the truth is that the pile of debris was 12 stories high and 150 meters across, hardly the kind of “convenient pile” described by conspiracy theorists.

It's funny how PN can only make argument's with absolutely no backing what so ever, and if he does make an argument he can never seem to back it up and only uses some nutjobs.

http://www.debunking911.com/

http://www.alternet.org/story/12536/

http://www.geocities.com/factsnotfantasy/

http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/9-11conspiracytheories.pdf

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/educatio...126915#continue

Take that Ted Kaczy.... I mean Poly.

Sorry, I don't know why I would think I was replying to Ted Kaczynski. Alot of smart people are crazy Poly, Kaczynski had an IQ between 160-170. Unless somehow a government conspiracy goes along with that as well, which wouldn't surprise me.

PolyNewbie · December 20, 2006

Riverwind:The complete analysis suggests that many of the support beams had their protective insulation stripped off and that they were likely exposed to flames in excess of 600 deg. Incidently, why to quote the NIST report if you refuse to accept its conclusions or other evidence that contradicts the conspiracy theory?

I never said NIST was lying. I reject their hypothesis of the buildings collapsing straight down in a controlled manner due to fires & damage. They certainly do not prove it - I suspect because it cannot be proved.

Riverwind:Wind is a sideways shearing force which has little or no connection with the downward force of gravity. These buildings are overbuilt but they will collapse if the main supports are weakened.

Right but I do not make the claim that wind was involved only that the buildings had to be built much stronger than to withstand gravity forces alone. Its common sense that the buildings cannot collapse straight down because collapsing straight down is the path of most resistance because the top part of the building has to go through the rest of the building instead of just air.

Also, looking at the film footage it is easy to see that the buildings were blown apart starting from top to bottom. They did not pancake, it was a progressive explosion. If you cannot see this plainly then explain how parts were ejected upward during the collapse. A graviational collapse would not cause this. The video looks like the buildings were blown apart but people are told they pancaked so they believe it becasue if you believe that the buildings were blown apart then you must believe it was an inside job and some people reject that automatically without giving it any considereation.

CanadianBlue:That's the best you can do, some quote taken out of context. Find the part of the official act which allow's motherf$%kin genocide. Get me the part of the act that says the US can take part in genocide.

I'm not going to do this unless some other poster asks me - in which case I will look for it. I have heard a few interviews with top justices that explain what Ron Paul says. They say that anyone can be legally dissapeared and that anyone who discusses these dissapearances can be legally made to dissapear as well. The laws in the USA are much worse than anything Stalin or Hitler committed to paper. They do not say "we can take part in genocide" but they do say they can make people dissapear forever and that Habeus corpus is gone. When habeus corpus is gone - that is it. They can accuse you of whatever they want and lock you up for as long as they want or kill you.

CanadianBlue:It's funny how PN can only make argument's with absolutely no backing what so ever, and if he does make an argument he can never seem to back it up and only uses some nutjobs.

I have posted links to congressmen, senators, multiple Phd engineers, brigadier generals, colonels,ex heads of intelligence agencies (FBI/CIA), scientists, ex heads of intelligence from other countries, & ex cheif presidential advisors. According to CanadianBlue these people are all nutjobs. I say CanadianBlue is the nutjob and this will be the last question of his that I answer.