a religiously radical video game?

[DarkAngel_]

this is a front story at yahoo.com

NEW YORK - Targeted largely at conservative Christians, it's a violent video game with a difference: Combatants on one side pause for prayer, and their favored interjection is "Praise the Lord."

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Critics say "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" glorifies religious violence against non-Christians. Some liberal groups have been urging a boycott, and on Tuesday they urged Wal-Mart to withdraw the game from its shelves.

However, Troy Lyndon, CEO of Left Behind Games Inc., defended the game as "inspirational entertainment" and said its critics were exaggerating. He expressed greater concern about poor reviews from some video-game aficionados, saying the company would offer a free technical upgrade by Dec. 24.

Lyndon's company, based in Murrieta, Calif., has a license to develop games based on the popular "Left Behind" novels, a Bible-based end-of-the-world-saga that has sold more than 63 million copies.

Lyndon, in a telephone interview, said "Eternal Forces" has been distributed to more than 10,000 retail locations over the past four weeks. He said sales were going well, but declined to give specifics.

The real-time strategy game has received a T (for teen) rating, as its makers had hoped. It offers more violence than an E-rated children's game, but less graphically than M (for mature) rated games that have often been criticized by conservative Christian groups.

"Our game includes violence, but excludes blood, decapitation, killing of police officers," the company says on its Web site, noting that a player can lose points for "unnecessary killing" and regain them through prayer.

The game's story line game begins after the rapture, when most Christians are transported to heaven. Earth's remaining population is faced with a choice of joining or combatting the Antichrist, as embodied by a force called the Global Community Peacekeepers that seeks to impose one-world government.

The game's critics depict the ensuing struggle, set in New York City, as one fostering religious intolerance.

"Part of the object is to kill or convert the opposing forces," said the Rev. Tim Simpson of Jacksonville, Fla., who heads the Christian Alliance for Progress. "It is antithetical to the Gospel of Jesus Christ."

Simpson, whose group was formed last year to counter the influence of the religious right, joined in a news conference Tuesday at which he and other speakers urged Wal-Mart to discontinue sales of "Eternal Forces".

Wal-Mart indicated it would continue selling the game online and in selected stores where it felt there was demand.

"The product has been selling in those stores," said spokeswoman Tara Raddohl. "The decision on what merchandise we offer in our stores is based on what we think our customers want the opportunity to buy."

The game's makers contend that the violence from the good side — the Tribulation Force — is exclusively defensive, and should not be seen as contrary to church teachings.

"Christians are quite clearly taught to turn the other cheek and to love their enemies," the company Web site says. "It is equally true that no one should forfeit their lives to an aggressor who is bent on inflicting death."

Lyndon said he and his fellow executives hoped to ease critics' concerns.

"They're good-minded people," he said. "They want to keep us from making games that are jihad in the name of God."

Simpson, a Presbyterian Church USA pastor, said he was dismayed by the concept in "Eternal Forces" of using prayer to restore a player's "spirit points" after killing the enemy.

"The idea that you could pray, and the deleterious effects of one's foul deeds would simply be wiped away, is a horrible thing to be teaching Christian young people here at Christmas time," Simpson said.

Anther participant in the critics' news conference, author Frederick Clarkson, argued that "Eternal Forces" — though less violent than many other video games — was more troubling in some ways.

"It becomes a tool of religious instruction," he said. "The message is. ... there will be religious warfare, and you will target your fellow Americans, people from other faiths, people who you consider to be sinners."

Clarkson faulted Focus on the Family, a Colorado-based Christian ministry often critical of violent video games, for publishing a positive review of "Eternal Forces" on one of its Web sites.

"Eternal Forces is the kind of game that Mom and Dad can actually play with Junior and use to raise some interesting questions along the way," wrote the reviewer, Bob Hoose.

Other online reviewers — writing for hardcore gamers — have been less impressed.

"Don't mock 'Left Behind: Eternal Forces' because it's a Christian game. Mock it because it's a very bad game," wrote GameSpot reviewer Brett Todd

this is pushing it alittle don't you think?

[Remiel]

People will exploit any and every medium in the pursuit of furthering their agenda, including video games. Be thankful that the game is apparently of extremely poor quality to begin with, though with all things, they will probably learn and do better next time.

