Ricki Bobbi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Harper's foolish move on income trusts was foolish, Your biased attack on Harper was biased. wtf? Good contribution. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
hiti Posted November 5, 2006 Author Report Posted November 5, 2006 Which party will be the party of the oil companies? Businessmen are smart and take a long-term view. They realize the Liberals also would have done an about face on income trusts *if* they would have won. Not if John Dielwart, CEO of ARC Energy Trust and his 30+ CEO's of Calgary have anything to say about this. They are not all of a sudden going to hand over 31% of their earnings to Ottawa and keep quiet about this. They realize that the Liberals were going to lower corporate taxes and harmonize taxes on dividends and income trusts while allowing income trusts to continue. Harper lost his traction in Quebec as well. His biggest fan and fund raiser, Dean Ahern tore up his Tory membership card and promises that there are lots of people like him in Montreal and across the country who will make their voices heard at the polls. All these people have to be reminded of what the Libs were going to do regarding IT and the Con party is toast. Ahern wants Flaherty to take a 20% reduction in his salary which is what Ahern lost. People are reminded again that they are better off with a Liberal government. Quote "You cannot bring your Western standards to Afghanistan and expect them to work. This is a different society and a different culture." -Hamid Karzai, President of Afghanistan June 23/07
Figleaf Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Harper's foolish move on income trusts was foolish, Your biased attack on Harper was biased. wtf? Good contribution. You're just sour because your comments yesterday made you look like an imbecile. Quote
August1991 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Calgary doesn't matter much to Easterners, but it matters a whole lot when it comes to CPC support. All of their money, all of their business connections, come from here.With party finance laws, the Tories smartly rely on broad-based support across the country.That's not what it's about. Income trusts were the step to modernizing our economy, we've been set back in competitiveness on the international stage several years because of this decision.Income trusts were a scheme. We should just cut corporate taxes. The best chance to reform our tax suystem is if the Tories get a majority.---- I haven't seen anywhere the fact that Michael Sabia, CEO of Bell, is an ex-civil servant, Ottawa insider. It was Bell that forced the government's hand. What happened there? I think Harper is playing the game differently and that has ruffled the feathers of Canada's corporatist world. It's interesting that BCE shares have lost the most of all. Quote
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Harper lost his traction in Quebec as well. His biggest fan and fund raiser, Dean Ahern tore up his Tory membership card and promises that there are lots of people like him in Montreal and across the country who will make their voices heard at the polls. All these people have to be reminded of what the Libs were going to do regarding IT and the Con party is toast. Ahern wants Flaherty to take a 20% reduction in his salary which is what Ahern lost.People are reminded again that they are better off with a Liberal government. Please, this is not going to hurt in Quebec. One member does not a revold make. Good for Ahern, he has made such a great contribution to the country so far. He delivered so much for the Conservatives in Montreal in January... Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
August1991 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 The NEP didn't devastate Alberta. Alberta had a simple recession, not devastation. And it was brought on by macro-economic factors, not the NEP.The NEP made a bad situation worse. It was a bad solution in search of a problem. Quote
Argus Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 John Brussa, the architect of the first energy trust, says some Conservatives are tearing up party memberships in protest."This is akin to the NEP," said Brussa, a director of Progress Energy Trust, chairman of Penn West Energy Trust and partner with Burnet, Duckworth and Palmer in Calgary. Bullshit. It's nothing like the NEP, and aside from some people who were dumb enough to overstock in trusts, most Canadians don't give a crap. "It's a bunch of people in Ottawa making decisions that severely affect peoples' lives here," he said. It's YOUR people that YOU sent to Ottawa making decisions. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 That's not what it's about. Income trusts were the step to modernizing our economy, we've been set back in competitiveness on the international stage several years because of this decision. Forgive me my ignorance of income trusts, but how were they they key to modernizing your economy? Wasn't the whole point behind them that they paid everything out in dividents and so had little money left to tax? Or to expand with, or to invest? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Which party will be the party of the oil companies? Businessmen are smart and take a long-term view. They realize the Liberals also would have done an about face on income trusts *if* they would have won. Not if John Dielwart, CEO of ARC Energy Trust and his 30+ CEO's of Calgary have anything to say about this. They are not all of a sudden going to hand over 31% of their earnings to Ottawa and keep quiet about this. I have to. Why the hell shouldn't they? They realize that the Liberals were going to lower corporate taxes and harmonize taxes on dividends and income trusts while allowing income trusts to continue. Oh sure, they were. The Liberals were going to do a lot of things in the runup to the election. A few of them might even have gotten done - eventually. It's called "promise the suckers anything to get their votes". People are reminded again that they are better off with a Liberal government. Quebec advertising executives are, and lawyers who give free service to the Liberals, and other Liberal party insiders. No one else, though. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jdobbin Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 I don't think that some western businesses, especially in Alberta are going to let the income trust drop without a lot of bitterness and some lost support for the Tories. It might not be votes at first. Perhaps it will just be money. We'll see. The attitude of some eastern conservative types has been less the sympathetic to the sudden change. I know Albertans are tough but hearing easterners say "suck it up" must be infuriating. Quote
