We pay while Indians live in luxury

[charter.rights]

I agree with you to a degree in that statement.

Not all of them are dying though. Many times in the past I've mentioned that I work with some really great ones, have quite a few who are good friends and know others that I have great respect for.

These are my "token Native friends" (as another poster has claimed) the one thing they all have in common is a desire and the motivation required to better themselves and improve their lives. They don't sit around wallowing in self pity, they get out there and do what they have to do in order to improve their lives, and they are succesfull.

Those are the ones who aren't dying, they're embracing the future and moving into it instead of clinging to a dead past that no longer exists and actually can not exist any more.

Unfortunatelly they appear to be quite outnumbered by the ones who want to be paid "forever" and live in the past "forever".

None of the natives I deal with on a regular basis - and that includes most of the nations in southern Ontario - are living in the past. In fact they are moving forward despite the obstacles put forward under the Indian Act and government interference. The declaration of their sovereign jurisdiction over lands and resources is a legal argument that the government is afraid of. Their exercise of tax-free nationhood is a successful attempt at raising capital revenues on First Nation territories in order to invest in long term business. They are not dependent on government, nor do they accept welfare or charity as the status quo. Most of them have high 5 or 6 figure incomes and they reinvest in community infrastructure and businesses. They support their own social agencies and use their spare time to help those not so fortunate.

Everyone knows that many Korean immigrants have been buying up corner general stores and variety stores around the country. What may not be known is that they have a Korean Businessman's Association that lends immigrants the money to purchase the stores outright, in return for modest share in the profits. In turn the store owners through their contributions are reinvesting in the association making more capital accessible for more immigrants. Natives are doing the same thing...and perhaps even better.

Not only are there a number of native Capital Corporations, but there are First Nations owned banks, trust companies and credit unions springing up all over North America. Moneys collected are reinvested and the shareholders keep the profits. Mortgage money, capital lending money and business start up money is made available at better than prime rates to native people. They then reinvest in the companies and the community and are realizing fairly decent returns. Not only are First Nations populations growing (while Canadian population is slowing) but so are their economies - making them independent and somewhat isolated from the mainstream ups and downs caused by corporatist manipulation of market place. And as trusts and lands claims settlements are settled, money is reinvested and lands are used to house more off-territory native businesses. Economies on most First Nations in southern Ontario are thriving and the groups I am involved with are openly sharing their strategies, not only amongst each other, but with groups from the Maritimes, the Prairies and the West Coast. First Nations have North America wide associations that are helping build capital and educating each other on successful ventures.

So the point is that native communities and First Nations in general are getting stronger economically and politically - enough to assert the legal and sovereign rights they banned from doing until 1960. They are professional people with degrees from Harvard, Oxford and MIT and occupy all business sectors. They are building international trade relationships with other nations in the world. They are making political impacts all over the world (the recent passing of the United Nations Declaration on Indigenous Rights comes from aboriginal pressure for justice and equality around the world). These are not backward bush people. They are smart and politically astute modern business professionals changing the way the world works. Thats all.

Edited July 5, 2008 by charter.rights

[jbg]

And again... nothing can abrogate native rights - not even reasonable limits set out in Sect. 1, or those set out in law.

Practicalities can. I have, over and over, given examples of unimplemented USSCT rulings.

[Smallc]

And again... nothing can abrogate native rights - not even reasonable limits set out in Sect. 1, or those set out in law.

Uh, but they can if they don't make sense in a free and just society. I also Guarantee you that some day they will be, and they should be.

[charter.rights]

Uh, but they can if they don't make sense in a free and just society. I also Guarantee you that some day they will be, and they should be.

Until native rights are part of the fabric of the Canadian ethic and institution there will never be a free and just society. And that's why "nothing" will ever abrogate native rights. I also guarantee YOU that native rights (in fact no rights of any kind) will never be diminished. They will only be enhanced and clarified as applying to all of society in an equitable way.

