Closer Anglosphere Alignment needed

[jbg]

My view, which should surprise no one, is that Canada, the US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Israel should be closely aligned. The world today is being shaped into two conflicting civilizations. This has been happening minimally for decades, but more probably for centuries, and has now become most evident since September 11, 2001. One civilization, led by Judeo-Christian ethics, values life. Individual rights and freedoms, equality of the sexes, and peace amongst nations are pillars upon which this half of the world stands.

The other civilization holds very different ideals: the glorification of death and war, totalitarian control of the masses, and oppression of women. The latter civilization sees the former as a direct threat to its way of life and is willing to sacrifice its own children to destroy the other. This clash of civilizations is being fought on many fronts, including the battlefield. But for most of us non-soldier-types, the war is being fought in the recesses of our own conscience.

Many world leaders, like President Bush and Prime Minister Blair and Harper, have identified this clearly as a fight against evil. But there are others, many of whom are influential in the media, who don't believe that the values of the Western world are "objectively good." Reuters news service refused to call the September 11 attacks "terrorism," finding that even too much of a moral stretch.

This clash calls upon us all to must make a clear choice. Are we confident in our own values and morals? Do we know that they are objectively good and thus worth defending and fighting for?

I have often wondered why many Canadians lack the self-confidence in its own democratic values to stand up for them. A review of these threads reveals almost a self-hatred, though, through the aegis of anti-American sentiment, particularly on such issues as Iraq and the Middle East. It is time for Canada to stand up for its own, core values.

[Charles Anthony]

One civilization, led by Judeo-Christian ethics, values life. Individual rights and freedoms, equality of the sexes, and peace amongst nations are pillars upon which this half of the world stands.

The other civilization holds very different ideals: the glorification of death and war, totalitarian control of the masses,

--- and on what side of your fence should the new anti-habeas corpus put America?

I think you would have better luck explaining past and present warfare by looking at competing commercial interests instead of moral ideals.

[jbg]

One civilization, led by Judeo-Christian ethics, values life. Individual rights and freedoms, equality of the sexes, and peace amongst nations are pillars upon which this half of the world stands.

The other civilization holds very different ideals: the glorification of death and war, totalitarian control of the masses,

--- and on what side of your fence should the new anti-habeas corpus put America?

I think you would have better luck explaining past and present warfare by looking at competing commercial interests instead of moral ideals.

Wanting to protect ourselves from those who use our openness to destroy us.

[Charles Anthony]

Your own sheepish naivety and wanton disrespect for freedom will destroy you a lot faster than anything else. You will implode.

[Leafless]

I have often wondered why many Canadians lack the self-confidence in its own democratic values to stand up for them. A review of these threads reveals almost a self-hatred, though, through the aegis of anti-American sentiment, particularly on such issues as Iraq and the Middle East. It is time for Canada to stand up for its own, core values.

Our core values have been detrimentally been altered with the advent of 'Charter rights and Freedoms' something I believe that never should have been tolerated by the English speaking, Christian majority.

I think this will be a tough hurdle now in this country to return to core values legally, although core values technically speaking, are still a reality to the majority.

I think your correct concerning your overall assessment and of course Western forces and allies are acutely aware concerning your thoughts and are desperately trying to prevent albeit temporally, the inevitable.

[jbg]

I think your correct concerning your overall assessment and of course Western forces and allies are acutely aware concerning your thoughts and are desperately trying to prevent albeit temporally, the inevitable.

What "inevitable"?

[Leafless]

I think your correct concerning your overall assessment and of course Western forces and allies are acutely aware concerning your thoughts and are desperately trying to prevent albeit temporally, the inevitable.

What "inevitable"?

The clash of civilizations.

All out war.

[jbg]

I think your correct concerning your overall assessment and of course Western forces and allies are acutely aware concerning your thoughts and are desperately trying to prevent albeit temporally, the inevitable.

What "inevitable"?

The clash of civilizations.

All out war.

That's better. I thought you meant a full-blown Western capitulation to the barbarians and animals.

[jdobbin]

That's better. I thought you meant a full-blown Western capitulation to the barbarians and animals.

Have you told any of your local Muslims what would like to do them?

[rogue state]

Israel is an Anglospheric state ?

Mahmoud Ghalehnoii

[Leafless]

Israel is an Anglospheric state ?

Mahmoud Ghalehnoii

In the sense it is a strong U.S. ally and English is spoken by the majority.

