Calling The Federal Reserve

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind: You will not look at government documents or listen to congressmen ? It has to be on TV before you believe it ? Is this what you mean to say ?

Its been in major newspapers in Texas. I just forget their names. I think seeing and hearing congressmen talk about it and question North about it is more credible than TV. Gov documents are more credible than TV as well. There are some mainstream media clips in the videos I listed.

You shoul watch 911: Road To Tyranny. That movie is full of mainstream media showing that Oklahoma had to be an inside job. That was local TV station media showing bombs removed from inside. How come it wasn't on CNN ?

Whether or not you believe the 911 official story, you must admit that the 911 truth movement is huge. How much media coverage ? -given over 80 % of Americans think gov is lying and 40 % think 911 was perpetrated by gov. This is not insignificant. When Robert Bowman, Paul Craig Roberts & Morgan Reynolds and a pile of high level insiders and generals think 911 was an inside job you would think press coverage would be appropriate.

[Riverwind]

Riverwind: You will not look at government documents or listen to congressmen ? It has to be on TV before you believe it ? Is this what you mean to say ?

It means I don't treat everything I read and see on the internet as absolute truth. I know it is possible to fabricate some pretty damning 'evidence' by splicing out of context quotes from various sources. I don't have the time to chase down every story that someone posts on the internet to determine whether there is any merit to it - I depend on the news media to do that kind of legwork. Just like I depend on my mechanic to fix my car.

That said, I know the media won't necessarily report everything so I apply my plausibility filter to everything (the same filter that I use whenever someone offers me millions to assist in the laundering of money in Nigeria). The "FEMA Death Camps" story is so rediculously implausable that I am not going to waste my time disproving it. When I first heard about the 9/11 conspiracies I heard enough to think that there could be some merit so I did investigate in detail and came to the conclusion that the 9/11 conspiracy theories are a pile of doo doo.

Bottom line: if these facilities were really 'death camps' then the mainstream media would be talking about it.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

On the other hand I will get a nice little pension, not so little actually! At any rate I have 7 years left to go, and no intention of buying stocks or bonds.

I got some bad news for you: your pension plan probably holds a pile of Canadian gov't bonds. Without the 'financial system' and gov't debt you would have no pension.

I am not too worried about the company pension plan. It is 100% funded and has been in existence for over 100 years. It will pay a maximum benefit of $60,250.00 per year for employees with max contributions. Add the CPP and it totals 70 plus! Not bad for a dumb railroader eh!

[Riverwind]

I am not too worried about the company pension plan. It is 100% funded and has been in existence for over 100 years. It will pay a maximum benefit of $60,250.00 per year for employees with max contributions. Add the CPP and it totals 70 plus! Not bad for a dumb railroader eh!

Your pension is a excellent example of how the system does work for average people too. You can retire in comfort because there is financial system to back up your pension. Without that system the actuaries would not have been able to calculate exactly how much money was necessary to ensure that it is 100% funded. Furthermore, a big chunk of the pension holding are likely government of Canada bonds. In other words, you are directly benefiting from all that interest paid on gov't debt.

When we talk about gov't debt I think it is important to make a distinction between internal and external debt. All wealthy industrialized gov'ts owe most of the debt to their own citizens which means the interest payments go back into their economy. Most 3rd world nations owe the money to foreign bond holders which means all of the interest is sucked out of the economy. That is why I think foreign debt should be avoided at all costs.

[August1991]

When we talk about gov't debt I think it is important to make a distinction between internal and external debt. All wealthy industrialized gov'ts owe most of the debt to their own citizens which means the interest payments go back into their economy. Most 3rd world nations owe the money to foreign bond holders which means all of the interest is sucked out of the economy. That is why I think foreign debt should be avoided at all costs.

Would you say the same if all the government bonds were held in Ontario and not Alberta? Why do you put so much emphasis on one border but not another? Do you mean to say that we should only borrow from other family members so that "the interest payments", as you say, "go back into" the family?

By your logic Riverview, no one would trade or borrow or lend outside their family.

The Canadian government should borrow from whoever around the world is willing to lend on the most advantageous terms.

[Riverwind]

Would you say the same if all the government bonds were held in Ontario and not Alberta? Why do you put so much emphasis on one border but not another? Do you mean to say that we should only borrow from other family members so that "the interest payments", as you say, "go back into" the family?

