Tories Stall Parliament

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/parliament_battle

Harper used to be in support of private members bills, especially when he was in opposition. He seems to have changed his mind in government. He calls the Liberals and opposition "anti-democratic" but it is the duty of the oppostion to introduce amendments to laws and the obligation of MPs to introduce private members bills on issues they think important.

The Conservatives have to sell their legislative agenda and if they feel that it can't be sold, call an election. But don't go blaming the process of Parliament.

[geoffrey]

That's awfully high and mighty from a party that pushed opposition days back weeks in order to perserve their government a few more weeks... then changing the schedule at odd times. Then ignoring an opposition bill outright... a democratically passed motion, completely ignored.

Being said, it's an issue. Harper needs to call an election ASAP. Let's elect a damned majority already, Liberal or CPC, I'm so sick of the partisanship.

[gerryhatrick]

I was amazed that they would filibuster a bill requiring the Kelona Accord be respected:

A Tory MP delivered a two-hour monologue on arcane parliamentary procedure to keep the committee from pushing ahead with a Liberal-sponsored bill that would force the government to respect the Kyoto climate-change accord.

They're digging themselves a hole on that one.

[geoffrey]

I was amazed that they would filibuster a bill requiring the Kelona Accord be respected:

A Tory MP delivered a two-hour monologue on arcane parliamentary procedure to keep the committee from pushing ahead with a Liberal-sponsored bill that would force the government to respect the Kyoto climate-change accord.

They're digging themselves a hole on that one.

Why, you prefer to extend the racist, ineffective policies of our previous Indian Affairs department?

I'm suprised a bunch of unelected Senators are holding up the Accountability Act... I know who I'd want in government, likely not the party that doesn't wish to pass the Accountability Act...

[gerryhatrick]

I'm suprised a bunch of unelected Senators are holding up the Accountability Act... I know who I'd want in government, likely not the party that doesn't wish to pass the Accountability Act...

Is that you Jim Baird? The reality of that is the accoutability act is flawed and the Senate is doing it's job. If you have evidence to the contrary (other than the ranting of Jim Baird) I'd like to see it.

[geoffrey]

I'm suprised a bunch of unelected Senators are holding up the Accountability Act... I know who I'd want in government, likely not the party that doesn't wish to pass the Accountability Act...

Is that you Jim Baird? The reality of that is the accoutability act is flawed and the Senate is doing it's job. If you have evidence to the contrary (other than the ranting of Jim Baird) I'd like to see it.

The Senate has no right to hold up a bill passed by the democratic voice of Canada.

[jdobbin]

That's awfully high and mighty from a party that pushed opposition days back weeks in order to perserve their government a few more weeks... then changing the schedule at odd times. Then ignoring an opposition bill outright... a democratically passed motion, completely ignored.

Being said, it's an issue. Harper needs to call an election ASAP. Let's elect a damned majority already, Liberal or CPC, I'm so sick of the partisanship.

I disagreed when Opposition days were held up. I think those days are an important part of governing, especially in a minority. I think Martin broke his own promise when he postponed those days. It is one of the reasons why the Liberals were thoroughly trounced in the election.

[jdobbin]

The Senate has no right to hold up a bill passed by the democratic voice of Canada.

Given our system of govenment, the Senate fulfills its role.

I personally think the Senate should be abolished. At one time, I thought a triple E Senate would be good but I don't see that ever coming to pass. I think the Senate should now go. It was eliminated from provincial legislatures so I don't think it would harm the Parliamentary system.

And elected Senate would probably bog things down even more.

[geoffrey]

That's awfully high and mighty from a party that pushed opposition days back weeks in order to perserve their government a few more weeks... then changing the schedule at odd times. Then ignoring an opposition bill outright... a democratically passed motion, completely ignored.

Being said, it's an issue. Harper needs to call an election ASAP. Let's elect a damned majority already, Liberal or CPC, I'm so sick of the partisanship.