I can just imagine the witch-hunt that would ensue, however, if some store like Wal-Mart started selling a game made by Muslim developers that focused on the killing of Christians, Jews and Western forces leading up to the "Apocalypse". They are plenty of games however that focus on killing people who are predominantly Muslim though, post September 11, 2001, and no one seems to care.

[kimmy]

This GameSpy review says the game kind of sucks... lousy gameplay, weak game mechanics, poor graphics and art design.

Of the "controversial" aspects of the game, the review says "the hysteria is seriously overblown":

The other "controversial" aspect of the game is its explicit connection to evangelical Christian philosophy. Here too, the hysteria is seriously overblown. Within the game itself, the amount of proselytizing is kept to a minimum. Units bow their heads to pray in order to replenish their "spirit" resource and giving a unit orders may elicit a response like "For the Lord!" or "In His name!" Prayer scrolls with Biblical verses are also available as power-ups that can call down angels for bonuses, but anyone looking for explicit "Kill the unbelievers!"-style content to justify their fear of the game won't find it here. The biggest "message" portion of the game is actually the "Learn more" screens that become available after each mission. These display interesting text passages about the history of Christianity and CliffsNotes versions of aspects of evangelical theology while playing cuts from top-selling Christian musical acts (with a convenient "buy the album" link to the Internet).

...

In the end, the greatest irony of Left Behind: Eternal Forces is that it doesn't have much to appeal to anyone. As representations of the End Times go, this one's about as scary as a Sunday school play (and not as well written), and if you're the kind of person who goes into apoplexy when a sales clerk wishes you Merry Christmas, there's simply not enough fire and brimstone here to latch onto for a really good Two-Minute Hate. For those who are simply gamers, well, there's a surplus of great real-time strategy games out there, and so Left Behind becomes an apt title, telling you exactly what to do with it.

The game is apparently based on a series of books. The thing I find most interesting is that the forces of the Antichrist are apparently modelled after the United Nations. I hope Kofi Annann's feelings haven't been too badly hurt.

As Remiel points out, people are now using the medium of video games to spread the message. The US Army, the intifada, and even al Qaeda are in the video game business, perhaps hoping to spread their views or attract new members.

-k

[betsy]

I love Real Time Strategies, so after reading about it here, of course I automatically checked out the review on Gamespot. It's only on PC it seems...and it has a very bad review. Rating of 3.4 out of 10.

The gameplay premise seemd very interesting for me (it's sounds more like an RPG than the RTS I know such as Command and Conquer)...but apparently, it's "buggy."

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/leftbe...tml?sid=6162370

[betsy]

A lot of RPGs and Adventure games are touched by religion or faith. Not necessarily outright Christian or Muslims....but some have resemblance to the mentioned religions and others....or mixtures of various religious belief and mystical fantasy in one. Pagan worships, and something that resembles wiccan are very common too. Actually it's rare to find such games without a base on religion or faith. One of the impressive cut scenes I've ever seen depicting the story of creation and destruction with religious tones is the N64 Zelda (the very first one that was released on N64). Geesh, some "faith" depicted in such fictional narratives sound so compelling with all its intricacies...and to think that most gamers are children and young adults. But of course, RPGs and Adventure premise is the same old battle between good and evil.

[DarkAngel_]

A lot of RPGs and Adventure games are touched by religion or faith. Not necessarily outright Christian or Muslims....but some have resemblance to the mentioned religions and others....or mixtures of various religious belief and mystical fantasy in one. Pagan worships, and something that resembles wiccan are very common too. Actually it's rare to find such games without a base on religion or faith. One of the impressive cut scenes I've ever seen depicting the story of creation and destruction with religious tones is the N64 Zelda (the very first one that was released on N64). Geesh, some "faith" depicted in such fictional narratives sound so compelling with all its intricacies...and to think that most gamers are children and young adults. But of course, RPGs and Adventure premise is the same old battle between good and evil.

even as an atheist i feel the glory of battle, indeed by perceiving the believer as a charictar of true fortitude, as to be one that may be an act! that is most desired, i love a religous base in a video game, as long as it is original and not 'based' of a real religon, you see i think then they may be pushing an agenda, play 'kingdom under fire' and realize that as fun as it is, the story is a race between minority evil that turned into a majority, and the lawfully faithful killing in the name of god, it's the knights of templer all over again....

i prefer the bust from turriny, like braveheart, good movie.

