Re-newal of the Liberal Party

[betsy]

Right after the election, the disgraced Liberal Party had acknowledged that what really did them in was the issue of corruption, the culture of entitlement seen through various scandals that had erupted, the question of integrity. The division among them was also a concern, but it was nowhere as serious as the image the Liberal Party had presented to the people of Canada, after all it was corruption that lost them Quebec.

They made a big promise of re-building, of a massive work ahead of them and had sworn that they will go through a re-newal....bringing back a new Liberal Party.

Did I miss something when the candidates had all made their pitches last week-end?

Did anyone bring about any policy about accountability? Of ending the impression about their party's "culture of entitlement?" Of unquestionable integrity?

I think only Kennedy attempted to hint at that....and was met with stony silence from the audience.

The ensuing orchestrated photo ops before the hundreds of media cameras...and the well-spinned responses to questions...all showing this "unity" among them. But that's it. That's all they talk about now in front of the cameras...Unity! That this is the "new" Liberal Party.

What happened to integrity, and corruption, and culture of entitlement? Suddenly talks about them...poof!

And now I see Dion. And hear about his "father-son" or "Uncle-nephew" relationship with Chretien. His association with the Martin government.

And I thought about the $400 million dollars budget for the environment...that mysteriously disappeared into thin air.

Somehow I still have the odd feeling that I am still looking at the old Liberals. Nothing had really changed at all.

[uOttawaMan]

Nothing ever changes in politics.

[fellowtraveller]

Hard to disagree with anything yoy say here Betsy..

Everybody was yapping - CBC commentators front and center, they know where their bread is buttered- about 'renewal', moments after they elect the very guy who is the most old school, the most old style Liberal of the Final Four, the person with the most links to everything that got the Liberals booted in the last election.

Harper and crew must have partied hard last night......

[watching&waiting]

Betsy you should have titled this "The renewal of Jean Chretiens Liberal Party"

[stignasty]

What difference would it have made if they went on flogging the dead horse and made it "accountability weekend?" Would you have believed them? If they had I imagine there would be a "same old Liberal promises" thread instead of this one.

Of course, conservatives would have loved it if they had spent their television time putting a giant neon sign up that read "look how we screwed up!" You can't blame them for refusing to do so.

[Slavik44]

What difference would it have made if they went on flogging the dead horse and made it "accountability weekend?" Would you have believed them? If they had I imagine there would be a "same old Liberal promises" thread instead of this one.

Of course, conservatives would have loved it if they had spent their television time putting a giant neon sign up that read "look how we screwed up!" You can't blame them for refusing to do so.

Well it certainly shouldn't have been about highlighting where they went wrong. Instead it should have been changing where they went wrong and inserting new ideas and a new party. The liberals really didn't do that. I was personally disappointed because I wanted to see the emergence of a new Liberal party. Instead I just got the new old liberal party. I felt like for the most part I spent my time watching a conventiion of used car sales men and when it was all over they were trying to sell me the same car I brought in for an upgrade. I don't wan't Chretien, I don't want Martin. I wanted new ideas for the economic resurgence and environemental preservation of Canada. Instead I felt like I ended up getting old ideas of economic regression and evinromental promises. Hopefully that changes, but there was so much lost potential it was sad. Unfortunately recent polls seems to suggest Canadians may be willing to reward the same old, same old. I want something new. Unfortunately I don't see this from any party in particular.

[jdobbin]

Somehow I still have the odd feeling that I am still looking at the old Liberals. Nothing had really changed at all.

In get the same feeling when I see Michael Wilson and Brian Mulroney whispering in Harper's ear.

[gc1765]

Did I miss something when the candidates had all made their pitches last week-end?

Did anyone bring about any policy about accountability? Of ending the impression about their party's "culture of entitlement?" Of unquestionable integrity?

I think only Kennedy attempted to hint at that....and was met with stony silence from the audience.

What is more important to you, words or action? Would you be satisfied if Dion talked big about accountability but then did nothing about it. Or would you rather have a man of integrity as Prime Minister who will not be a part of the culture of entitlement, without making a big noise about how accountable he is?

[Canadian Blue]

It could have all turned out differently.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061202/...r_behind_scenes

Of all the sweaty palmed shakedowns, the not-so-secret pacts and the unseemly convention floor shoving matches, a whimsical decision late Friday by a half dozen or so of Gerard Kennedy's ex-officio delegates to throw their support to last-place contender Martha Hall Findlay on the first ballot turned out to be pivotal.