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 The NEP didn't devastate Alberta. Alberta had a simple recession, not devastation. And it was brought on by macro-economic factors, not the NEP. It was the worst economic downturn in Canada since the Great Depression. Alberta was the hardest hit province in the country due to the NEP. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Michael Hardner Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Argus I have to. Why the hell shouldn't they? Exactly. The previous post reveals an unabashed arrogance. The idea being that a company should tell the government how much tax it should pay. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Figleaf Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 The NEP didn't devastate Alberta. Alberta had a simple recession, not devastation. And it was brought on by macro-economic factors, not the NEP. It was the worst economic downturn in Canada since the Great Depression. Alberta was the hardest hit province in the country due to the NEP. No, Alberta was hit because the oil price collapsed. Quote
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 No, Alberta was hit because the oil price collapsed. And the problems cause by the oil price collapse were exacerbated by the NEP. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Riverwind Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 That's not what it's about. Income trusts were the step to modernizing our economy, we've been set back in competitiveness on the international stage several years because of this decision.Nothing stops the CPC from continuing to reduce taxes on corporations and trusts equally from this point forward. If we are going to change tax policies to enhance productivity it should be driven by sensible gov't policy decisions - not via a backdoor created by a tax loop hole. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
geoffrey Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 That's not what it's about. Income trusts were the step to modernizing our economy, we've been set back in competitiveness on the international stage several years because of this decision.Nothing stops the CPC from continuing to reduce taxes on corporations and trusts equally from this point forward. If we are going to change tax policies to enhance productivity it should be driven by sensible gov't policy decisions - not via a backdoor created by a tax loop hole. Ya, actually one thing does stop them. Public opinion. People don't like corporate tax cuts. It's their ignorance of reality really, but a dangerous ignorance that will leave us at our ridiculously high rates for some time to come. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
Riverwind Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Ya, actually one thing does stop them. Public opinion. People don't like corporate tax cuts.I agree that corporate tax cuts are a tough sell. That is why anyone invested in trusts should have known that changes were inevitable the day BCE announced its intentions. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
gerryhatrick Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Vote the bums out. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
jbg Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 I am going to give up my CPC membership at the end of the year, they have moved away from a fiscally responsibile right wing party to the typical tax and spend attitude we've seen in Ottawa. There is no justification to tax increases when your running a $13b surplus, ever. The NDP and the Liberals are more fiscally responsible? Isn't paying off the accumulated debt and saving interest payments down the road a good idea? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
geoffrey Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 The NDP and the Liberals are more fiscally responsible? Isn't paying off the accumulated debt and saving interest payments down the road a good idea? I've addressed this in a few other threads... and no, I don't believe paying down the debt is a fiscally responsible decision right now. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 I've addressed this in a few other threads... and no, I don't believe paying down the debt is a fiscally responsible decision right now. I know you have dealt with this before, but does the 'right now' mean that there are conditions under which you feel it woubl be appropriate to pay down the debt? Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
geoffrey Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 I've addressed this in a few other threads... and no, I don't believe paying down the debt is a fiscally responsible decision right now. I know you have dealt with this before, but does the 'right now' mean that there are conditions under which you feel it woubl be appropriate to pay down the debt? Yes, when most Canadians are debt free. The current personal debt load is unacceptable. It's mostly just a ideological standard, it'll never happen. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
gc1765 Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 The NDP and the Liberals are more fiscally responsible? Isn't paying off the accumulated debt and saving interest payments down the road a good idea? Yes, and it was the Liberals who started down that road. I am happy though that the Conservatives are (so far) continuing with that. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Yes, when most Canadians are debt free. The current personal debt load is unacceptable. It's mostly just a ideological standard, it'll never happen. Fair enough, at least you recognize what you are saying. I still see not paying off the debt as very Ayn Randian behaviour... Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
geoffrey Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Yes, when most Canadians are debt free. The current personal debt load is unacceptable. It's mostly just a ideological standard, it'll never happen. Fair enough, at least you recognize what you are saying. I still see not paying off the debt as very Ayn Randian behaviour... Is Ayn Rand inherently wrong or is there more to why my ideas are wrong? August is on a similar line of thought with debt repayment and he's far less individualist than I. Maybe it just makes sense and happens to be individualist? Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
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