[M.Dancer]

There are more russians in Israel than anglos.........

The interests of Australia are not those of Canada......

[Leafless]

The interests of Australia are not those of Canada......

I noticed that to.

Democratic concerns are badly lacking in Canada.

[Black Dog]

My view, which should surprise no one, is that Canada, the US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Israel should be closely aligned.

Well, they are, so what are you on about?

The world today is being shaped into two conflicting civilizations.

Yeah: by manicheans like you who learn for simple explanations to omplex problems.

This has been happening minimally for decades, but more probably for centuries, and has now become most evident since September 11, 2001.

Translation: "I didn't pay attention to sweet FA in the world until 9-11 rattled my sense of security. And now I just want a daddy to protect me from the Mulims under my bed."

One civilization, led by Judeo-Christian ethics, values life. Individual rights and freedoms, equality of the sexes, and peace amongst nations are pillars upon which this half of the world stands.

Values them so much so they are willing to compromise them at any moment to preserve their security. Or if they just happen to be in the way.

Many world leaders, like President Bush and Prime Minister Blair and Harper, have identified this clearly as a fight against evil. But there are others, many of whom are influential in the media, who don't believe that the values of the Western world are "objectively good."

Gee, could that be because good and evil are ludicrous and subjective concepts, indeed as is the concept of the "western world".

Reuters news service refused to call the September 11 attacks "terrorism," finding that even too much of a moral stretch.

Cite?

This clash calls upon us all to must make a clear choice. Are we confident in our own values and morals? Do we know that they are objectively good and thus worth defending and fighting for?

Sure, if there was a real threat to us out there.

I have often wondered why many Canadians lack the self-confidence in its own democratic values to stand up for them. A It is time for Canada to stand up for its own, core values.

Maybe because most Canadians aren't Chicken Little babies who belive their values are so weak that a stiff breeze will topple them?

review of these threads reveals almost a self-hatred, though, through the aegis of anti-American sentiment, particularly on such issues as Iraq and the Middle East.

What's more interesting (and as I've commented on before) is the fact that the most pro "War on terror"/anti-Muslim posters here are also tend to be the most socially regressive, backward-looking critics of secular pluralistic values. The true self-haters are the one's who deplore the permissive state of our society and long for a glorious return to a half-imagined past

[jbg]

Israel is an Anglospheric state ?

Mahmoud Ghalehnoii

In the sense it is a strong U.S. ally and English is spoken by the majority.

Israel complies with all of the Anglosphere conditions described by James Bennett in "Anglosphere Primer" (link) excerpted below:

=====================================================================

Over the past several years, a new term, Anglosphere, has crept into political and social discussion in the English-speaking world. This term, which can be defined briefly as the set of English-speaking, Common Law nations, implies far more than merely the sum of all persons who employ English as a first or second language. To be part of the Anglosphere requires adherence to the fundamental customs and values that form the core of English-speaking cultures. These include individualism, rule of law, honoring contracts and covenants, and the elevation of freedom to the first rank of political and cultural values. Nations comprising the Anglosphere share a common historical narrative in which the Magna Carta, the English and American Bills of Rights, and such Common Law principles as trial by jury, presumption of innocence, "a man's home is his castle", and "a man's word is his bond" are taken for granted.

*snip*

Anglospherism is based on the intellectual understanding of the roots of both successful market economies and constitutional democracies in strong civil society; in the understanding of the multigenerational persistence of cultural factors in the success of maintaining strong civil society; and in the awareness of the depth of cooperation possible among such societies to a degree not possible among weaker or nonexistent civil societies. Anglosphere theory examines the reality that on almost any ranking of the characteristics of successful civil societies - - prosperity, political freedom, social trust, new company formation and innovation -- the Anglosphere nations form a significant cluster at the top, accompanied only by the Scandinavian countries and a few outliers such as Switzerland.

*snip*

[rogue state]

do you think that scandinavians and switzerland would want to join "anglosphera" ?

[ft.niagara]

do you think that scandinavians and switzerland would want to join "anglosphera" ?

Not a chance. They don't speak English.

[rogue state]

that's not the real reason.

nobody likes anglosaxons.

sure they should stick together.

[Remiel]

If you take a close look at your requirements, jbg, you'll see that as of this month the U.S. no longer complies with some of them, and thus can no longer claim to be part of the " Anglosphere " .

