9-11 Debunked

[JerrySeinfeld]

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html

[GostHacked]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march...toffscousin.htm

[JerrySeinfeld]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march...toffscousin.htm

A very typical lefty example of attacking people instead of fact.

As for your article's CLAIM that no explanation for the building collapse is provided...

FACT:

We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

STICK TO FACTS PLEASE

[Michael Hardner]

911 Myths

This is the definitive site for keeping track of controversies, debunking and debunk-debunking.

My own take on it is that the web is full of conspiracy theorists (big surprise there) while traditional media defends the status quo. As a result, the conspiracy folks react more quickly to magazine articles, television and so forth - leaving the mainstream media without a response to their criticisms.

That's why webs like 911 Myths are so important. He's done a magnificent job of going through all the theories and trying to offer explanations. For the most part, it seems to me that the conspiracy theories are mostly based on errors or misreporting.

Do check it out.

[jdobbin]

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html

Popular Mechanics is owned by a secret collective out to take over the world.

[sharkman]

Nice to see the facts spelled out for the tin foil hatters, not that something like the facts will change their minds...

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The only enlightening thing about 9/11 is how it changed a Presidency. Bush campaigned on less government and less involvement in the lives of citizens, but look how things have turned out. I don't blame Bush for this, I just state a fact. Amercans have lost some freedom and are now subject to corporate governance. The military industrial complex has added trillions to their national debt. That little segment of the economy is so large that it now dominates all other areas. Defense contractors account for a huge percentage of employment, and those are good paying jobs. In turn this has provided much disposable income for citizens who have been raising families and buying houses. This residential development is the source of their next largest industry. Along with this industry is the real estate sector which has been booming for as long as the defense contractors have, an interesting point I might add. Now consider this, what happens when the bubble bursts on the real estate sector? Defaulted mortages are becoming very common and the bankruptcy rules are changing. Those unfortunate citizens finding themselves in a credit crunch will have an adverse impact to the financial sector which will cause some ripples in that industry. Since the government borrows money to buy the bombs and bullits the defense contrators make, and since taxes are going down what effect will that have on the US dollar? In addition the oil producing countries in the middle east are shifting to Euro Dollars instead of greenbacks, doesn't that mean a significant drop in demand for US dollars? What do people think will happen to the US dollar, and what will the economic impact be of replacing the greenback with the Euro?

The United States has lost its budget surplus and replaced it with a deficit. That is what 9/11 has done, but it isn't over yet. Times are changing.............

[GostHacked]

911 Myths

This is the definitive site for keeping track of controversies, debunking and debunk-debunking.

My own take on it is that the web is full of conspiracy theorists (big surprise there) while traditional media defends the status quo. As a result, the conspiracy folks react more quickly to magazine articles, television and so forth - leaving the mainstream media without a response to their criticisms.

That's why webs like 911 Myths are so important. He's done a magnificent job of going through all the theories and trying to offer explanations. For the most part, it seems to me that the conspiracy theories are mostly based on errors or misreporting.

Do check it out.

http://www.unansweredquestions.org/timeline/

Paul Thompson goes into detail about the errors and misreporting in the MSM.

I've seen the way the MSM treats those people. I have seen Steven Jones (the physics professer) on Tucker Carlson's show one time. The MSM calls them freaks, unpatriotic, stupid ect.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kMqPbdti39U

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sFbG3DcZAqc

How does a NORAD official know there was a bomb on board?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7kq3V0mMLqI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7kq3V0mMLqI

Good ol FOX news.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wNGQrVxotxI

Good ol FOX news again.

'So you are NOT teaching a course on 9/11, I jsut want to be clear on that' Wow they really wanted to focus on that one.

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.unansweredquestions.org/timeline/

Paul Thompson goes into detail about the errors and misreporting in the MSM.

That site is quite large and covers a broad range of topics. I saw a section on genetic engineering in seeds, and on hurricane Katrina. Is there a link to a subset that deals specifically with 9-11 theories ?

[sharkman]

The only enlightening thing about 9/11 is how it changed a Presidency. Bush campaigned on less government and less involvement in the lives of citizens, but look how things have turned out. I don't blame Bush for this, I just state a fact. Amercans have lost some freedom and are now subject to corporate governance. The military industrial complex has added trillions to their national debt. That little segment of the economy is so large that it now dominates all other areas. Defense contractors account for a huge percentage of employment, and those are good paying jobs. In turn this has provided much disposable income for citizens who have been raising families and buying houses. This residential development is the source of their next largest industry. Along with this industry is the real estate sector which has been booming for as long as the defense contractors have, an interesting point I might add. Now consider this, what happens when the bubble bursts on the real estate sector? Defaulted mortages are becoming very common and the bankruptcy rules are changing. Those unfortunate citizens finding themselves in a credit crunch will have an adverse impact to the financial sector which will cause some ripples in that industry. Since the government borrows money to buy the bombs and bullits the defense contrators make, and since taxes are going down what effect will that have on the US dollar? In addition the oil producing countries in the middle east are shifting to Euro Dollars instead of greenbacks, doesn't that mean a significant drop in demand for US dollars? What do people think will happen to the US dollar, and what will the economic impact be of replacing the greenback with the Euro?

The United States has lost its budget surplus and replaced it with a deficit. That is what 9/11 has done, but it isn't over yet. Times are changing.............

Yes, there was a paradigm shift whose effects haven't all been felt yet. The new big picture is not completely in focus.

[PolyNewbie]

If this whole war on terrorism is for real, how come the Mexican borders are still open ? If it was real wouldn't Bin Laden have come up through Mexico and killed everybody already ?

