Elton John denounces organized religion

[Guest Warwick Green]

Well, considering that about 99% of us humans masturbate, I think it's pretty safe to say that it's genetic

Beyond genetics if we all do it. Like walking or talking.

[bradco]

"To me it also reveals the true agenda of the gay/lesbian proponents. If you cannot force your beliefs on the majority through flawed legislation and a liberal minded judiciary, why not ban the biggest opponents of the homosexual lifestyle, organized religions."

One could easily make arguments that organized religion does the same thing. They try to force their beliefs on others as well as ban, for example homosexuals, and treat them as second class citizens in an attempt to create their kind of world.

"Considering homosexualities links to genetics why is it not considered a disease? Genetic infertility is considered a disease and it has the same basic outcome as homosexuality."

Red hair is linked to genetics as well. Is having red hair a disease?

Does it really matter if its a choice or genetic?? If these people are happy with their lives and they arent hurting anyone who really cares.

I am against pretty much all organized religion but banning them is ridiculous and wrong. Banning religion is no more or less wrong then trying to ban homosexuality. Everyone deserves the same rights and freedoms to believe what they wish and live how they wish as long as their actions dont harm anyone.

[Wilber]

How is homosexuals wanting to ban religion different from religions who want to ban homosexuality?

[gc1765]

Beyond genetics if we all do it. Like walking or talking.

The ability to walk and talk is also genetic.

[Melanie_]

Probably not, but it seems that they're all gay. After all, they're not preying (no pun intended) on little girls.

Preying on children of either gender is pedophilia, regardless of the sexual orientation of the person doing it. If you try to link all gays to perverts who sexually abuse young boys you will have to extend the same logic the other way. Would you condemn all heterosexual men for the crimes of those who sexually abuse young girls?

[jbg]

I hate starting a new thread when so many exist about religion, but...

Don't feel bad. There's no rule against starting multiple threads about religion in the religion section of the forum.

I'm glad you sympathize with "three-peaters". 'Theloniusfleabag' is a piker at starting multiple threads compared with some other posters. At least he apologizes.

[jefferiah]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

Yes perverted and corrupted by atheist perverts infiltrating the church and masquerading as Christians. Elton John is a good example as to why him and his filth should be put back in the closet and the door locked.

UH.... Jimmy Baker, Pat Robertson, the lastest Meth using Gay preacher Haggard, how about the Catholic Priests who molested all those children. Were these people all athiests?

Wake up man you've been brainwashed.

Ever see the show Chris Angel Mind Freak?

He is a crazy illusionist who astounds peole in this day and age where science is widely taught. Keep that in mind.

Now most people/christians don't know that Jesus went to India during his "missing years". He learned mysticism form the Yogi's. It is actually in their texts. (read Paramahansa Yoganada) Now with his training in eastern mysticism, like the fabled climbing a rope that goes nowhere, imagine how he would have appeared to a bunch of uneducated, illiterate, scared and impoverished people. He would have appeard to have magical powers. Have you ever read the bible? Jesus himself says he is just a man, and that someday we will do as he does. I say Jesus was nothing more than a great illusionist, just like Chris Angel is.

Thats a theory. One I dont think there is much evidence for. That Jesus went to India. I am not saying its not true or impossible. But there is no reason to believe that because some guy was written about in Indian texts who in the minds of very few people bears a slight resemblance to Jesus that this is the same man. I think there is more evidence to suggest that a Jesus was prophesied in Hindu literature. But once again, not enough to say for sure. I am a Christian. I believe Jesus existed. But there are a great many people out there who dont find there is enough evidence to suggest that the man ever lived. Therefore it is quite another thing to say he went to India as if it were an established fact.

[jefferiah]

When talking about Christians everybody brings up Pat Robertson or Jimmy Swaggart. I think its getting a bit old now. I didnt even know who Pat Robertson was until I heard all this commotion about calling for a Chavez' assassination. Do you think everybody who is Christian worships these televangelist folks? Anyways I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. But I dont believe that this means you have to hate homosexuals either. People keep saying that Jesus was not religious. Well that may be. But I think people use this not-religious thing as a justification for anything. He still had a standard of right and wrong. And I firmly believe that he would not have condoned homosexuality. It is not a matter of singling out homosexuals. There are many sins in the Bible, and it says we all have committed at least one of them. So there is no reason for a heterosexual Christian to say, "Look at that horrible sinner. At least I am not like that." On the other hand there are many Christian who do this and who do not offer the same kind of mercy and understanding to homosexuals as they would other sinners. Rather they are mocking and mean. But I dont think most Christians are this way. I used to think so. But I think I was stereotyping alot of Christians before. If you (the reader) do not agree that homosexuals acts are sins, I cannot change that. But this is my view point. I do no hold this point of view as a personal attack on homosexuals. There is nothing religion can do to stop homosexuals. Religion just says there is a right sexuality and that homosexuality is not included in appropriate sexuality. If you do not agree with what it says, no one can stop you. But this is the position.

