Canadians want government to meet Kyoto targets

[gerryhatrick]

Canadians more worried about climate change, support Kyoto targets: poll

OTTAWA (CP) - Climate change has jumped dramatically on the scale of Canadians' worries over the last year and most people want the government to meet Kyoto targets, according to an environmental poll.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...a1d&k=45318

Good news.

Cue all the tired old opinions that Kyoto is useless. It's so interesting to hear that one....for the thousandth time.

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue. They should have had more than 70 odd people in their focus group!!

[fellowtraveller]

I noticed the poll didn't ask the pertinent question: are you personally willing to sacrifice your job, your car and your lifestyle in support of achieving or exceeding Kyoto targets?

What do you think the percentage of 'strongly agree' would be for that question?

[August1991]

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue. They should have had more than 70 odd people in their focus group!!

That terrible Harper, his whole environmental policy is poll-driven. The guy has no substance at all, he bends with the wind.

I think this is an instance where Harper will once again defy the media nay-sayers and when the dust settles, he'll be on top again.

[Borg]

Canadians more worried about climate change, support Kyoto targets: poll

Most folks I know are more worried about making the bills for the month.

I will worry about this when I figure out how to keep a couple bucks in my wallet until the next paycheque rolls in.

Borg

[Charles Anthony]

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue.

I do not even know a single Canadian who even knows what the Kyoto plan actually involves!

Hands up anybody out there who knows anything about the Kyoto deal????

[southerncomfort]

You beat me to the punch most Canucks I talk to don't have a clue about Kyoto. Sure they are worried about pollution and think Kyoto is the b all to end all, they havn't read up on it. What very few canucks are aware of is the purchase of credits and that Kyoto is really about distributing wealth. And oh gee, can't China and India for example continue polluting at a higher rate.

Oh yea, cagies Harping is getting boring

[Argus]

Canadians more worried about climate change, support Kyoto targets: poll

OTTAWA (CP) - Climate change has jumped dramatically on the scale of Canadians' worries over the last year and most people want the government to meet Kyoto targets, according to an environmental poll.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...a1d&k=45318

Good news.

Cue all the tired old opinions that Kyoto is useless. It's so interesting to hear that one....for the thousandth time.

it probably is useless. Even most of its defenders admit it will have little impact.

More to the point, very few Canadians know anything about Kyoto, or how we would go about meeting our goals. The Liberals blithely signed onto Kyoto because they valued empty, meaningless gestures. Once it was signed and the cameras went home, they got on with business, and never did a thing to actually meet the goals. Now instead of having cut emissions by 6% we've raised emissions by over 20%. To reach our goals we have to slash emissions by almost 1/3rd over the next few years.

Impossible.

Tell Canadians that to meet our goals we have to shut down the oil fields, mining and auto industries and see if they're still willing. Tell them that to meet our goals we have to pay billions to purchase "environmental credits" from third world countries - which ultimately does not help the environment or cut back on emissions one tiny bit - and see if they're still willing.

[Canuck E Stan]

Canadians more worried about climate change, support Kyoto targets: poll

OTTAWA (CP) - Climate change has jumped dramatically on the scale of Canadians' worries over the last year and most people want the government to meet Kyoto targets, according to an environmental poll.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...a1d&k=45318

Good news.

Cue all the tired old opinions that Kyoto is useless. It's so interesting to hear that one....for the thousandth time.

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue. They should have had more than 70 odd people in their focus group!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's not confused the Kyoto targets and with the Kyoto Protocol.

Most environmental targets are very similar to the one presented by Kyoto.

This poll does not say Canadians support the Protocol, only the targets.

Cleaner air,cleaner water and climate are concerns for most of us(who's against it?).

The government's plan for a made in Canada environmental policy will take these concerns to the people later this fall.

It's stupid to make accusations about what the government will propose without knowing what will be proposed.

And any idiot that insinuated that people are supporting the Kyoto Protocol when in fact they are talking about people supporting environmental targets is just as stupid.

[tml12]

Canadians more worried about climate change, support Kyoto targets: poll

OTTAWA (CP) - Climate change has jumped dramatically on the scale of Canadians' worries over the last year and most people want the government to meet Kyoto targets, according to an environmental poll.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...a1d&k=45318

Good news.

