Was Brian Mulroney a Crook?

[cpidgeon]

Your entitled to your opinion but there was enough bitterness about what happened that many traditional NDP grassroots supporters continued to support her and ensured Liberal victory in Churchill.

Thats true but convention rules and all incumbents must support all policy from convention. If she was a tory or a liberal she would have been thrown out of caucus but that didn't happen. She resigned from caucus after her defeat by riding members.

[jdobbin]

Thats true but convention rules and all incumbents must support all policy from convention. If she was a tory or a liberal she would have been thrown out of caucus but that didn't happen. She resigned from caucus after her defeat by riding members.

And the outcome was the loss of one NDP seat.

[cpidgeon]

And the outcome was the loss of one NDP seat.

Yep..you're right. Its a matter of principles.

[cpidgeon]

I am a member of the CAW and have disengaged my activism with the union over principles. I prefer to be active in other social movements that adhere to the same principles I have.

[cpidgeon]

Honestly if I was a member of the NDP in the churchill riding. I would not have supported Bev at the nomination meeting. I liked her and she was a good critic but the same sex marriage issue would have turned me off

[jbg]

How would you feel being a member of the liberals in David Emerson's riding after nominating the guy and a week after the election he crosses the floor. would you as a member support this guy in another nomination meeting

He gave a hint of dissatisfaction a few weeks before the election, saying that it was time for the Liberals to "pull the goalie".

[jdobbin]

He gave a hint of dissatisfaction a few weeks before the election, saying that it was time for the Liberals to "pull the goalie".

If there was one thing that I heard from Tories who are big supporters of Harper, it was how disappointed they were in taking Emerson into the cabinet immediately after the election.

[jbg]

Good move for Harper. Even if it pains him.

Harper is not from the same party as Mulroney. Why would it "pain him"? Harper was from the Alliance wing, Mulroney quite definitely was not. Just ask Kim Campbell.

[jdobbin]

Harper is not from the same party as Mulroney. Why would it "pain him"? Harper was from the Alliance wing, Mulroney quite definitely was not. Just ask Kim Campbell.

But Harper regularly meets with Mulroney and has been one of the people trying to rehabilitate his reputation in the last months.

[Michael Bluth]

But Harper regularly meets with Mulroney and has been one of the people trying to rehabilitate his reputation in the last months.

In spite of that he has called for an investigation.

Yet another example of Prime Minister Harper doing the right thing for Canadians.

[jbg]

If there was one thing that I heard from Tories who are big supporters of Harper, it was how disappointed they were in taking Emerson into the cabinet immediately after the election.

I'm not Canadian and I'm not a Tory. I'm a hard-left US Democrat.

Having cleared the air, I will state my position on this issue. I felt, and still feel, that the choice of Emerson was excellent. Let me explain.

Use of Aisle Crossers in Cabinet

The U.S. Republican Party (the one you would say is most closely analogous to the CPC) is, in its post 1978 incarnation, a party whose intellectual force, and many of its elected and non-elected government officials are former Democrats. These include

1. Ronald Reagan;
   
2. Norman Podhoretz (Commentary Magazine editor emeritus, editor-in-chief from founding through early 1990’s);
   
3. Jeanne Kirkpatrick (UN Ambassador under Reagan);
   
4. Paul Wolfowitz; and
   
5. Strom Thurmond (former Senator from South Carolina)
   

There are in fact many more. Further, the difference between Reagan’s relatively generous 51% (in a 3 candidate race) or so in 1980 to 58.6% in 1984 represented almost entirely the swing of previously staunchly Democratic voters to the Republican Party. Unlike the situation following Nixon’s victory in 1972, with similar popular vote totals, these voters have by and large continued to vote Republican.

Thus, while our systems are not exactly the same, Harper was, and still is ,busily pulling away a piece of the Liberal Party. Lately, the CPC has even become the Federalist option in Quebec. Quite stunning for a non-Catholic, non-French speaking (natively I mean) party leader. Similar to the situation in our country, the Liberals have lost their voice. Dion's pained twisting makes this evident. All that it takes to implode the Liberals is to kick the rotten door.

Use of Unelected Temporary Senators in Cabinet

I have felt for a long time that a Cabinet should be a professional and unelected body, the way it is in the US. I wonder, for example, if one asked the "Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians" where the Cree live, that he’d have any idea.

I believe that a Cabinet officer should have some significant degree of prior knowledge of his or her assigned portfolio area, and that the Cabinet should not just be a patronage award for MP’s.

Thus, in sum, I feel that Harper’s moves started out brilliant, both for the party and for Canada. They've only gotten better.

[shavluk]

edit adding mike's silly comments

****In spite of that he has called for an investigation.

Yet another example of Prime Minister Harper doing the right thing for Canadians****

You of course being biased I guess heard different than the actual words.

There is no investigation! That is the problem.

This is a smoke screen for the dense!

Your blind obedience is admirable Mr conservative , your listening skills how ever need work!

Edited November 10, 2007 by shavluk

[jdobbin]

I'm not Canadian and I'm not a Tory. I'm a hard-left US Democrat.