[Guest Warwick Green]

One could easily make arguments that organized religion does the same thing. They try to force their beliefs on others as well as ban, for example homosexuals, and treat them as second class citizens in an attempt to create their kind of world.

Don't many groups try to impose their views on others? Not just religion. Unions, environmentalists, business, feminists, etc? That's what a lobbyist does. Tries to get the changes made he wants. Religion perhaps is a bit more hard to take since they often claim that only through them can you find the way to the "truth". Therefore, the recent decline in religious influence is probably a welcome development.

[ft.niagara]

One could easily make arguments that organized religion does the same thing. They try to force their beliefs on others as well as ban, for example homosexuals, and treat them as second class citizens in an attempt to create their kind of world.

I think Jewish religion, and some others do not look for converts.

Christianity offers information, "the good news".

Neither force themselves on people.

Islim has used force I understand.

Homosexuality is considered taboo in all religions I know of, especially Islim.

As far as creating their own kind of world, at least there is no danger of homosexuals trying to create a homosexual world, because as a result the world would die out of humans at least.

[jbg]

I think Jewish religion, and some others do not look for converts.

You are quite correct. That was the subject of discussion in synagogue a few Saturdays ago.

[Guest Warwick Green]

Homosexuality is considered taboo in all religions I know of, especially Islim.

Religion is not the basis for determining public policy - thank god.

[Who's Doing What?]

I think Jewish religion, and some others do not look for converts.

You are quite correct. That was the subject of discussion in synagogue a few Saturdays ago.

It was a pretty good Seinfeld episode too.

[Who's Doing What?]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

Yes perverted and corrupted by atheist perverts infiltrating the church and masquerading as Christians. Elton John is a good example as to why him and his filth should be put back in the closet and the door locked.

UH.... Jimmy Baker, Pat Robertson, the lastest Meth using Gay preacher Haggard, how about the Catholic Priests who molested all those children. Were these people all athiests?

Wake up man you've been brainwashed.

Ever see the show Chris Angel Mind Freak?

He is a crazy illusionist who astounds peole in this day and age where science is widely taught. Keep that in mind.

Now most people/christians don't know that Jesus went to India during his "missing years". He learned mysticism form the Yogi's. It is actually in their texts. (read Paramahansa Yoganada) Now with his training in eastern mysticism, like the fabled climbing a rope that goes nowhere, imagine how he would have appeared to a bunch of uneducated, illiterate, scared and impoverished people. He would have appeard to have magical powers. Have you ever read the bible? Jesus himself says he is just a man, and that someday we will do as he does. I say Jesus was nothing more than a great illusionist, just like Chris Angel is.

Thats a theory. One I dont think there is much evidence for. That Jesus went to India. I am not saying its not true or impossible. But there is no reason to believe that because some guy was written about in Indian texts who in the minds of very few people bears a slight resemblance to Jesus that this is the same man. I think there is more evidence to suggest that a Jesus was prophesied in Hindu literature. But once again, not enough to say for sure. I am a Christian. I believe Jesus existed. But there are a great many people out there who dont find there is enough evidence to suggest that the man ever lived. Therefore it is quite another thing to say he went to India as if it were an established fact.

As I said go read Paramahansa Yoganada.

[Who's Doing What?]