Cue all the tired old opinions that Kyoto is useless. It's so interesting to hear that one....for the thousandth time.

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue. They should have had more than 70 odd people in their focus group!!

Gerry why are you being so juvenile about this? Canada can't meet it's Kyoto targets BECAUSE OF THE LIBERALS. Instead of staying the course on a losing path, Harper is trying to explain to Canadians that we can't meet our targets because of past Liberal incompetence and is looking for a current solution.

Your posts on this topic are pathetic.

[tml12]

I noticed the poll didn't ask the pertinent question: are you personally willing to sacrifice your job, your car and your lifestyle in support of achieving or exceeding Kyoto targets?

What do you think the percentage of 'strongly agree' would be for that question?

Good point fellowtraveler.

[betsy]

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue.

I do not even know a single Canadian who even knows what the Kyoto plan actually involves!

Hands up anybody out there who knows anything about the Kyoto deal????

I don't know much about it.

[B. Max]

What that poll says is that most Canadians are willing dupes. Most Canadians think food comes from the grocery store. Does that mean we should do away with farms. I will give you this. The government has done absolutely noting to tell people the truth, and they should not be forgiven for that. They should have exposed man made global warming and kyoto for the frauds that they are.

[August1991]

You beat me to the punch most Canucks I talk to don't have a clue about Kyoto. Sure they are worried about pollution and think Kyoto is the b all to end all, they havn't read up on it. What very few canucks are aware of is the purchase of credits and that Kyoto is really about distributing wealth.

I'll pick on Southern Comfort, although everyone else seems to be using the "Canadians are ignorant about Kyoto argument".

Well, so what! Most Canadians are ignorant about all kinds of arcane issues, but that doesn't stop them having an opinion, and often an intelligent opinion.

It is obvious that Canadians are concerned about the environment and want the government to do something about it.

I took the trouble of finding the wording of the question used in the poll:

As you may know, the international Kyoto agreement to address “global warming” requires countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. For Canada that means cutting emissions from the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas to 6 percent below 1990 levels, over the next 10 years. Do you support or oppose Canada adopting the Kyoto agreement? PROBE: Is that strongly or somewhat …?

Link (Admittedly, that was a 2002 poll but McAllister's web site explains that they pose the same question to track responses.)

To that question, 77% of Canadians answered either "strongly support" or "somewhat support". You are foolish to dismiss this by saying that Canadians don't know what they are saying. I'm sure Harper is not so foolish as you.

Compared to Afghanistan, this is an issue that could determine who will form the next government.

----

BTW, the poll linked in the OP was conducted in July 2006. Why is it now in the news?

[jbg]

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue.

I do not even know a single Canadian who even knows what the Kyoto plan actually involves!

Hands up anybody out there who knows anything about the Kyoto deal????

I'm not a Canadian, but I know plenty about it. It had its genesis in a financial fraud driven by Maurice Strong. The "cause" was picked up by a combination of "command and control" people who cannot stand allowing ordinary people to enjoy prosperity, even if they do quite well themselves.

The science is flimsy to non-existant on how any "global warming" can be attributed to human activities as opposed to natural cycles. Oh, the punch line; 97% of greenhouse gases are water vapor, 3% CO2. Any idea how much economic activity would have to be reduced to make a meaningful dent, even if "global warming" was man-made?

[B. Max]

If reports about the Conservative environmental plan are true they are out of step with a huge majority of Canadians on this issue.

I do not even know a single Canadian who even knows what the Kyoto plan actually involves!

Hands up anybody out there who knows anything about the Kyoto deal????

I'm not a Canadian, but I know plenty about it. It had its genesis in a financial fraud driven by Maurice Strong. The "cause" was picked up by a combination of "command and control" people who cannot stand allowing ordinary people to enjoy prosperity, even if they do quite well themselves.

The science is flimsy to non-existant on how any "global warming" can be attributed to human activities as opposed to natural cycles. Oh, the punch line; 97% of greenhouse gases are water vapor, 3% CO2. Any idea how much economic activity would have to be reduced to make a meaningful dent, even if "global warming" was man-made?

Yeah and the treehuggers want to burn hydrogen and pump more water vapor into the atmosphere.

[jbg]

Yeah and the treehuggers want to burn hydrogen and pump more water vapor into the atmosphere.

