Bye Bye Rummy?

[Black Dog]

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld stepped down as defense secretary on Wednesday, one day after congressional elections in which opposition to the war in Iraq contributed to heavy Republican party losses.

It's only about four years too late but, hey...

[Shakeyhands]

it is JUST a good start.

[Figleaf]

They're closing the barn door after the election horse has run.

They're closing the barn door after the Iraq horse has run.

[YellowDuck]

Keep in mind that the guy has offered his resignation at least twice in the past, but GWB refused to accept it. To the president, "loyalty" was more important than having the right guy in place when you are making decisions with the potential to get thousands of people killed.

Just one in a very long list of tragic misjudgements.

[southerncomfort]

It was a preemptive strike against the dems, less room for them to tie up business with endless Rummy bashing.

[Black Dog]

It was a preemptive strike against the dems, less room for them to tie up business with endless Rummy bashing.

If that's stickin' it to the Dems, I'd love to see more. How about dumping Cheney? That'll show 'em!

[Argus]

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld stepped down as defense secretary on Wednesday, one day after congressional elections in which opposition to the war in Iraq contributed to heavy Republican party losses.

It's only about four years too late but, hey...

I agree. The man has been an absolute disaster. When Bush was elected the suggestion was that it didn't really matter that he didn't know anything as there'd be "experts" around him. Rumsfeld certainly had the resumé but his arrogance and ignorance led him into the disastrous belief that even though he'd only served three years and never been in combat he knew more about how to fight and win battles than the generals did. I can't help wondering what the Iraq war would have been like if Colin Powell or Norman Schwarzkopf had been Secretary of Defence. Or would they have even gone into Iraq in the first place? When the pentagon war gamed Iraq out a few years before they actually went in they found they would have needed 400k men to do the job, and that even then there was a strong danger of getting bogged down in guerrila fighting. Rumsfeld dismissed that, and all the generals who said he needed more men, tried to do it with half as many, and almost wound up out of ammo twenty miles short of Baghdad. Then the lack of planning and lack of troops to protect key installations led to days of rampant looting, burning and killing, and set the stage for the fighting which followed.

[August1991]

The man has been an absolute disaster.

I disagree. But let me consider some basic facts.

Rumsfeld is 74 years old. He's well past retirement age.

I don't know if the US has had a post-war Secretary of Defence who stayed in for 8 years. McNamara didn't. Weinberger didn't.

Mark my words. The whacko, radical fringe of the Democratic Party is going to interpret this resignation (and the election) as a victory. It's not. This false interpretation will come back to haunt the Dems in 2008. It's Connecticut writ large.

Last point. Bush is going to have to get a new nominee through this hung Senate. That'll be fun to watch.

[Black Dog]

Mark my words. The whacko, radical fringe of the Democratic Party is going to interpret this resignation (and the election) as a victory. It's not. This false interpretation will come back to haunt the Dems in 2008. It's Connecticut writ large.

Man, you've really got that bone in your teeth. Or should I say strawman?

[jdobbin]

It was a preemptive strike against the dems, less room for them to tie up business with endless Rummy bashing.

Now the can concentrate where the blame really lies: George W. Bush.

[jdobbin]

The man has been an absolute disaster.

I disagree. But let me consider some basic facts.

Rumsfeld is 74 years old. He's well past retirement age.

I don't know if the US has had a post-war Secretary of Defence who stayed in for 8 years. McNamara didn't. Weinberger didn't.

Mark my words. The whacko, radical fringe of the Democratic Party is going to interpret this resignation (and the election) as a victory. It's not. This false interpretation will come back to haunt the Dems in 2008. It's Connecticut writ large.

Last point. Bush is going to have to get a new nominee through this hung Senate. That'll be fun to watch.

So Rumsfeld was a good Defence Secretary and had a good plan for Iraq?

The only reason he stepped down was that he was old and not because the election has handed the Republicans as loss?

What false impression? That the war has not been mismanaged? That Republicans didn't some serious financial and sexual scandals? That there has not been adequate checks on the Presidency when people brag that their voting record is 99% with that of the President's?

I know you support the Republicans but isn't calling a majority of Americans whacko for voting out some under performing Republicans a little harsh?

[BHS]

Mark my words. The whacko, radical fringe of the Democratic Party is going to interpret this resignation (and the election) as a victory. It's not. This false interpretation will come back to haunt the Dems in 2008. It's Connecticut writ large.

Man, you've really got that bone in your teeth. Or should I say strawman?