[Remiel]

Nice to see that people of radically different opinions can still be brought together by the love of one of the number one time wasters there is, video games, hehehe...

Anyway, I wonder how many people here have ever played The Political Machine...

[betsy]

Anyway, I wonder how many people here have ever played The Political Machine...

Oy, never heard of it!

What genre is it?

[GostHacked]

Betsy, RTS??? You are a woman after my own geek-heart. When me and my pals LAN, they hate playing RTSs with me. Homeworld2 for example. Company of Heros I am still getting the hang of.

Many games are propaganda for something. America's Army (Online FPS) was developed by the US Army using the Unreal(2) Engine. Very tactical and realistic. It is not a run and gun. Losts of strategy, and there are plenty of different maps. I really only have played Bridge.

Some games are real subtle with the message. But most video games I will say are US orientated and Christian values are evident in most video games.

Racing games rarely IF at all have a religious overtone. I guess unless it is the god fearing NASCAR'ers.

Being a person of no religion at all, I miss alot of those overtones and suggestive dialogue in games. I just want to get lost in the game.

[betsy]

Betsy, RTS??? You are a woman after my own geek-heart. When me and my pals LAN, they hate playing RTSs with me. Homeworld2 for example. Company of Heros I am still getting the hang of.

Many games are propaganda for something. America's Army (Online FPS) was developed by the US Army using the Unreal(2) Engine. Very tactical and realistic. It is not a run and gun. Losts of strategy, and there are plenty of different maps. I really only have played Bridge.

Some games are real subtle with the message. But most video games I will say are US orientated and Christian values are evident in most video games.

I got introduced to RTS with "Command and Conquer" for N64 and Dune 2000 for PS2. I've been searching for those kind of games ever since....however most RTS games reviewed seem to have poor quality. I do not enjoy playing on the computer so the games had to be either on N64 or PS2.

Then I also discovered what they call the "tactics". It started with Vandal Hearts, then Final Fantasy, and Dynasty Warriors. I have Romance of the Three Kingdoms (a war strategy), but have not played it yet....somehow I do not look forward to reading the tutorials. But it's waiting should I have the desire someday to tackle it.

But I did really enjoy C&C and Dune 2000...using the controls was simple enough. And I am really very much into one-player mode. My poor school kid keeps asking me to get into two-player with him...and I always find an excuse... I guess one of these days I'd have to sit it out and make him happy.

[geoffrey]

C&C is a classic.

[blueblood]

C&C is a classic.

Total War Series, instant classic

[GostHacked]

I got introduced to RTS with "Command and Conquer" for N64 and Dune 2000 for PS2. I've been searching for those kind of games ever since....however most RTS games reviewed seem to have poor quality. I do not enjoy playing on the computer so the games had to be either on N64 or PS2.

How the hell does one play an RTS on a console?? I am 85/15% PC/PStwo.

RTS's that rock on PC

Homeworld series (1, 1.5 Cataclysm, 2)

Dawn of War and expansions (Winter Assault, Dark Crusade)

Company of Heros

Command and Conquer - Generals:Zero Hour.

IMHO - Relic/THQ have been a cornerstone of my RTS gamming experience. Anything they put out is simply amazing. In Company of Heros they even take a nice stab at EA (Electronic Arts). On the Allies Jeeps there is a work in army font on the truck E45UX5. Try Homeworld out, it is a slower paced RTS, but the interface/control scheme is simply mind blowing.

Also Final Fantasy is RPG not RTS. And I prefer to game with others. You should play a few games with your son, either against him or play on the same team against AIs.

Me and my friends (about 6 of us) that have been LANin on a for the most part weekly basis for the last 7 years. Much more fun to gather in one place, have a few drinks and game untill the wee hours of the morning. Couple weeks ago we has 8 players out. Quake 3 Capture the Flag 4v4 was laughs a plenty. BTW I pretty much am the suck for FPSs.