[Figleaf]

My view, which should surprise no one, is that Canada, the US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Israel should be closely aligned.

I'd like to know what the anglo-sphere countries could hope to gain from hitching our wagons to Israel's territorial ambitions. For that matter, what would Canada gain from jumping aboard with the imperialist machinations of the U.S. or the imperialist pretences of the UK?

The world today is being shaped into two conflicting civilizations.

China and India?

One civilization, led by Judeo-Christian ethics, values life. Individual rights and freedoms, equality of the sexes, and peace amongst nations are pillars upon which this half of the world stands.

Judeo-Christian ethics? C.R.A.P. Individual rights, and equality of the sexes are secular values that won out despite being heartily opposed by Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Many world leaders, like President Bush and Prime Minister Blair and Harper, have identified this clearly as a fight against evil.

They do share a mysterious pathology, don't they?

But there are others, many of whom are influential in the media, who don't believe that the values of the Western world are "objectively good."

Before you complain, show me anything that's 'objectively' anything, please.

Do we know that they are objectively good and thus worth defending and fighting for?

They would be worth fighting for, if necessary. But not because of the silly idea they are "objectively" good.

I have often wondered why many Canadians lack the self-confidence in its own democratic values to stand up for them.

What occasion(s) are you thinking of?

A review of these threads reveals almost a self-hatred,...

True. Many Canadian right-wingers seem to really despise Canada and its values.

"Over the past several years, a new term, Anglosphere, ... can be defined briefly as the set of English-speaking, Common Law nations,...

Earlier you mentioned Israel. Is Israel a Common Law jurisdiction? Is English an official language there?

To be part of the Anglosphere requires adherence to the fundamental customs and values that form the core of English-speaking cultures. These include individualism, rule of law, honoring contracts and covenants, and the elevation of freedom to the first rank of political and cultural values.

How does the Patriot Act 'elevate freedom to the first rank'? How does illegal wiretapping uphold the rule of law?

Nations comprising the Anglosphere share a common historical narrative in which the Magna Carta, the English and American Bills of Rights, and such Common Law principles ... are taken for granted.

America's Bill of rights is not 'granted' or needed here. Oddly, the Canadians most likely to seek tighter ties with the Bushblairosphere seem to really hate our own Charter of Rights.

... the Anglosphere nations form a significant cluster at the top, accompanied only by the Scandinavian countries and a few outliers such as Switzerland."

Identified anglosphere countries: Canada, the US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand (=5)

A 'few outliers' near the top: Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium, Japan, Germany, France, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway (=10).

Looks like the anglosphere has no monopoly on success. (But consider the Vikingsphere ... now that's impressive).

[ft.niagara]

A 'few outliers' near the top: Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium, Japan, Germany, France, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway (=10).

The issue is language and population. Japan has a very different language than any in Europe. Even Norway and Sweden speak a different language. At this time, English is the international language. French was a one time. Someday maybe Manderin or Hindi.

[ft.niagara]

Identified anglosphere countries: Canada, the US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand (=5)

Canada is unique among the 5 because it is at least one third French speaking. It is officially a bilingual country, and it seems to be reflected in its politics.

[Figleaf]

A 'few outliers' near the top: Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium, Japan, Germany, France, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway (=10).

The issue is language and population. Japan has a very different language than any in Europe. Even Norway and Sweden speak a different language. At this time, English is the international language. French was a one time. Someday maybe Manderin or Hindi.

No, pay attention. The issue I addressed with that comment was the contention that the anglosphere countries held unique status at the summit of socio-economic development. The facts show they are not unique in that respect.

[ft.niagara]

The facts show they are not unique in that respect.

What respect, that non English speaking countries are also developed? That the English language is irrelevant to economic achievement? That an island nation like NZ is well developed, and happens to speak English, and there are many other island nations which are basket cases, but this has nothing to do with language?

Oh, and I shall pay better attention in the future. lol.

[Figleaf]

The facts show they are not unique in that respect.

What respect, that non English speaking countries are also developed? That the English language is irrelevant to economic achievement? That an island nation like NZ is well developed, and happens to speak English, and there are many other island nations which are basket cases, but this has nothing to do with language?

Oh, and I shall pay better attention in the future. lol.

I guess I can hope you'll begin to pay attention sometime, although so far you've missed the same point twice.

The point of that particular comment is that the anglosphere countries are not unique in achieving high levels of socio-economic development.