When talking about Christians everybody brings up Pat Robertson or Jimmy Swaggart. I think its getting a bit old now. I didnt even know who Pat Robertson was until I heard all this commotion about calling for a Chavez' assassination. Do you think everybody who is Christian worships these televangelist folks? Anyways I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. But I dont believe that this means you have to hate homosexuals either. People keep saying that Jesus was not religious. Well that may be. But I think people use this not-religious thing as a justification for anything. He still had a standard of right and wrong. And I firmly believe that he would not have condoned homosexuality. It is not a matter of singling out homosexuals. There are many sins in the Bible, and it says we all have committed at least one of them. So there is no reason for a heterosexual Christian to say, "Look at that horrible sinner. At least I am not like that." On the other hand there are many Christian who do this and who do not offer the same kind of mercy and understanding to homosexuals as they would other sinners. Rather they are mocking and mean. But I dont think most Christians are this way. I used to think so. But I think I was stereotyping alot of Christians before. If you (the reader) do not agree that homosexuals acts are sins, I cannot change that. But this is my view point. I do no hold this point of view as a personal attack on homosexuals. There is nothing religion can do to stop homosexuals. Religion just says there is a right sexuality and that homosexuality is not included in appropriate sexuality. If you do not agree with what it says, no one can stop you. But this is the position.

Hey I posted a lot more corrupt/immoral preachers and priests than just those two.

[MightyAC]

How is homosexuals wanting to ban religion different from religions who want to ban homosexuality?

Great point.

[JerrySeinfeld]

How is homosexuals wanting to ban religion different from religions who want to ban homosexuality?

Great point.

Its just a continuation of the basic double standard long held by lefties.

[jefferiah]

Yogananda was not an historian. He was one of India's billions of mystical quacks. They are a dime a dozen over there. Televangelists times 100. Get a robe, grow your hair, talk soft like Maharishi and have a good understanding of "monism, kundalini, karma, etc" philosophy. Yogananda claimed he was William the Conqueror as well. Of these quacks I think perhaps the most brilliant minded were Jiddhu Krishnamurti and (not related) U.G. Krishnamurti. Not that I agree with them, but I think their intellects were quite spot on.

[Who's Doing What?]

Yogananda was not an historian. He was one of India's billions of mystical quacks. They are a dime a dozen over there. Televangelists times 100. Get a robe, grow your hair, talk soft like Maharishi and have a good understanding of "monism, kundalini, karma, etc" philosophy. Yogananda claimed he was William the Conqueror as well. Of these quacks I think perhaps the most brilliant minded were Jiddhu Krishnamurti and (not related) U.G. Krishnamurti. Not that I agree with them, but I think their intellects were quite spot on.

Fine, dismiss Yogananda as a crack-pot if you wish.

Nicolas Notovitch

[MightyAC]

How is homosexuals wanting to ban religion different from religions who want to ban homosexuality?

Great point.

Its just a continuation of the basic double standard long held by lefties.

How is it different and what is the double standard apparently held by lefties?

[jbg]

I think Jewish religion, and some others do not look for converts.

You are quite correct. That was the subject of discussion in synagogue a few Saturdays ago.

It was a pretty good Seinfeld episode too.

And your point in that pointless remark?

[gerryhatrick]

And your point in that pointless remark?

I'm sorry, but I had to ask. If you think it's pointless, why are you asking for a point?

[BubberMiley]

How is homosexuals wanting to ban religion different from religions who want to ban homosexuality?

Great point.

Not that I agree with it (even though I fall underJerrySeinfeld's oft-repeated, overly generalized term "lefty"), but the difference is simple. Some homosexuals might want to ban religion because it is generally comprised of organizations that plot to defame and discriminate against them. Homosexuals, on the contrary, do not by definition plot to defame religion. One actively promotes hatred against the other. That's the difference. (Again, I don't agree. I'm just stating the difference because Seinfeld often has problems with "nuance.")

[Who's Doing What?]

I think Jewish religion, and some others do not look for converts.

You are quite correct. That was the subject of discussion in synagogue a few Saturdays ago.

It was a pretty good Seinfeld episode too.

And your point in that pointless remark?

I like the Hats.

[MightyAC]

How is homosexuals wanting to ban religion different from religions who want to ban homosexuality?

Great point.

Not that I agree with it (even though I fall underJerrySeinfeld's oft-repeated, overly generalized term "lefty"), but the difference is simple. Some homosexuals might want to ban religion because it is generally comprised of organizations that plot to defame and discriminate against them. Homosexuals, on the contrary, do not by definition plot to defame religion. One actively promotes hatred against the other. That's the difference. (Again, I don't agree. I'm just stating the difference because Seinfeld often has problems with "nuance.")

So you're saying JS was trying to convey that religion actively promotes hatred against homosexuals?