[DarkAngel_]

RTS??? i like em to, but they seem to have had a frenchus funrel down in the states *tear....*

but the best i played are: starcraft, warcraft 3, startrek armada 2, strong hold 2, age of mitholigy and zeus and posiden. which is also a builders classic.

i wish they would mix an MMO, RPG, and RTS into 1, make is easy to start, custimization with wep's and other items, building of a fort or house, that cost's gold to expand, a random map generator with broad dialog qeustes, a tech tree, other players who can do the same, and NPC units that you can hire or build to be your forces, and also have a top camera veiw, and 1st/3rd person. make it spand from freelancer to king and make it player flexable like the elderscrolls series, but make it so main plots can be created by players so that the player could be the villian as well, with a goal and reward of corse.

oh and also, make buildings that have that 'fall apart' property, like the villagers build and tear down houses after awhile, also make it so that, mattering on money class, they add on and remodel, also you can destroy buildings! either by breaking all the supports, burning it down, spells, or seige wep. also after awhile, your charictar's dammage to the town would be rebuilt, but diffrently.

you can start a township, under the king, or with your own money, tame creatures like dragons, chop down tree's in order to add cover in an attack, ya know, use the terrain. make it like D&D, pets and such.

i think i'm rambling, but would a game like this be worthy of your money?

[betsy]

Also Final Fantasy is RPG not RTS.

Yes. But they've released Final Fantasy Tactics. You place your characters in grids.

Popular titles have dabbled in tactics. Ogre Battle is another RPG that released a tactic.

Other newer title is Gladius by LucasArts...that one is also fun! I'm waiting for a sequel.

One of the best tactics I've played is Dynasty Warriors tactics. It's like chess...you place your characters in grids, then once you're done...you just sit back and watch it all happen in action. The more chain reaction combos you make, the more points you score. The graphics is not as awesome as the latest ones...but still quite enjoyable to behold.

[betsy]

i wish they would mix an MMO, RPG, and RTS into 1, make is easy to start, custimization with wep's and other items, building of a fort or house, that cost's gold to expand, a random map generator with broad dialog qeustes, a tech tree, other players who can do the same, and NPC units that you can hire or build to be your forces, and also have a top camera veiw, and 1st/3rd person. make it spand from freelancer to king and make it player flexable like the elderscrolls series, but make it so main plots can be created by players so that the player could be the villian as well, with a goal and reward of corse.

oh and also, make buildings that have that 'fall apart' property, like the villagers build and tear down houses after awhile, also make it so that, mattering on money class, they add on and remodel, also you can destroy buildings! either by breaking all the supports, burning it down, spells, or seige wep. also after awhile, your charictar's dammage to the town would be rebuilt, but diffrently.

you can start a township, under the king, or with your own money, tame creatures like dragons, chop down tree's in order to add cover in an attack, ya know, use the terrain. make it like D&D, pets and such.

i think i'm rambling, but would a game like this be worthy of your money?

The one you've described above? Oh yeah! Imagine the amount of value for money on the gameplay! I love the type of building empires....I was hoping for the Age of Empire...but it had a very bad review for PS2. The Romance of The Three Kingdoms apparently has that kind of gameplay.

[Remiel]

Anyway, in an attempt to keep this thread somewhere within the confines of politics, I'll tell you all what I can remember about The Political Machine.

The game is, I believe, made by Stardock, and it is a simulation of American presidential politics, mostly I believe, heavily emphasizing the Red State vs. Blue State dynamic. Every time there is a presidential election, I believe they release either a new update or a new game (I'm not sure which) that focuses on the new candidates and issues. That's about as in depth as I can get, I'm not sure I've ever even played one of the demos...

Anyway, if there were ever a Canadian iteration, I think I could get really interested.

Now, where were we? As much as I'd like to get into MMOGs, I play games addictively usually until I beat them at least, and then I often play much less. Back when MUDs (Mutli-User Dungeons) were the primary form of MMOGs, I could and would play every day. While I have more control over myself than I did then, getting into World of Queuecraft would probably be VERY, VERY BAD for me. Thankfully, I only have dial-up and no desire to pay like $15-$25 a month... Which really hurts, because I am a fan of the WarCraft Universe... Then, of course, there is Guild Wars... If I were to get into a MMORPG, that would probably be it, since there is no ongoing subscription. You just buy the game and play.