[Smallc]

Until native rights are part of the fabric of the Canadian ethic and institution there will never be a free and just society. And that's why "nothing" will ever abrogate native rights. I also guarantee YOU that native rights (in fact no rights of any kind) will never be diminished. They will only be enhanced and clarified as applying to all of society in an equitable way.

Some day there will only be people in Canada, no matter where they came from and what colour their skin is. For that to happen, native rights must be the same as the rights of those of other people.

[AngusThermopyle]

I also guarantee YOU that native rights (in fact no rights of any kind) will never be diminished. They will only be enhanced and clarified as applying to all of society in an equitable way.

You guarantee that, wow, I'm impressed!

I can guarantee that you don't know what you're talking about. Already in various countries (some very close to us) we're see'ing basic rights being stripped from the population slowly and methodically. Yet you can guarantee the opposite?

Go back to listening to your toaster, it made a lot more sense than your vacuum cleaner does.

[gc1765]

Some day there will only be people in Canada, no matter where they came from and what colour their skin is. For that to happen, native rights must be the same as the rights of those of other people.

Does that mean that Natives will get full market value for all of the land that they lost, just like any caucasian would get for their land?

[charter.rights]

Some day there will only be people in Canada, no matter where they came from and what colour their skin is. For that to happen, native rights must be the same as the rights of those of other people.

Ah yes, I agree. But much to your chagrin it will not happen by diminishing one's rights. Rather it will be the Anglo-European White male who is stripped of his dominant power system in order to build a society that is based on equality and equity.

[charter.rights]

You guarantee that, wow, I'm impressed!

I can guarantee that you don't know what you're talking about. Already in various countries (some very close to us) we're see'ing basic rights being stripped from the population slowly and methodically. Yet you can guarantee the opposite?

Go back to listening to your toaster, it made a lot more sense than your vacuum cleaner does.

Perhaps you need to have a face to face with the end of your Beretta. Pull the trigger and see who wins.

[Smallc]

Does that mean that Natives will get full market value for all of the land that they lost, just like any caucasian would get for their land?

IT means that people will be treated equal under the law. Everyone pays income tax, everyone owns or rents their own lands, reserves are eliminated, natives become the responsibility of the province like all others, everyone buys licenses and is permitted to hunt in season only and not in provincial parks, etc. The past is the past, its time to move forward and quit dwelling on what happened a long time ago. Talk like that doesn't help matters.

[crybabykm]

The Canadians not long ago simply knew how to say, "Get over it! It's in the past!"

All of a sudden, the government decided to settle the score (on the Cath-licks behalf) with rez school survivors...which I RESPECT...I don't respect MOST Canadians who are YET to get what comes back around! You are in a PRIMATIVE stage of public schooling. Look at the USA? Their public schools are CURSED. Only the priviledged have their kids in private schools. Your "Christian" schools will be short lived...your children who attend will only live in such denial for so long.

Now we are breaking into more of that ugly old Canadian shell (called your heart) and Canadians can't stand the stink of their own hearts, they still simply know how to say, "Get over it! It's in the past!"

Match the offer that your Ancestors kept borrowing from indian Peter and paying indian Paul and pay off your debt.....I think you are afraid of YOUR own medicine! The last thing you want US to say is,

"GET OVER IT!!! IT'S IN THE PAST!!!"

But it won't rain all the time.....hang in there indians and the minority few Canadians who respect us!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyHevb1eOrk

The Canadians had decades on end to move so far ahead....yet you are STILL only a few paychecks ahead of us!!! Still the peasant! Why don't YOU get over your peasant mindframe, put THAT in the past, and deal with this present like a MAN or a WOMAN!!!! Canadian cowards!

[charter.rights]

IT means that people will be treated equal under the law. Everyone pays income tax, everyone owns or rents their own lands, reserves are eliminated, natives become the responsibility of the province like all others, everyone buys licenses and is permitted to hunt in season only and not in provincial parks, etc. The past is the past, its time to move forward and quit dwelling on what happened a long time ago. Talk like that doesn't help matters.