Ignoramuses carrying signs. As Buffalo Springfield so eloquently wrote back in 1969 (I think the song author was Canada's own Neil Young) (song lyrics from memory so may not be exact):

There's something happening here,

What it is ain't exactly clear

Singing songs and carrying signs

Mostly saying hooray for our side...

[B. Max]

Yeah and the treehuggers want to burn hydrogen and pump more water vapor into the atmosphere.

Ignoramuses carrying signs. As Buffalo Springfield so eloquently wrote back in 1969 (I think the song author was Canada's own Neil Young) (song lyrics from memory so may not be exact):

There's something happening here,

What it is ain't exactly clear

Singing songs and carrying signs

Mostly saying hooray for our side...

Maybe we should have water vapor declared a pollutant.

[August1991]

Yeah and the treehuggers want to burn hydrogen and pump more water vapor into the atmosphere.

B. Max, would you object if I came over to your house and dumped garbage on your front lawn (without paying you for the inconvenience)?

So what gives anyone the right to dump garbage into the atmosphere for free? Can I walk into a WalMart and take what I need (without paying)? Do you agree that anyone should be able to litter anywhere they want?

In this world, we accept it as normal that we pay for the use of something. We should pay for the use of the environment. In fact, many of our problems stem from the fact that what often appears to be free usually isn't. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

[B. Max]

Yeah and the treehuggers want to burn hydrogen and pump more water vapor into the atmosphere.

B. Max, would you object if I came over to your house and dumped garbage on your front lawn (without paying you for the inconvenience)?

So what gives anyone the right to dump garbage into the atmosphere for free? Can I walk into a WalMart and take what I need (without paying)? Do you agree that anyone should be able to litter anywhere they want?

In this world, we accept it as normal that we pay for the use of something. We should pay for the use of the environment. In fact, many of our problems stem from the fact that what often appears to be free usually isn't. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Are you also suggesting CO2 is a pollutant. Because if you are, then you are a polluter. What right do you have to suck air.

[geoffrey]

Yeah and the treehuggers want to burn hydrogen and pump more water vapor into the atmosphere.

B. Max, would you object if I came over to your house and dumped garbage on your front lawn (without paying you for the inconvenience)?

So what gives anyone the right to dump garbage into the atmosphere for free? Can I walk into a WalMart and take what I need (without paying)? Do you agree that anyone should be able to litter anywhere they want?

In this world, we accept it as normal that we pay for the use of something. We should pay for the use of the environment. In fact, many of our problems stem from the fact that what often appears to be free usually isn't. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Water vapour is a much bigger contributor to the green house effect, this is fact. It's as dangerous on a 1:1 basis as CO2, if such emissions are actually dangerous.

I think the burden of the tax imposed on pollution should be on the real pollutors Toronto (cars), Windsor Area (manufacturing) and Montreal (smelting), the real contributors to pollution. It's not even a local issue anymore, the disgusting cancer causing air is as far north as North Bay now.

That has a real economic effect on Canadians, now, today. People are dying right this second, if your living in that area, you right now are sucking on air that is full of cancer causing agents. CO2? Not really a big deal right now, might be down the road, but even still, not even close to what cancer will be 20 years from now.

Now tell me what the real issue is in the environment in Canada?

[Argus]

I'll pick on Southern Comfort, although everyone else seems to be using the "Canadians are ignorant about Kyoto argument".

Well, so what! Most Canadians are ignorant about all kinds of arcane issues, but that doesn't stop them having an opinion, and often an intelligent opinion.

That is not the case here.

I took the trouble of finding the wording of the question used in the poll:As you may know, the international Kyoto agreement to address “global warming” requires countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. For Canada that means cutting emissions from the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas to 6 percent below 1990 levels, over the next 10 years. Do you support or oppose Canada adopting the Kyoto agreement? PROBE: Is that strongly or somewhat …?Link (Admittedly, that was a 2002 poll but McAllister's web site explains that they pose the same question to track responses.)

To that question, 77% of Canadians answered either "strongly support" or "somewhat support". You are foolish to dismiss this by saying that Canadians don't know what they are saying.

Canadians are utterly, utterly clueless, totally stupid, and appallingly ignorant about what meeting the Kyoto goals would require. How's that?

Ask this in a poll "In order to meet our Kyoto agreement Canada will be required to close down our oil and gas production, and end automobile manufacturing. Do you agree we should do this?"