Even though, strictly speaking, I think I prefer RPGs more, I have more RTS games than RPGs. I also have two 4X games, Alpha Centauri + Alien Crossfire, and Galactic Civilization II, and for GBA Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones. Unfortunately, being a game perfectionist and a 4X turtler, those games don't really suit me very well, though I enjoy them.

Anyway... I believe Blizzard is finally working on StarCraft II (FINALLY!)...

And, uh... Stardock, please make a new Canadian Political Machine, hehehe...

[kimmy]

It seems like lots of people like RTS.

My favorite are car racing games. My current favorite is Need for Speed: Carbon.

The addition of classic muscle-cars like the gorgeous 1969 Dodge Charger and the fearsome Plymouth Hemi Barracuda brings an exciting new element to the NFS series. You can now experience (in a virtual way) the sheer thrill that can only come from a 7-litre engine. Feel the sheer power, and take pride that you're single-mindedly putting Canada's Kyoto targets in jeopardy! I love this game. And as soon as I have the kind of job that'll permit me to drive a car that only gets 11 miles per gallon, I'm getting myself a classic Charger.

-k

[jefferiah]

Well, I am not a video game enthusiast. But as for the original topic, yeah that sounds like a pretty whacked game. I don't think it will have much popularity though either.

[kimmy]

Well, I am not a video game enthusiast. But as for the original topic, yeah that sounds like a pretty whacked game. I don't think it will have much popularity though either.

I whisked through a Best Buy and a Wal-Mart the other day, and noticed lots of copies of "Eternal Forces" were on the shelves at both places.

I guess this means that it's (a) widely available, and perhaps ( not exactly flying of the shelves. I guess we'll have to watch the discount bins in upcoming weeks and months to find out for sure.

I suspect that gaming enthusiasts have probably read reviews and heard the game just doesn't stack up, while sincere Christians as a group probably aren't wild about the idea of killing people, "In His name" or otherwise.

-k

[margrace]

Has anyone on here actually read this series? I have, as an adventure series, it it pretty good. But that is not what it is, it is pure propaganda for the fundamentalist and is pushed in all that type of churceh.

A lot of people own videos of the series and really believe the hate it pushes. Read the books and then decide on the game

[DarkAngel_]

The addition of classic muscle-cars like the gorgeous 1969 Dodge Charger and the fearsome Plymouth Hemi Barracuda brings an exciting new element to the NFS series.

oooooooooooh, ya.

but racing games to me are too basic, imagine a futuristic example of the game i stated before, at least in it's simple complexity, with the capablity of making your own designs and making them fly into space where they destroy the death star!

sorry my imagination is on "cheesy" tonight, i'll click it down by watching another unexiting episode of SG-1.

on a brighter note, when the hell did people become allergic to penuts?!

[sharkman]

Has anyone on here actually read this series? I have, as an adventure series, it it pretty good. But that is not what it is, it is pure propaganda for the fundamentalist and is pushed in all that type of churceh.

A lot of people own videos of the series and really believe the hate it pushes. Read the books and then decide on the game

I haven't seen the game but have seen a couple of DVDs in the series as well as reading 2 of the books. What hate do you speak of? The series tells a story of an end time scenario where the characters are trying to survive, and do not hate their oppressors.

[jefferiah]

I am not a big fan of Christian attempts to become more popular by using popular culture, video games, etc. I haven't read Left Behind, but I think Revelation in the Bible is pretty vague and I think there is a warning at the end about adding words to prophecy. If this was like a secualr movie using a Apocalyptic idea or something I wouldn't say anything about it. But I think Tim Lahaye is a Christian and this is sort of a Christian attempt at making a blockbuster fantasy flick and to teach people about the "rapture" (which is a word that is not used once in the Bible). And this video game sounds even more ridiculous. Incorporating violence into a Christian game to make it sell. This is selling out the ideals of the faith.

[Remiel]

I saw the first Left Behind movie before I really knew what it was. Propaganda and garbage would be a fairly accurate description in my opinion.