Networks Propose Charging Fees to Carry Their Signals

[jdobbin]

Great thread.

If the major networks want to charge the cable companies, I say go for it. This will mean every supplier on the cable path will be an identifiable charge.

The customer should have the right to pay for only the suppliers s/he wants, and reject undesirables. This could mean the end of bundling.

We can only hope.

And for the record, I am ready and willing to pay for the CBC; I am not ready and willing to pay for CTV and Global.

CBC might be worth saving. But the debate on its future shouldn't happen in a vacuum. All elements of broadcasting and production and Internet and new media and phone, cable and satellite has to be discussed as well.

We need a revolution in Canada. Cell phone bills could be dropped down to cheaper than the States rather than the industrialized world's most expensive if we open the doors.

We could get TV from all over the world one channel at a time from whatever company we want via Internet.

We could get phone service from Joe's phone company running off open bandwidth of terrestrial networks.

We could get Trailer Parks Boys directly to our cell phones.

It's time to think beyond what we have and to think about what we could get.

It doesn't have to be about destroying the nation but the bringing of choice, the opening up content and the dropping the price to everyone in Canada.

[Higgly]

I'm with you, but I think we should be able to chose the device.

I would like to put it al on my flat panel.

I think the idea of selling tv content like music albums is the way to go.

And by the way, Al Jazeera. Bring it on baby! O I know there is a lot of bullshit. But how is that different than CNN?

Fox. Don't even go there. Give me Al Jazeera. Ban Fox.

[jdobbin]

I'm with you, but I think we should be able to chose the device.

I would like to put it al on my flat panel.

I think the idea of selling tv content like music albums is the way to go.

And by the way, Al Jazeera. Bring it on baby! O I know there is a lot of bullshit. But how is that different than CNN?

Fox. Don't even go there. Give me Al Jazeera. Ban Fox.

Even France now as has English language news service that has a few hundred staff more than BBC World Service.

Imagine being able to buy one news channel at a time.

Pick Al Jazeera, BBC World and CBC.

Or FOX, NHK and France News.

The possisbilities are endless. If it is digital, if it is via the internet and if it is wireless, you should should be able to place it anywhere, anyplace, anytime.

This is the type of future that we could have available. Why don't we? Because the system is holding onto old technology, old ways of things and because they make money from being the old game in town.

[Renegade]

The only thing the government should be concerned about is safety in manufacturing and standards for fuel, etc.

That is why, outside of some broad guidelines such as limiting the incitement of violence, they should not control the content of any media, nor should they subsidize it.

If the governments gets out of that area, then I'd like roads to be privatized because why should we be subsidizing users of the road system?

You shouldn't, and as far as I know, you aren't subsidizing road system. Gas taxes and other "road" taxes collected outweigh what is spent on roads. But that is for another thread.

[jdobbin]

That is why, outside of some broad guidelines such as limiting the incitement of violence, they should not control the content of any media, nor should they subsidize it.

You shouldn't, and as far as I know, you aren't subsidizing road system. Gas taxes and other "road" taxes collected outweigh what is spent on roads. But that is for another thread.

Taxes in Canada subsidize road use over other forms of transportation.

I think government protection is as much a concern as regulation. In the case of TV, private broadcasters want the CBC cut or eliminated but want to continue to be protected from U.S. competition.

[August1991]

Cut it all. Lobby the government. Say no to CBC, no to Canadian ownership, no to Canadian cable and satellite, no the CRTC, no, no, no.

No one watches Canadian content. Certainly not in any numbers that it actually makes money.

Wow, dobbin. I had you pegged for an English-Canadian nationalist. I wuz wrong.

It is true that technology tends to reduce barriers between people (simply because people want to deal with one another and so that's where profitable research looks for new technologies). As you say, we're a few years away from digital TV by Internet and people are going to choose whatever they want. The CRTC will be obsolete.

Incidentally, I took a quick glance at the CRTC web site. It has about 410 FTEs (full time equivalent employees) which is growing at just under 5%/year. (I'm now suspicious about FTEs because managers know they're being watched.) The CRTC has a budget of around $45 million ($100,000/employee seems low). Of course, the CRTC claims that it generates revenue for the government through licenses and fees.

This is sad. First, the cost of the CRTC is all its arcane, arbitrary rules and regulations and then the loss to Canadians because they can't watch what they want. Second, the government has given at no cost the airwaves (wavelength) to the likes of CTV and TVA. They have/had a license to print money.