If the interest payments are in Canadian dollars then they go back into the economy no matter who the holder is. They could be converted to another currency but that is a seperation transaction that even Canadian bond holders might do. I guess what I mean by foreign debt is any debt that is not denominated in Canadian dollars.

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:Bottom line: if these facilities were really 'death camps' then the mainstream media would be talking about it.

What if the media and the camps are owned by the same company ? Lots of people are reporting about the death camps

What about the war in Haiti - why the silence ? What about the North American Union ?

So many other parallels to NAZI Germany around us, why not death camps ? Everything else is happening as it did in the 30's with Germany.

Examples:

Concentration of Ownership of Companies

Tight gov control of press

Illegal Wars

Governance by secret societies

Torture

Removal of Rights

State sponsored racism

[PolyNewbie]

Here is a great site to get all the info straight about the Federal Reserve:

Banking History

[PolyNewbie]

Riverwind:

Under the cover of a trumped-up "immigration emergency" and the frenzied militarization of the southern border, detention camps are being constructed right under our noses, camps designed for anyone who resists the foreign and domestic agenda of the Bush administration.

Thats right off of GlobalResearch.ca. That is a reference site for most people that object to what is happening.

As far as not believing 911 was an inside job, I wish someone could produce some evidence that Bin Laden did it. There isn't -none. Thats why Philip Zelikow, a master of deception (see his wiki decription) was hired to do the commission report.

[PolyNewbie]

This video Goals Of The Banker Foundations - Education/Monopoly explains the central banker / corporate elite agenda for the USA. Its an interview between Norman Dodd and Edward Griffin. Its dry put puts things into perspective.

If you can handle this then see Robert Gaylon Ross -> search Google Video.

With videos like this its certainly easy to see why the Builderbergs want to shut down a lot of the internet in favour or Internet 2.

[Topaz]

Everything you read is true, I heard another guy talk about the rip off of the US bank. I also, suggest that you research the company Carlyle Group. Its a very private investment company with equities of 44 BIL and growing. Check out whose a member, what they invest in, by the way, if you can think of a company, they probably own it ALL over the world. BY doing this, they will control the economics of the world. You will notice in your research, that most are former govt heads like, presidents, prime ministers etc. with more from the US like Bush41, people who worked under his government, former PM Majors etc. They don't like being in the spot light and so, Bush retired from the board but still is a member.

[Charles Anthony]

On special request from

The Greatest Crisis In Modern History -- Lyndon Larouche thread.

explain the advantages of private bankers printing our currency for nothing and lending it to us at face value rather than having government print debt free currency that is simply earned into the economy by government employees & programs.

I never said that. I will continue to address your "government printing money to pay debt" position but I am not interested in any F.E.M.A. concentration camps diversions.

My attitude on banking is very simple because I am not interested in stealing from Peter to give to Paul.

Despite submission to a coersive government:

1) I believe private banks should be allowed to issue any currency their own currency.

reason: freedom

2) I believe that the government can issue its own currency.

same reason: freedom

3) Governments should not require people to use any particular currency.

surprise, surprise: freedom

4) Governments "printing" money as you put it to pay debts is irresponsible

reason: paying off government debts that way does not add value to the economy, thus, it leads to inflation and redistribution of wealth.

My bank increases my credit to $200,000 and I spend more from this line of credit. The real money supply has increased and the central bank could not stop us.

In that sense you are right but suppose the banks raised the interest to a point where the payments could not be made. You would lose your house.

That is ridiculous.

The banks are not in the real estate trading market. They are in the money market.

I can not over-emphasize this: they make money from your interest payments.

They do not want you to lose your house. When that happens, there is TOO much uncertainty.

If that is your thinking, would you not expect banks to give out mortgages to everybody with the intention of re-possessing the houses soon after?? Every mortgage application should get accepted!!

What does your conspiracy theory say to that??

This attitude is a severe problem:

Regulation of currency requires that it be done to regulate the economy. They regulate the economy to maximize control of it.

My example proved that NOBODY can regulate an economy.

When private wealth becomes accessive, they cause recessions and claw back that wealth through repossesions of property.

What does that ("private wealth becomes accessive") mean??