They felt confident Kennedy could spare a few votes and hoped they might be able to boost the lone female contender ahead of seventh-place Joe Volpe.

But those few votes made all the difference. Kennedy wound up slipping into fourth, just two votes behind Dion. The psychological impact of those paltry two votes on the 5,000 delegates turned out to be huge.

Dion was suddenly the guy with momentum, however slight, and Kennedy's campaign effectively stalled.

"You wonder how the momentum changes if Gerard had been in third rather than fourth place today," one Kennedy strategist mused shortly after Kennedy pulled out.

[geoffrey]

If I was interested in renewing the party, and improving things for the Liberals, I'd pick any of the 8 other than Dion. He was the only, the ONLY, old school candidate there. Maybe Brison, but not so much as Dion.

Very unfortuante for the Liberals.

But hey, that shows their commitment to change is lesser than their commitment to Quebec appeasement.

[jdobbin]

Liberal candidates meet with Dion.

Rae and Ignatieff will run for office.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/03/iggy-rae.html

[Argus]

Did I miss something when the candidates had all made their pitches last week-end?

Did anyone bring about any policy about accountability? Of ending the impression about their party's "culture of entitlement?" Of unquestionable integrity?

I think only Kennedy attempted to hint at that....and was met with stony silence from the audience.

What is more important to you, words or action? Would you be satisfied if Dion talked big about accountability but then did nothing about it.

You mean like how he talked big on the environment and did nothing about it?

I hope someone's looking after his dog. If Dion treats it the same way he treated the Kyoto accord it's named after he thinks his job stoped at signing the papers, and it's someone else's problem to walk and feed the thing.

If Kyoto the dog dies do we get to say Dion killed Kyoto twice?

[August1991]

In get the same feeling when I see Michael Wilson and Brian Mulroney whispering in Harper's ear.

Dobbhin, once again you divert attention from the question at hand. Is this how you write your screenplays or lead your life? By diverting attention?

Look, Michael Wilson and Brian Mulroney were out of power for 13 years. When Chretien's Liberals have been out of power for 13 years, then maybe your attempt to change the subject might be relevant. In the meantime, you are making an awkward move at a pre-wedding dinner.

Betsy raised a very good point. Kennedy was the only candidate who raised the obvious problem of a need to renew the federal Liberal Party - Trudeau Jnr even joinged Kennedy on the point. What did kennedy get for all this? Fourth Place.

The federal Liberals do not believe they did anything wrong. They are the party of power.

The people working at the CBC and other Liberal activists believe that all is back the way it was before this bad dream of Adscam and Paul Martin. Dion will talk about the environment and everything will be as it was before.

Listen to the CBC news. They'll gush.

[Saturn]

In get the same feeling when I see Michael Wilson and Brian Mulroney whispering in Harper's ear.

Dobbhin, once again you divert attention from the question at hand. Is this how you write your screenplays or lead your life? By diverting attention?

Look, Michael Wilson and Brian Mulroney were out of power for 13 years. When Chretien's Liberals have been out of power for 13 years, then maybe your attempt to change the subject might be relevant. In the meantime, you are making an awkward move at a pre-wedding dinner.

Betsy raised a very good point. Kennedy was the only candidate who raised the obvious problem of a need to renew the federal Liberal Party - Trudeau Jnr even joinged Kennedy on the point. What did kennedy get for all this? Fourth Place.

The federal Liberals do not believe they did anything wrong. They are the party of power.

The people working at the CBC and other Liberal activists believe that all is back the way it was before this bad dream of Adscam and Paul Martin. Dion will talk about the environment and everything will be as it was before.

Listen to the CBC news. They'll gush.

And who is going to get them elected? Harper will. Because he's turned out to be worse than many people imagined. They will have to vote for the Liberals just to get Harper's arrogant ass out of office. Dion will have Harper to thank for a liberal minority after the next election.

[normanchateau]

And who is going to get them elected? Harper will. Because he's turned out to be worse than many people imagined. They will have to vote for the Liberals just to get Harper's arrogant ass out of office. Dion will have Harper to thank for a liberal minority after the next election.

Harper blew it within weeks of getting elected when he gave an unelected Quebecer first a Senate seat then a Cabinet position. Then he offered the ineffective David Emerson a Cabinet position for switching parties. Garth Turner described it as it was but that resulted in CPC turfing him. Raising personal income taxes on those who earned the least on July 1st was yet another Harper bungle as was his broken promise on income trusts. But apparently he'll keep his promise to re-visit same sex marriage.