----

Dobbin, what do you think of Canadian music requirements for radio stations and the effect this has had on English-Canadian pop music?

[jdobbin]

]Wow, dobbin. I had you pegged for an English-Canadian nationalist. I wuz wrong.

It is true that technology tends to reduce barriers between people (simply because people want to deal with one another and so that's where profitable research looks for new technologies). As you say, we're a few years away from digital TV by Internet and people are going to choose whatever they want. The CRTC will be obsolete.

Incidentally, I took a quick glance at the CRTC web site. It has about 410 FTEs (full time equivalent employees) which is growing at just under 5%/year. (I'm now suspicious about FTEs because managers know they're being watched.) The CRTC has a budget of around $45 million ($100,000/employee seems low). Of course, the CRTC claims that it generates revenue for the government through licenses and fees.

This is sad. First, the cost of the CRTC is all its arcane, arbitrary rules and regulations and then the loss to Canadians because they can't watch what they want. Second, the government has given at no cost the airwaves (wavelength) to the likes of CTV and TVA. They have/had a license to print money.

----

Dobbin, what do you think of Canadian music requirements for radio stations and the effect this has had on English-Canadian pop music?

I think the rules helped Canadian acts get on the radio when there was a prejudice against Canadian music in the radio industry in the the 1960s. That isn't an idle statement. Bands like the Guess Who couldn't get on Canadian radio until they broke into the American market.

Now, the rules help established artists more than new artists. I think the restrictions could be dropped because radio is still going to play Bryan Adams and Shania Twain anyways.

There is an abundance of college radio out there that plays Canadian acts. There was very little in the college market in the 1960s and few stations in the 1970s. Now, some cities have multiple college stations.

There are a lot more radio stations out there in digital and terrestrial. Let them fight it out for market share and for format. I'd like to see even more low wattage stations approved as well. They are most likely to broadcast local material anyways.

In short, why have Canadian content rules for radio? Why have format restrictions? The only thing the government should do is collect revenue from leasing the bandwidth to stations. If there is a demand to create Canadian musical acts, it can go directly to the artists to help them record, tour and sale their material directly.

I agree that the stations have been given the license to broadcast for basically nothing except the promise to broadcast a certain amount of Canadian content (which they begrudgingly do). I say drop the Canadian content restrictions and up the charge for a TV license or radio. If there is a demand to help pay for Canadian production, give that money directly to producers of that material.

End Canadian ownership restrictions but at the same time approve even more stations to come to Canada from all over the world.

Let stations charge cable to broadcast their signals. But give cable the choice to keep a station or not. Allow Internet to compete with cable. Allow U.S. satellite service into Canada. Allow European service into Canada. Allow it all.

Let U.S. phone service operate in Canada in cells, local and VOIP.

Let it be a free for all. If the sole fear is that Canadian content is lost, use license fees to fund producers of music, TV and new media. The network or station that doesn't try to stand out from the crowd will be lost because if they all broadcast Friends, someone will lose.

[jdobbin]

I know that in English-Canada there is the issue of so-called "Canadian content" but maybe there are other ways to deal with that.

Did you have ideas on Canadian content or is not an issue for you?

[watching&waiting]

Canadian content rules are just a way for the lame producers to get recognition, but they will still be lame. If we are ever going to succed in the broadcasting we will have to face the competition head on and just become better then them.

[jdobbin]

Canadian content rules are just a way for the lame producers to get recognition, but they will still be lame. If we are ever going to succed in the broadcasting we will have to face the competition head on and just become better then them.

Or just admit that no one really wants Canadian content.

[geoffrey]

Canadian content rules are just a way for the lame producers to get recognition, but they will still be lame. If we are ever going to succed in the broadcasting we will have to face the competition head on and just become better then them.

Or just admit that no one really wants Canadian content.

It's not that they don't want Canadian content, it's just when you force an industry to produce beyond it's talent and resource pool, you get crap broadcasting. There aren't many good Canadian shows.

We should encourage Canadian film and TV, but not subsidize it to the point where we are paying people to make shows that otherwise would never have been bothered with.

[jdobbin]

It's not that they don't want Canadian content, it's just when you force an industry to produce beyond it's talent and resource pool, you get crap broadcasting. There aren't many good Canadian shows.