Canadians perhaps. But natives are NOT Canadians, unless they elect to be. And why would they elect to become like you....so bitter and resentful for all the things you stole. With a participatory democracy life the Iroquois Confederacy - unmatched anywhere in the world - if I was given the chance I would join them pronto. I know they will prevail because we are so adept at blindsiding ourselves with myths and re-creation of history. When one relies upon principles to peace power and righteousness, it isn't hard to see where the myths the majority of Canadians rely upon will quickly fail and where the democracy of the Confederacy will lead them, away from us.

Neither the government, business or people rule over the Iroquois. Perhaps you missed that in the mythical history lesson that led you to believe that the Iroquois were conquered, or had ever become Canadian.

[Smallc]

Canadians perhaps. But natives are NOT Canadians, unless they elect to be. And why would they elect to become like you....so bitter and resentful for all the things you stole. With a participatory democracy life the Iroquois Confederacy - unmatched anywhere in the world - if I was given the chance I would join them pronto. I know they will prevail because we are so adept at blindsiding ourselves with myths and re-creation of history. When one relies upon principles to peace power and righteousness, it isn't hard to see where the myths the majority of Canadians rely upon will quickly fail and where the democracy of the Confederacy will lead them, away from us.

Neither the government, business or people rule over the Iroquois. Perhaps you missed that in the mythical history lesson that led you to believe that the Iroquois were conquered, or had ever become Canadian.

Actually First Nations people are Canadian. They vote in elections and carry Canadian Passports to travel abroad. Only if they vote to leave are they not. I really don't care to hear your opinions of Canada. I love my country and I'm quite proud of it. People like you that want to destroy it should be ashamed. There is no place better than this. That said, there are a few issues that need to be solved. That includes making all people equal, something they are currently not. Like I said, if you really think that low of this beautiful and wonderful country, you should be ashamed. I will not debate this further as you are obviously of an incomprehensible and perhaps even reprehensible mindset.

[charter.rights]

Actually First Nations people are Canadian. They vote in elections and carry Canadian Passports to travel abroad. Only if they vote to leave are they not. I really don't care to hear your opinions of Canada. I love my country and I'm quite proud of it. People like you that want to destroy it should be ashamed. There is no place better than this. That said, there are a few issues that need to be solved. That includes making all people equal, something they are currently not. Like I said, if you really think that low of this beautiful and wonderful country, you should be ashamed. I will not debate this further as you are obviously of an incomprehensible and perhaps even reprehensible mindset.

Wot? Now I challenge your myths and you go and stick your head back in the sand? How typically Canadian.

Canada is a myth. It doesn't even exist legally as a nation. We are still a Crown corporation, nothing more.

And no. Most First Nations do not vote in Canadian elections, or participate in Canadian census. They are not Canadian AND there is a legal basis for their own independent sovereignty. Although I don't expect you to understand that since you obviously are scared of bogey men and ghosts.

Edited July 6, 2008 by charter.rights

[AngusThermopyle]

Perhaps you need to have a face to face with the end of your Beretta. Pull the trigger and see who wins.

Once again I have to thank you. Your response is so juvenile and mindless that it says more than I ever could. Typical of you actually, this is one reason why you are irrelevant and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Here's a tip, if you wish to be taken seriously you should actually cultivate a working mentality and say goodbye to lies.

Wot? Now I challenge your myths and you go and stick your head back in the sand? How typically Canadian.

You challenge no myths, you simply spout your own, rather simplistic and basic actually. You offer no proof, no facts, just your own opinion (ill founded at best).

By the way, I do not own or use a beretta, the .45 S&W is a far superior weapon that just feels better to fire. Once more you have simply illustrated your ignorance by way of your mouth, would you care to stick your foot in it once again.