I disagreed when Opposition days were held up. I think those days are an important part of governing, especially in a minority. I think Marin broke his own promise when he postponed those days. It is one of the reasons why the Liberals were thoroughly trounced in the election.

I agree, and I have the same issue with Harper's position on these bills. I think that since these bills oppose the policy of the government, and are likely to be passed, it's time to call an election.

[blueblood]

I like the part when they tried to gut the crime bill with allowing house arrests still, theres another shot in the foot ctv

[gerryhatrick]

I'm suprised a bunch of unelected Senators are holding up the Accountability Act... I know who I'd want in government, likely not the party that doesn't wish to pass the Accountability Act...

Is that you Jim Baird? The reality of that is the accoutability act is flawed and the Senate is doing it's job. If you have evidence to the contrary (other than the ranting of Jim Baird) I'd like to see it.

The Senate has no right to hold up a bill passed by the democratic voice of Canada.

The Senate was selected by the democratic voice of Canada to perform just this task.

There are problems with this bill. It's too bad some want to treat it as a partisan issue just to bash the Senate.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I agree, and I have the same issue with Harper's position on these bills. I think that since these bills oppose the policy of the government, and are likely to be passed, it's time to call an election.

Do the Canadian people really want a third election in less than three years?

The election will be this spring everybody knows that....

[geoffrey]

I agree, and I have the same issue with Harper's position on these bills. I think that since these bills oppose the policy of the government, and are likely to be passed, it's time to call an election.

Do the Canadian people really want a third election in less than three years?

The election will be this spring everybody knows that....

I could care less what the Canadian people want. Parliment is disfunctional right now... wasting all of our money. If no one is interested, good, less turnout will have a more interested, educated electorate.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I could care less what the Canadian people want.

That much is clear sir.

[Canadian Blue]

The Senate was selected by the democratic voice of Canada to perform just this task.

If you mean a PM who was only elected with 40% of the vote to stack the senate with members from his own party then yes it is the democratic voice of Canada. Even though 60% of Canadian's really don't get much of a say on the matter.

[August1991]

Dobbin, good thread.

"The behaviour of the Liberal party is arrogant and anti-democratic," Harper said. "That's really the problem. They haven't accepted the decision of the electorate."

Liberal Leader Bill Graham bridled at the accusation, noting that many of the amendments to the accountability act came from Tory senators.

"If the prime minister wants to find the problem with his legislative agenda has he tried to take a look in his own mirror?," Graham told the House of Commons.

"Will the prime minister drop his pre-electoral posturing and start acting like a party and a prime minister that acts for all Canadians?"

Posturing?

It is the opposition's job to oppose.

The Liberals are waiting to know their next leader. They are posturing.

Ordinary Liberal apparatchiks - the Jason Cherniaks - can smell power. It is once again within their grasp. The nomenklatura will soon get its regular monthly cheques.

Have no fear Dobbin. The Liberals will soon be back in power in Ottawa and all will go back to normal. This Harper interlude was just a strange, bad dream. Don't worry your little head. Go back to sleep and when you wake up, Harper will be gone.

[Ricki Bobbi]

If you mean a PM who was only elected with 40% of the vote to stack the senate with members from his own party then yes it is the democratic voice of Canada. Even though 60% of Canadian's really don't get much of a say on the matter.

...and there are still Senators who were selected by a Prime Minister who hasn't held office for more than 20 years!

[jdobbin]

Posturing?

It is the opposition's job to oppose.

The Liberals are waiting to know their next leader. They are posturing.

Ordinary Liberal apparatchiks - the Jason Cherniaks - can smell power. It is once again within their grasp. The nomenklatura will soon get its regular monthly cheques.

Have no fear Dobbin. The Liberals will soon be back in power in Ottawa and all will go back to normal. This Harper interlude was just a strange, bad dream. Don't worry your little head. Go back to sleep and when you wake up, Harper will be gone.

Of course this is a lot of posturing. However, the point that a lot of Senate amendments coming from Conservative Senators is a valid point.