We should encourage Canadian film and TV, but not subsidize it to the point where we are paying people to make shows that otherwise would never have been bothered with.

There is no market for it. Left to its own end, there would be zero Canadian content in TV and film. We would have only non-Canadian programming.

And that's how people like it.

[abcon99]

Not going to happen, no way. To be honest, I can't really get worked up about this. I wouldn't like it if it happened, and I don't think it will, but if it does, oh well.

[jdobbin]

Not going to happen, no way. To be honest, I can't really get worked up about this. I wouldn't like it if it happened, and I don't think it will, but if it does, oh well.

It is already happening. Just walk down any street in your neighborhood and count the illegal DirectTV dishes. Canadians are opting out of all Canadian programming.

[Figleaf]

Personally, I'd like to see the regulator establish a simple market-based but externality capturing method. In each delivery framework allocate 10% of the pipe capacity to a 'public tier' funded by a set formula of income from the 'private tier'. Then,

A-Exclude the public tier from competing for advertising, and regulate it to provide whatever the regulator imagines is needed for public purposes; and

B-Don't regulate the private tier at all (except for necessary technical standards).

[Renegade]

Taxes in Canada subsidize road use over other forms of transportation.

Do you mean other taxes besides road taxes? Do you have any stats which show this, because I find it hard to believe.

I think government protection is as much a concern as regulation. In the case of TV, private broadcasters want the CBC cut or eliminated but want to continue to be protected from U.S. competition.

There should be no protection, neither for the CBC nor for private broadcasters.

[Technocrat]

This business of charging more for the same goddamn service will not stant. I can barely justify my cable bill as it is... if this actually goes through... ill be making my cancellation call to rogers. F-that noise. I would rather save my pennies and keep pumping them into my computer which can at least be interactive and a hellalot more innovative.

As to the Canadian content sux people:

Personally I love and watch alot of canadian content some of my fave canadian TV shows

*Trailor Park Boyz- someone claimed this show hasn't made money... that plain wrong.

*JonoVision* - Johnathan Torrence (J-Roc in TPB) used to have his own teen oriented show... it was freakin hilarious and was actually somewhat relavent to teens unlike the crap put out by muchmusic & MTV.

*The littlest Hobo* - Can you tell i used to watch alot of YTV?

*Reboot* (remember when an all CG show was cool?) yes it was the mid 90's - ps i was a youngin then

*Beachcombers* -- wholy freakin crap this show is still on Prime or something like that... wicked soo very very canadian

*The Newsroom* - well ahead of its time... same sort of humour as "the office" except IMHO way funnier

*This hour has 22 min* -- classic political satire it was way funnier with Rick Mercer

*Rickmercer Report* -- Funny worth the watch but it seems this hour was worth more then the sum of its parts

There are a tonne more canadian shows that I watch but these are just a few that come to mind. I would honestly love to have a system where you can order channels by themselves. In fact I would not mind to pay more for such a system. I really don't watch the major US networks as they really have hit a slump when it comes to innovative content. HBO being the exception(damn they make good content). I would probably watch more shows from down south if they were worth watching... but why in the hell would i waste my life watching Paris Hilton be retarted skank or Donald Trump try to fool the world that he isn't bald by wearing that dead squirrel on his head... There definitely is a demand for above retard programming... the problem is that retards are actually affected by advertising and therefor their shows get funded.

I spend far more time on youtube and watching micro content via the I-net then watching TV anymore.

The downfall of 'old media' is upon us.

[jdobbin]

This business of charging more for the same goddamn service will not stant. I can barely justify my cable bill as it is... if this actually goes through... ill be making my cancellation call to rogers. F-that noise. I would rather save my pennies and keep pumping them into my computer which can at least be interactive and a hellalot more innovative.

As to the Canadian content sux people:

Personally I love and watch alot of canadian content some of my fave canadian TV shows

*Trailor Park Boyz- someone claimed this show hasn't made money... that plain wrong.

*JonoVision* - Johnathan Torrence (J-Roc in TPB) used to have his own teen oriented show... it was freakin hilarious and was actually somewhat relavent to teens unlike the crap put out by muchmusic & MTV.

*The littlest Hobo* - Can you tell i used to watch alot of YTV?