[abcon99]

The only way to renew the Liberal party to something decent, not that I would vote for it cause I'm Conservative, is to clean out all the old insiders, as well as getting rid of all the leftist interest groups. And since this is not going to happen, you fairly decent libs are screwed. For a number of reasons why, not including corruption and decay, check out the topic Will Dion be Prime Minister, and you can get my complete feelings on this subject.

[normanchateau]

T.....r.....o.....l.....l

[abcon99]

Normanchateau is giving us clear insight into his level of brain power with that response, are there any liberals or people on the left who disagree who can manage more than t.....r....o......l.......l.....

We will have to see, won't we.

[normanchateau]

See Forum Rules and Guidelines: No trolling.

[abcon99]

I believe I made strong arguement on people, if someone is ugly, speaks poorly, etc, in the public eye, i think its my right to recognize it. As for calling me troll and then with my response to that being asking for someone who actually wants to use some brain power, then saying see rules, just shows that you have nothing to add to arguement, as I can see from your responses to all my posts. And since I don't care about nit picking, I will no longer respond to you unless you make sense. So take that as if I respond, you have a brain, and if I don't, well form your own opinion.

[betsy]

What is more important to you, words or action? Would you be satisfied if Dion talked big about accountability but then did nothing about it. Or would you rather have a man of integrity as Prime Minister who will not be a part of the culture of entitlement, without making a big noise about how accountable he is?

Didn't they promise more before....and delivered what? So as far as their track records for "action"....you only see action prior to election time.

But by not saying anything about it suggests what? That nobody wants to take that bold step to make it a policy...because they know there's never going to be any change in that section? That it's a foregone conclusion...and in a sense, acceptance of the truth...that their party is prone to corruptions?

In other words it seems to say: "Corruptions and the Liberal Party come as a package. Here's what we are, the way it is, and ....take it or leave it."

I guess they figured they do not have to change their spots, thinking people would vote Liberals anyway just to get rid of Harper. Why do they have to make any more compromises?

[betsy]

Besides, do you really think there is finally UNITY?

That there are no bitter lines drawn...especially after that election?

How can you say there's unity.....if the driving force behind their decisions to stand behind Dion is based on one thing alone: ANYONE BUT IGNATIEFF!

Ignatieff showed true Prime Ministerial material by the graciousness he accepted that defeat...which in a way you could say his own party ganged up against him. All the old Liberal establishment endorsing and crowning their boy. Wow, major grudges had formed right then and there.

Boy, I'm glad Ignatieff did not win....or there'll be serious problem for harper come election time. He's got the charisma among the lot...and of all 8 candidates, he's the only one that got the chance of WINNABILITY against Harper. He would've delivered Quebec on the Liberal doorstep.

All that unity stuff was all for photo-ops. I bet it won't be long when we'll be hearing about backroom bickerings just like the good old days. Already, the media's been hinting about the "real reason" Kennedy made a deal with Dion...and why Volpe walked over to Rae.

[abcon99]

Any party that allows areas to get less seats than they deserve, while others get more than they deserve, shows they are anti-democratic, and most likely corrupt. Any majority party that doen't fix this ie (give ontario, alberta and bc more seats, and a whole bunch of other provinces less) shows me that the are corrupt. That makes the Liberals, and the Progressive conservatives corrupt. Only the Conservative party of Canada, the ndp, and the Bloc can claim otherwise at this point. They can say they haven't been a majority.

[betsy]

Any party that allows areas to get less seats than they deserve, while others get more than they deserve, shows they are anti-democratic, and most likely corrupt. Any majority party that doen't fix this ie (give ontario, alberta and bc more seats, and a whole bunch of other provinces less) shows me that the are corrupt. That makes the Liberals, and the Progressive conservatives corrupt. Only the Conservative party of Canada, the ndp, and the Bloc can claim otherwise at this point. They can say they haven't been a majority.

Yes, their method of electing a leader is not really democratic when you think about it. I bet Dion promised Kennedy the world!

The media suggested Ignatieff should promise Rae the moon and the stars at that moment when it was just between him and Dion.

[abcon99]

Yes, I meant the House of Commons division, but since both the libs and the old progcons. didn't have one member one vote elections, you are correct.