And I support private members bills. I honestly think that there should be more attention to opposition days no matter who is in government. One of the reasons why the Liberals got into the position they were in is because the opposition was weak and the Liberals did everything they could to make it weaker. The sponsorship damage would have been far less if they had investigated earlier and dealt with it through parliamentary committees.

As far as Harper being an interlude, I have no idea. I graded him B+ in the first six months saying that I would have prefered an income tax cut than a GST cut. But he made a promise and fulfilled that aspect of it. I think I pointed out that I thought there was no way he could fulfill his waiting list promise. He should account for that promise as it was a major platform in the campaign.

And Afghanistan remains an issue that could fell any government in power in Canada whether Liberal or Conservative.

As far as the stalling tactics, I affirm again that is up to the government to sell its plans to Parliament. If the Conservatives feel they have lost the agenda because of amendments and private members bills, they could call an election to get the majority they think they need to break up the logjam.

[betsy]

Have no fear Dobbin. The Liberals will soon be back in power in Ottawa and all will go back to normal. This Harper interlude was just a strange, bad dream. Don't worry your little head. Go back to sleep and when you wake up, Harper will be gone.

And most probably they will be the majority too. If what we see on this board is the "pulse" of the other liberal-minded citizens....and so-called "centrists" are.

[MightyAC]

The calls for an election seem to be more common, but why do we need one?

MPs should represent their constituents by pushing for their issues in parliament. If a united opposition is able to pass a bill that the majority of Canadians want then democracy is served. I see no need to collapse the government because of it.

I think we may be too attached to a faulty electoral system. We have people calling for a majority, as if that would solve our problems. A majority is simply an elected dictatorship. What is so great about allowing a party to impose its wishes on all of Canada simply because they received 40% of the vote?

Our current system doesn't give us the government we actually vote for, half of the votes cast do not aid in providing any representation at all and many are forced to vote strategically in an attempt to make their vote count rather than for who they really support.

Rather than bitch about the current situation in Ottawa and then hope the next majority will act benevolently in the interest of the majority why not help fix the system? Of course there is debate over what fix means... senate, no senate, elected senate, PR, fixed terms, etc Anyway, I think it's time one of our leaders had the balls to deliver on the promise of electoral reform they made while in opposition. Both Mr. Harper and Mr. Chrétien liked the idea until they were in power.

I like the process that is going on in Ontario right now (I think the same process took place in BC as well). A citizen’s assembly of one person from every riding is educated on all the various systems of government and the pros and cons of each. They then first decide if our current first past the post systems needs to be changed. If they believe it does then they recommend a new one. The public is then educated on the new system and we vote on whether or not to adopt it during the next election.

[scribblet]

It is the opposition parties who are obstructing the legislative agenda, therefore it is those MPs who are failing us, the electorate.

Hopefully we'll have a spring election with a conservative majority then we can get some real law order,and accountability.

[cybercoma]

The Senate was selected by the democratic voice of Canada to perform just this task.

If you mean a PM who was only elected with 40% of the vote to stack the senate with members from his own party then yes it is the democratic voice of Canada. Even though 60% of Canadian's really don't get much of a say on the matter.

40% of Canadians voted, then whatever percentage of them voted for that party voted in that PM. I think it works out to somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10-15% of all Canadians actually vote for the governing party.

[jdobbin]

It is the opposition parties who are obstructing the legislative agenda, therefore it is those MPs who are failing us, the electorate.

Hopefully we'll have a spring election with a conservative majority then we can get some real law order,and accountability.

Is the legislative agenda really being delayed by the opposition? A lot of the amendments are happening from Conservatives in the Senate.

[jdobbin]

CP is running a then and now story on Harper.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061027/...l/harper_speech

[Topaz]

Harper and Baird keep saying the the Lib senate holding it up but there Cons too are and they should. This is a very serious and I've watched the committee asked important questions and they need to take it slow to get it right for ALL.