What are you talking about BD? Everyone, Dems and Repubs alike, are linking Rumsfeld's retirement to the election result, and the more liberal Dems in particular are calling both a "victory" vis-a-vis their long-held opposition to the Bush administration and to the war in Iraq. I think August's analysis is correct. As I've stated on other threads there are plenty of other reasons why the Republicans lost their majorities. Turning the next two years into a Bush witch hunt will be a satisfying excercise in revenge politics but it will ultimately hurt the Dems at the polls in future elections. (Not leastly because they won't be able to exact any sort of revenge that will satisfy the angry people currently howling for it, which makes the whole strategy a mandate-waster.)

[Black Dog]

What are you talking about BD? Everyone, Dems and Repubs alike, are linking Rumsfeld's retirement to the election result, and the more liberal Dems in particular are calling both a "victory" vis-a-vis their long-held opposition to the Bush administration and to the war in Iraq. I think August's analysis is correct.

Then why are you disagreeing with him by linking it to the election, which, according to August, had nuthin' to do with the war, while Rummie sretirement was tied to the fact that he's, well, old? Of course, I think it has plenty to do with the election and the election had plenty to do with the war.

And the strawman? That would be August's oft-cited but never seen "whacko, radical fringe of the Democratic Party."

[theloniusfleabag]

I have to agree with some of what both sides are saying here, and disagree with some of it.

Turning the next two years into a Bush witch hunt will be a satisfying excercise in revenge politics but it will ultimately hurt the Dems at the polls in future elections. (Not leastly because they won't be able to exact any sort of revenge that will satisfy the angry people currently howling for it, which makes the whole strategy a mandate-waster.)

BHS makes a good point, and moreso because this is the real reason Rummy is retiring...he just had his pecker cut off. I don't think he wanted to hang around two more years while impotent. It isn't in his character. Now the Dems are in a spot of trouble...

As to Argus' post, I don't believe Rumsfeld was meant to be considered a 'military man', because he is 'one of those'. You make the assumption that what you hear from the administration is the truth, that the US was simply trying to democratize Iraq, and oust an 'evil dictator'.

[BHS]

And the strawman? That would be August's oft-cited but never seen "whacko, radical fringe of the Democratic Party."

Oh, okay. I've been away, eh? That one slid past me. I wouldn't call them the fringe. I'd call them the majority, in that Nancy is a perfect example of the species. Perhaps "whacko" is an uncalled for perjorative. I can't support that kind of talk - I spend less time here these days but I'm not keen to be banned when the next culling occurs. (Like the Stargate Atlantis reference? Too much?)

[August1991]

I wouldn't call them the fringe. I'd call them the majority, in that Nancy is a perfect example of the species. Perhaps "whacko" is an uncalled for perjorative.

I thought of her too when BD asked about the usage.

A google search on pelosi whacko gives 36,700 hits so we're obviously not alone. She's from the Bay area and she's going to be House speaker, just like Tip.

When Bob Rae and the NDP were elected in Ontario, they really thought the people had chosen the NDP.

If the Dems are smart, cooler heads will prevail but after what happened to Lieberman, I doubt it.

[jdobbin]

A google search on pelosi whacko gives 36,700 hits so we're obviously not alone. She's from the Bay area and she's going to be House speaker, just like Tip.

George Bush and wacko gets 584,000 hits

[Riverwind]

A google search on pelosi whacko gives 36,700 hits so we're obviously not alone. She's from the Bay area and she's going to be House speaker, just like Tip.

ROTFL, a google search as proof of something? Come on. Try searching for 'miserable failure'

[Ricki Bobbi]

I don't know if the US has had a post-war Secretary of Defence who stayed in for 8 years. McNamara didn't. Weinberger didn't.

Last point. Bush is going to have to get a new nominee through this hung Senate. That'll be fun to watch.

Robert McNamara lasted a little over 7 years and the US was in Vietnam for the majority of the time he was in office. Counting Rumsfeld's time as SecDef for Ford and he might end up being the longest serving SecDef in history. Depends when Robert Gates is confirmed.

Bush will be able to get Gates' nomination through the Senate relatively easily. The Dems want to prove they can govern not just obstruct. Gates is a reasonable choice. Unless he takes a hardline on Iraq, which is doubtful, he'll probably sail through the nomination...

[Black Dog]

A google search on pelosi whacko gives 36,700 hits so we're obviously not alone. She's from the Bay area and she's going to be House speaker, just like Tip.

That has got to be the most idiotic thingI've ever seen on this board, and that's saying something. Im ena, Christ, "Bush+Hitler" gives us 3,560,000 hits, so geez, maybe folks are onto something.

Try again, mate. How's about this tme you articulate just who this "whacko, radical fringe of the Democratic Party" consits of and, more importantly, what whacko, radical positions they advocate.