[Canadian Blue]

Honestly the media in any of the western world would pick up on it. If we lived in a fascist regime why would we allow DOAP, and many other films critical of the government. People still have freedom of speech, including the most paranoid of society such as yourself.

Give us some real evidence, that video proves nothing.

Thats no concentration camp, if that was US Military property I can garauntee you MP's would be on guard constantly. When I went to Fort Drum their is security at each and every gate, and MP's constantly on patrol.

I like the part with the "black CIA style helicopter" that apparently isn't doing anything about the trespassers on US Government property.

Dude, get your news from a source other then YouTube!!!

[PolyNewbie]

Honestly the media in any of the western world would pick up on it

Really ? Like the American Union ? What makes you think this corporate media has any obligation to you ?

Questions have been asked about the FEMA camps mentioned by Oliver North in the Iran Contra Affair, many Americans are asking about these, what is mainstream media saying ?

What do you consider a reliable news source ?

[PolyNewbie]

Charles Anthony: What does that ("private wealth becomes accessive") mean??

When non banker wealth becomes accessive they cause a recession to roll back the wealth into their control.

[PolyNewbie]

1) I believe private banks should be allowed to issue any currency their own currency.

reason: freedom

2) I believe that the government can issue its own currency.

same reason: freedom

3) Governments should not require people to use any particular currency.

surprise, surprise: freedom

4) Governments "printing" money as you put it to pay debts is irresponsible

reason: paying off government debts that way does not add value to the economy, thus, it leads to inflation and redistribution of wealth.

What kind of freedom are you in favour of ? - Corporate freedom, Government freedom or Individual freedom ? These are all contradictory.

Do you know what happened when banks were allowed to produce their own currencies ?

Governments don't print currency to pay of debts. They print currency so that we don't have debt ? Why should we have to borrow fiat currency from private bankers at face value to pay for gov services when we can print it ourselves ?

How is it that 30% of your income tax that is used to pay interest on privately printed fiat currencies is benefitting you ?

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you ? What books have you read about the economy ? Have you taken any courses in economics ?

[Charles Anthony]

What kind of freedom are you in favour of ? - Corporate freedom, Government freedom or Individual freedom ? These are all contradictory.

Individual freedom.

However, it is possible to have a coercive government without a central bank -- the way things were in the past.

Similarly, it is possible to have a coercive government without a central library.

With respect to corporations, governments attribute protection to corporate entities which do not exist for individuals -- that is not fair.

Do you know what happened when banks were allowed to produce their own currencies ?

Yes, the economy was less stable. I do not care.

Governments don't print currency to pay of debts. They print currency so that we don't have debt ? Why should we have to borrow fiat currency from private bankers at face value to pay for gov services when we can print it ourselves ?

You have it backwards. Central banks issue fiat currency.

A private bank would issue a currency backed by something real.

How is it that 30% of your income tax that is used to pay interest on privately printed fiat currencies is benefitting you ?

What are you talking about?? Privately printed fiat currencies?? Please name one and explain why anybody would freely use it.

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you ?

Correct.

What books have you read about the economy ?

I can not remember.

Have you taken any courses in economics ?

Yes but I missed the one that covered privately printed fiat currencies.

When non banker wealth becomes accessive they cause a recession to roll back the wealth into their control.

Do you mean excessive?

If that is what you mean, you are seriously wrong to think that any agent has that much control. Furthermore, if they did have that much control, it would still be foolish for them to do that.

You are confusing the power of monetary policy. The only monetary policies that can make a swing in the economy are extreme ones: inflationary flooding or deflationary restriction. Both of which are unstable and unpredictable.

[Canadian Blue]

What do I consider mainstream media, professionals who do reports with more then just a handheld camcorder and actually show their faces when they do news reports. The newsmedia rarely reports any of these conspiracy theories because they are based out of paranoia. Not to mention the large segment of anti-semitic conspiracies out there. Why would any journalist want to contribute to an increase in hate crimes due to some idiots paranoia.

[PolyNewbie]

What do I consider mainstream media, professionals who do reports with more then just a handheld camcorder and actually show their faces when they do news reports. The newsmedia rarely reports any of these conspiracy theories because they are based out of paranoia. Not to mention the large segment of anti-semitic conspiracies out there. Why would any journalist want to contribute to an increase in hate crimes due to some idiots paranoia.