Also ask them this: "Are you aware that even the proponents of the Kyoto Accord agree that in itself it will do absolutely nothing to end or even reduce global warming, but that it is merely a "first step" towards doing something of substance?"

In fact, ask them that first. Then ask them if they're willing to go back into major deficits to meet the Kyoto goals.

Just because stupid people are enthusiastic about a diastrous policy that does not mean those of us who take the time to be informed and considerate should have to go along with it.

[Argus]

Yeah and the treehuggers want to burn hydrogen and pump more water vapor into the atmosphere.

B. Max, would you object if I came over to your house and dumped garbage on your front lawn (without paying you for the inconvenience)?

It's HIS front lawn. But I'm sure you can dump it in your own.

So what gives anyone the right to dump garbage into the atmosphere for free?

Everyone pollutes, whether it's by car or whatever.

[Charles Anthony]

everyone else seems to be using the "Canadians are ignorant about Kyoto argument".

Well, so what! Most Canadians are ignorant about all kinds of arcane issues, but that doesn't stop them having an opinion, and often an intelligent opinion.

Actually, the poll shows nothing of the sort.

The poll shows that after finding out what the Kyoto deal involves, 77% of Canadians believe yadda yadda yadda. It shows nothing about whether they knew anything about Kyoto beforehand.

It is obvious that Canadians are concerned about the environment and want the government to do something about it.

-- only after they are explained the Kyoto deal.

I took the trouble of finding the wording of the question used in the poll:

Why bother?

To that question, 77% of Canadians answered either "strongly support" or "somewhat support". You are foolish to dismiss this by saying that Canadians don't know what they are saying. I'm sure Harper is not so foolish as you.

No, quite the contrary. It is foolish to assume that Canadians are fully informed.

The poll shows that an extra 1000 polled people are now educated about what the Kyoto thing happens to be -- and only because they were called up by a pollster and listened to the preamble.

One other problem with interpreting these poll results is that it is slightly convoluted. Is it reasonable for somebody to be able to understand how "cutting emissions from the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas to 6 percent below 1990 levels, over the next 10 years" affects them? Myself, I do not know. How could I expect anybody else to know? By extension, their opinion is just as valuable as asking "Do you care about the environment enough to change your behavior in any way, shape or form?" as a poll question.

Environmentalism should not be dismissed. Whether it is Kyoto (or any other strategy for that matter) deal, I think it behooves us to know more about it. Alternatively, it could be easier for us to put blind trust in our masters and let them make the decisions....

In this world, we accept it as normal that we pay for the use of something. We should pay for the use of the environment. In fact, many of our problems stem from the fact that what often appears to be free usually isn't. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Of course. Whether it is greenhouse gases or water vapor or carbon dioxide, I have no idea. Until there is a market for the environment, there will never be effective conservation.

Can we trust states to prop up and honor such markets?

[Black Dog]

Water vapour is a much bigger contributor to the green house effect, this is fact. It's as dangerous on a 1:1 basis as CO2, if such emissions are actually dangerous.

Uh..guys? If CO2 emissions contribute to warming, that's going to result in more water vapour, no?

[watching&waiting]

Kyoto was based on science of the environmental activists, and while it does have roots in many things, it is not by any means the answer to even a small amount of the problem. It is all about appeasing the activists and do little for the true causes of the environment. One volcano eruption will put more pollutents into the air then a 100 years of man made pollutents. Any large natural disaster such as forest fires etc do more harm then man has ever done in a decade. So why is it so hard for people to understand that all the hype about global warming addresses only a very small part of what is happening around our world. The contribution by man is very small, and while small the activists will say it is better that we do our part no matter how small, just to help the cause.

If we here in Canada could put out forest fires within days instead of weeks and months, then we would contibute 100's of times more to the climate stablization, then we ever would in years of regulated emmissions. Forest fires are something we stand a chance to control, where emissions are hard to get everyone to agree. Since Canada is north of the USA and the winds come from the s/w we will always get much more pollution from their industrial areas, then we do from our own. So yes we should maybe use emmissions as a standard to cause technology to better develope our processes, but we will never be able to say that we can control or even greatly affect the climate we live in.

I would rather a government look at the whole issue in perspective and then make adjustments that can and will makle sense. Kyoto just does not do that.