Having cleared the air, I will state my position on this issue. I felt, and still feel, that the choice of Emerson was excellent. Let me explain.

Thus, in sum, I feel that Harper’s moves started out brilliant, both for the party and for Canada. They've only gotten better.

A hard left Democrat who votes Republican.

I can't think of any of the people you mentioned as having crossed the floor immediately after winning election for another party. Not one. Can you?

It was Conservatives themselves who expressed real disappointment in the decision to bring Emerson in like that.

[jdobbin]

****In spite of that he has called for an investigation.

Yet another example of Prime Minister Harper doing the right thing for Canadians****

Your blind obedience is admirable Mr conservative , your listening skills how ever need work!

Every decision Harper makes is one where brilliance is involved and doing the right thing for Canadians.

[noahbody]

Corruption = conservatives and liberals... No more corruption..Vote NDP

How about:

Vote NDP. They're too stupid to be corrupt!

[jbg]

A hard left Democrat who votes Republican.

The Democrats' harvest of candidates has been abysmal of late. My default vote is still Democratic.

I can't think of any of the people you mentioned as having crossed the floor immediately after winning election for another party. Not one. Can you?

Kirkpatrick served most of her term as UN Ambassador as a Democrat.

It was Conservatives themselves who expressed real disappointment in the decision to bring Emerson in like that.

Not all of them by a longshot.

[jdobbin]

The Democrats' harvest of candidates has been abysmal of late. My default vote is still Democratic.

Kirkpatrick served most of her term as UN Ambassador as a Democrat.

Not all of them by a longshot.

You could always run yourself as a Democrat.

Kirkpatrick was not someone elected who jumped ship shortly after being elected.

Since you weren't in Canada at the time, I don't imagine you heard the call ins to radio nor the letters from Conservative supporters upset and angry about Emerson.

[Michael Bluth]

You of course being biased I guess heard different than the actual words.

There is no investigation! That is the problem.

This is a smoke screen for the dense!

Your blind obedience is admirable Mr conservative , your listening skills how ever need work!

I hadn't realized the government officially announced a 'smoke screen for the dense'.

Post a link to inform me enlightened sire.

[jbg]

You could always run yourself as a Democrat.

Which I am, and have been since May 1975..

Kirkpatrick was not someone elected who jumped ship shortly after being elected.

She was a Cabinet-level official. In the US Cabinet members are never elected. She sure jumped ship though, in a big way.

Since you weren't in Canada at the time, I don't imagine you heard the call ins to radio nor the letters from Conservative supporters upset and angry about Emerson.

I read the boo-hoos on plenty of boards.

[jbg]

I hadn't realized the government officially announced a 'smoke screen for the dense'.

Post a link to inform me enlightened sire.

There are some posters (not you Mike) who'd be screened out as dense.

[jdobbin]

Which I am, and have been since May 1975..

She was a Cabinet-level official. In the US Cabinet members are never elected. She sure jumped ship though, in a big way.

I read the boo-hoos on plenty of boards.

So run if you are not happy with the candidates.

Is Kirkpartick comparable as someone to actually runs on a party ticket and jumps ship before the first sitting of legislators? It was unseemly even by standards set by Stronach which I thought Harper didn't want any association with.

[jbg]

So run if you are not happy with the candidates.

Yeah right.

Is Kirkpartick comparable as someone to actually runs on a party ticket and jumps ship before the first sitting of legislators? It was unseemly even by standards set by Stronach which I thought Harper didn't want any association with.

Strom Thurmond and Wayne Morse (I think that's the right first name, but a Senator from Oregon) (and one each way) did just that.

[jdobbin]

Yeah right.

Strom Thurmond and Wayne Morse (I think that's the right first name, but a Senator from Oregon) (and one each way) did just that.

I ran. It seems to me that if you really want to help the Democrats with your hard left views, you should run. Instead you complain how inferior the Democrat candidates are and don't really put yourself out there to do anything about it.

Thurmond ran as a Democrat and two years later endorsed a Republican. He didn't cross a day after winning.

Wayne Morse ran as a Republican and left years later to protest Ike's running mate. He then sat as an independent. He later ran as Democrat.

All of the examples you've given were not overnight conversions immediately after an election.

[Michael Bluth]

Thurmond ran as a Democrat and two years later endorsed a Republican. He didn't cross a day after winning.

Who crossed a day after winning an election? Nobody in Canadian history.

Seems like another misrepresentation of the facts.

[Michael Bluth]

Harper has done the right thing for Canadians, again.

Paul Wells said it best as he so often does, from his blog.

It is always extremely disconcerting for opposition parties when governments do the right thing. First because it is the right thing, and the guys who aren't in government didn't get to do it. Second, because by the peculiar logic of Canadian politics, apparently opposition parties can never simply say thanks. So when governments do the right thing, opposition parties bend themselves into pretzels trying to figure out why they're against it.

Mr. Mulroney has had increasing amounts of explaining to do for three years now. It was reasonable to give such an eminent citizen plenty of time to give us that explanation. He gave us Luc Lavoie and talking points, and that wasn't enough, and time's up, and good on Stephen Harper for finally ringing the end of recess.