Reliable information always has a name associated with it. The ones I listen to show their faces and their names.

The main 911 debunker site, 911Myths.com does not associate a name or face with any of their work. Their have been people try to discredit Hoffman on his 911 work but they will not put their names on their work either.

There is a lot of garbage out there and you have to decipher it but a lot of the mainstream media is owned by the same corps that own the weapons makers. Will they speak against the war ? - not if they want to keep their jobs. Who is the cheif war supporter - Republicans. They will not speak against them either.

War is about money and thats even in Platos Republic.

Conspiracy theories are not based on paranoia, they are based on facts and past history of the perpetrators - think about Iran/Contra,Shah Of Iran, who put Saddam Hussein in power, Pol Pot ? Oklahoma Bombing, the bombing of Japan with Nukes. John F Kennedy was a big conspiracy theorist, so are many other ex high ranking members of gov. Read some of Paul Craig Roberts, Robert Bowman - see who they are on wikipedia. JFK is on YouTube talking about the secret government in a 10 minute speech.

The historical norm is that kings operate against their people to enhance their power. One must always be suspicious of power, no matter who has it. The power now owns the media.

You have a responsibility as a voter to know the truth, particularly whyen our gov is killing possibly innocent people. Who are the "insurgents" ? Why are they called "insurgents"? Is it believable that people from other countries would go to Iraq to fight and die ?

[PolyNewbie]

Charles Anthony:What are you talking about?? Privately printed fiat currencies?? Please name one and explain why anybody would freely use it.

The Federal Reserve bank of the USA is a privately owned bank. They would use those currencies because the laws state that they must be used to pay taxes.

[PolyNewbie]

Charles Anthony, watch http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1339460790371560078 then you will understand the macro operation of banks.

Then buy Fantopia by James Gibb Stuart - its 60 odd pages/ large type and is easily read by anyone.

More banking particulars are in "Money As Debt" a cartoon but very well explains current banking operations. You have to buy this video.

You cannot understand anything about this world without knowing how a dollar comes into existance. Its like knowing about how to have sex without knowing how babies are made.

[White Doors]

Charles Anthony, watch http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1339460790371560078 then you will understand the macro operation of banks.

Then buy Fantopia by James Gibb Stuart - its 60 odd pages/ large type and is easily read by anyone.

More banking particulars are in "Money As Debt" a cartoon but very well explains current banking operations. You have to buy this video.

You cannot understand anything about this world without knowing how a dollar comes into existance. Its like knowing about how to have sex without knowing how babies are made.

Wow. Craziest rant I have seen on the internet in a long time. thanks!

An economics 101 course would be all that was needed to quash this kindergarten argument.

Except the FEMA death camps though! that's compelling stuff! LOL

[PolyNewbie]

White Doors: An economics 101 course would be all that was needed to quash this kindergarten argument.

Really ? Lets hear it !!

This movie is available free on Google. Read the comments about what some people say who studied economics wrt this movie. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3286459385978771924

I agree with it and i have had a few courses in economics + read a few books about it on my own.

I really want to call you on this bluff. Can you be called on this ?

[White Doors]

White Doors: An economics 101 course would be all that was needed to quash this kindergarten argument.

Really ? Lets hear it !!

This movie is available free on Google. Read the comments about what some people say who studied economics wrt this movie. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3286459385978771924

I agree with it and i have had a few courses in economics + read a few books about it on my own.

I really want to call you on this bluff. Can you be called on this ?

It is obvious you have very little clue about economincs. Banks don't make money from the money they print, they make money from the difference in the interest rates they pay out to savers and the rate they charge to lenders. They cannot just simply keep printing money and that's it.

[Charles Anthony]

I really want to call you on this bluff. Can you be called on this ?

I watched your whole video -- all 42 minutes of it -- and I agree with most of it. It tells me nothing new but you have things confused when you attack private banks for just printing money.

I will cut to the chase: What power do you want the government to have with respect to banking? why?

Do you believe the government should tax individuals?

Do you believe the government should regulate the economy?

Do you believe the government should stabilize the economy?

Do you believe the government should redistribute wealth?

These questions are important because some people defend central/fiat/fractional/reserve banking for the same reasons the video opposes. Unless you can answer the above questions, I have no idea what you want and why you are attacking the Federal Reserve.