Edited July 6, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[charter.rights]

Once again I have to thank you. Your response is so juvenile and mindless that it says more than I ever could. Typical of you actually, this is one reason why you are irrelevant and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Here's a tip, if you wish to be taken seriously you should actually cultivate a working mentality and say goodbye to lies.

You challenge no myths, you simply spout your own, rather simplistic and basic actually. You offer no proof, no facts, just your own opinion (ill founded at best).

By the way, I do not own or use a beretta, the .45 S&W is a far superior weapon that just feels better to fire. Once more you have simply illustrated your ignorance by way of your mouth, would you care to stick your foot in it once again.

Hey young boy if you want to trade juvenile insults we can go at this all day. However, you you pay attention that you started it in the first place and I was just returning my first volley.

Secondly I have provided ample proof all along. That you refuse to follow the links and read the proof is your stupidity, not mine. When you become man enough to participate in a decent discussion on the matter, then we can get further into it. But since your only tactic is to throw insults and invective, then that is all you will get in return.

[Smallc]

Wot? Now I challenge your myths and you go and stick your head back in the sand? How typically Canadian.

Canada is a myth. It doesn't even exist legally as a nation. We are still a Crown corporation, nothing more.

And no. Most First Nations do not vote in Canadian elections, or participate in Canadian census. They are not Canadian AND there is a legal basis for their own independent sovereignty. Although I don't expect you to understand that since you obviously are scared of bogey men and ghosts.

And I don't share your opinion of the greatest nation on Earth. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about so I have no desire to respond to you.

[AngusThermopyle]

Secondly I have provided ample proof all along.

Bullshit.

You have not provided one scrap of proof, as usual. You provided no links, no company names, no names of banks, etc. etc. All you do is make crap up and expect people to say "oh, how wise and irrefutable". There is no point to discussing anything with a pathological lier.

So I'm done with you, you have zero credibility and are simply too dense to realise it. Even when caught in a lie you simply disregard it and keep chugging right along with more of the same. You should consider professional help with your problem.

[g_bambino]

Until native rights are part of the fabric of the Canadian ethic and institution there will never be a free and just society. And that's why "nothing" will ever abrogate native rights. I also guarantee YOU that native rights (in fact no rights of any kind) will never be diminished. They will only be enhanced and clarified as applying to all of society in an equitable way.

But, the treaties set the FNs apart; they always have. I thought this was because the FNs wanted to be apart from the settlers. So, unless you tear up the treaties, how do you expect FNs to fall under the human rights of the Canadian state? The Royal Proclamation explicity placed FNs outside the government's sphere.

[g_bambino]

Ah yes, I agree. But much to your chagrin it will not happen by diminishing one's rights. Rather it will be the Anglo-European White male who is stripped of his dominant power system in order to build a society that is based on equality and equity.

Ugh, please. Take the power away from one group and it just goes to another. Someone will always be the less influential minority somewhere in this world.

[g_bambino]

Canada is a myth. It doesn't even exist legally as a nation. We are still a Crown corporation, nothing more.

All governments are corporations. Canada is not special in this regard.

They are not Canadian AND there is a legal basis for their own independent sovereignty.

They may not be Canadian citizens, but they are also not fully sovereign.

[AngusThermopyle]

They may not be Canadian citizens, but they are also not fully sovereign.

If they are not Canadian citizens then why do they vote?

[M.Dancer]

And no. Most First Nations do not vote in Canadian elections, or participate in Canadian census. .

I'm calling you on this. Please provide a citation for their non compliance. Mine will come from census canada.

It stands to reason they participate because thats how the government knows how much welfare dollars to put aside....

Edited July 9, 2008 by M.Dancer

[M.Dancer]

Perhaps you need to have a face to face with the end of your Beretta. Pull the trigger and see who wins.

Internet tough guy. What are you? 12 and still having wet dreams? Grow up.

[jbg]

Internet tough guy. What are you? 12 and still having wet dreams? Grow up.

Bang on!!!