[gc1765]

If this whole war on terrorism is for real, how come the Mexican borders are still open ? If it was real wouldn't Bin Laden have come up through Mexico and killed everybody already ?

How would bin laden get to mexico?

[PolyNewbie]

qc1765:How would bin laden get to mexico?

Borrow a plane from the Bush family and fly ?

I don't know how many ways there are to get from Afganistan to Mexico, but I'm sure that if he could engineer 911 from a cave in Afganistan that he could get to Mexico.

[gc1765]

qc1765:How would bin laden get to mexico?

Borrow a plane from the Bush family and fly ?

I don't know how many ways there are to get from Afganistan to Mexico, but I'm sure that if he could engineer 911 from a cave in Afganistan that he could get to Mexico.

You dont' think he'd get arrested as soon as he arrived in Mexico? Unless he has a fake passport and plastic surgery, I doubt it. How would he even get to the airport without being caught by western troops?

[PolyNewbie]

qc1765:You dont' think he'd get arrested as soon as he arrived in Mexico? Unless he has a fake passport and plastic surgery, I doubt it. How would he even get to the airport without being caught by western troops?

Same reason he hasn't been arrested in any of the other countries he has visited ? Even the Taliban volunteered to turn him over and the USA refused.

Maybe a shave, fake gringo mustache and a faked accent would do it.

He isn't on the FBI most wanted list for 911 because the FBI doesn't have the evidence they need to indict him for 911. Zero evidence and rumour is enough to convince a dumbed down public, but not the courts.

Of course now that Habeus Corpus is gone, evidence is not needed to arrest and convict someone. Oh well, I guess that whole Magna Catra thing was overrated.

[gc1765]

Same reason he hasn't been arrested in any of the other countries he has visited ? Even the Taliban volunteered to turn him over and the USA refused.

Maybe a shave, fake gringo mustache and a faked accent would do it.

He isn't on the FBI most wanted list for 911 because the FBI doesn't have the evidence they need to indict him for 911. Zero evidence and rumour is enough to convince a dumbed down public, but not the courts.

Of course now that Habeus Corpus is gone, evidence is not needed to arrest and convict someone. Oh well, I guess that whole Magna Catra thing was overrated.

I'm not sure if there is enough evidence to convict him, but if the U.S. can get a confession out of him (which shouldn't be too hard since he's confessed before) that should be enough to convict him.

[GostHacked]

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/response/...laden.tape.html

You can watch that 'confession tape' here.

Better quality here.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-51...447&q=osama

Osama does not wear rings or any jewlery.

here is another video of bin Laden

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=689...626&q=osama

Those two men do not look the same. Check out the nose dudes.

[Michael Hardner]

They look pretty much the same to me.

[sharkman]

Hey, here's a little something to explore the funnier side of 9/11 theories.

My favourite line: Bush - "But 1/4th of the population is retarded! If they want to believe we control everything with intricate plans, why not let them."

[PolyNewbie]

I found this quite funny being a 911 truther. I think Bush just told it like it was in his first lines starting with "we have all worked hard to keep 911 a secret...". The establishment is like Bush says it is but he isn't the one in charge.

Does anyone know what the title of this episode was ?

[PolyNewbie]

From your site at 911 Myths, I found this statement:

"Did firefighters abandon their fallen brothers to help real estate developer Larry Silverstein demolish a skyscraper?

Conspiracist Alex Jones and other 9/11 “Truth Movement” leaders gather at Ground Zero and accuse Silverstein of murder and FDNY heroes of heinous crimes, lies and cover-ups.

Do their claims stand up to examination?"

No one is saying that firefighters put explosives into wtc7. No one is saying that anyone died as a result of wtc7 collapsing because no one was in or around the building when it did collapse. This is a set of false claims put forth by whoever wrote this site to attempt to falsely discredit the 911 truth movement.

[sharkman]

So you're a 911 truther, eh? Sorry friend, but I think you 'truthers' are looking for something that isn't there. No disaster like this will ever have every piece of evidence and proof to explain every last detail simply because they weren't expecting the attack.

Just because some things go unexplained doesn't automatically mean there is a government conspiracy behind it. Wait, I know I'm wrong, don't bother.

[Michael Hardner]

From your site at 911 Myths, I found this statement:

"Did firefighters abandon their fallen brothers to help real estate developer Larry Silverstein demolish a skyscraper?

Conspiracist Alex Jones and other 9/11 “Truth Movement” leaders gather at Ground Zero and accuse Silverstein of murder and FDNY heroes of heinous crimes, lies and cover-ups.

Do their claims stand up to examination?"

No one is saying that firefighters put explosives into wtc7. No one is saying that anyone died as a result of wtc7 collapsing because no one was in or around the building when it did collapse. This is a set of false claims put forth by whoever wrote this site to attempt to falsely discredit the 911 truth movement.

I'm interested, but your link didn't work. Please point me to the section where that is posted.

[newbie]

So you're a 911 truther, eh? Sorry friend, but I think you 'truthers' are looking for something that isn't there. No disaster like this will ever have every piece of evidence and proof to explain every last detail simply because they weren't expecting the attack.

It was a crime scene first, then a disaster.

[PolyNewbie]

Michael Hardner:I'm interested, but your link didn't work. Please point me to the section where that is posted.

Its on the "Whats New" link on the 911Myths site that you posted.

This site is a perfect example of lies, twisted logic and half truths that the maintainance of the official version depends on.

No wonder there is no ones name on it.