*Reboot* (remember when an all CG show was cool?) yes it was the mid 90's - ps i was a youngin then

*Beachcombers* -- wholy freakin crap this show is still on Prime or something like that... wicked soo very very canadian

*The Newsroom* - well ahead of its time... same sort of humour as "the office" except IMHO way funnier

*This hour has 22 min* -- classic political satire it was way funnier with Rick Mercer

*Rickmercer Report* -- Funny worth the watch but it seems this hour was worth more then the sum of its parts

It's nice that you enjoy all these Canadians series. However, Trailer Park Boys licensing fees from Showcase does not pay for the series. It is funded in large part from Telefilm.

[jdobbin]

Do you mean other taxes besides road taxes? Do you have any stats which show this, because I find it hard to believe.

There should be no protection, neither for the CBC nor for private broadcasters.

I'm saying that road taxes themselves are a form of subsidy. The whole system could be privatized. Why not?

Canada only needs and wants U.S. or other broadcasters around the world. Thy don't need any Canadians ones.

[Remiel]

I think you undervalue how much Canadians want Canadian content, jdobbin. In an unregulated market, I do not believe it would cease to exist at all, even if there was less of it than there is now. It would become a niche market, perhaps. And niches do survive.

[Riverwind]

Canada only needs and wants U.S. or other broadcasters around the world. Thy don't need any Canadians ones.

WTF? What planet are you on? If Canada wants to continue to exist as a country it must have a media that produces Canadian stories. Unfortunately it is next to impossible to complete with the American behemoth to the south that can produce shows for a much larger market and then sell them in Canada for a fraction of the cost of producing a new Canadian show. We could have a discussion the best way to level the playing field for Canadian content producers (i.e. is CBC the best approach), however, it is insane to suggest that the gov't does not need to do anything.

[Charles Anthony]

If Canada wants to continue to exist as a country it must have a media that produces Canadian stories.

Citation??

Anyway, Canada does have a media that produces Canadian stories. The question is how much should the tax-payer fund?

Should the tax-payer fund more than they want? or should the government tell them they should want more?

Is this a way to define a nation?

Is the essense of nationhood like an ON-OFF swith or like a dimmer?

Is it an either-or situation or can we vary in degree?

Given that Canadians do not consume CanCon and state-supported entertainment exclusively, is Canada a nation now?

it is insane to suggest that the gov't does not need to do anything.

Actually, I think the real insanity lies in answering the question: Whatever happened to our jDobbin?!?!?

[is there some nasty political pole-reversal computer virus spreading??]

[Remiel]

I don't know, Charles Anthony, I just don't know. I mean, I have recently found myself arguing a limited issue on the same side as betsy. I mean, who would of thought that could ever happen? I feel like I am in control of my faculties though... the virus however, could be insidious...

[jdobbin]

WTF? What planet are you on? If Canada wants to continue to exist as a country it must have a media that produces Canadian stories. Unfortunately it is next to impossible to complete with the American behemoth to the south that can produce shows for a much larger market and then sell them in Canada for a fraction of the cost of producing a new Canadian show. We could have a discussion the best way to level the playing field for Canadian content producers (i.e. is CBC the best approach), however, it is insane to suggest that the gov't does not need to do anything.

I don't deny that most industrialized nations have their own cultural industries. However, Canada's cannot sustain itself in the market. And Canadians don't appear to be watching the programs made here in any number that would make then pay for themselves.

Many Canadians have opted out of the system altogether. They pirate their signals from the U.S.

As I've mentioned in this thread already is that the tinkering with the system has to stop. If there is a demand for the CBC and Canadian content, there has to be a debate about what kind of CBC the people want, how much they are willing to pay, what rules should be in place and how does it fit into the world market for media? So far Canada hasn't had that debate.

I'd say that the government has to be open to any and all talk on media and communications. I don't disagree with you that debate is necessary.

[jdobbin]

Citation??

Anyway, Canada does have a media that produces Canadian stories. The question is how much should the tax-payer fund?

Should the tax-payer fund more than they want? or should the government tell them they should want more?

Is this a way to define a nation?

Is the essense of nationhood like an ON-OFF swith or like a dimmer?

Is it an either-or situation or can we vary in degree?

Given that Canadians do not consume CanCon and state-supported entertainment exclusively, is Canada a nation now?

Canadians won't pay for any Canadian content except perhaps sports. I think if the market were left to its own ends, there would be no drama, no comedy, no documentaries and no national news. In fact, the market doesn't even warrant a Canadian network in an international market.

Many Canadians don't want any Canadian content whether it is private or public.