betsy Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I suggested killing addicts because death was being talked about as a solution. The only reason it was dismissed was because it is messy. And it was dismissed indeed. It became a joke! Really, why would outright "execution" be mentioned other than to twist the logic behind what the poster was saying. And to bring out "ovens" in comparison to Nazi gas chambers? If there is any comparison to be made at all with those dreaded ovens....those disgusting "safe injection" sites really fit the bill! The Jews were lied into thinking they were just going to have a shower to rid themselves of lice and other vermins. Just like these brain-fried addicts AND THE SUPPORTING PUBLIC are being lied into thinking this is for the good of our society! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I had been touched by drugs! I had lived in a house in Canada where their teenage son was in drugs! I don't know what kind of drugs thoug...but it couldn't be just the ordinary marijuana. BTW, the parents were smoking it "recreationally". It got so scary that I moved out fast! That place was "borken into"....an inside job (the suspicion fell on this son). Some of my heirloom jewelries (antiques and with real gems) were part of the things that were stolen. Luckily, they missed some that were mixed with the retro trinkets that were obviously faux pas. I do not dare get up in the middle of the night to go to the washroom, because you could never tell if the person you encounter in the hallwayis a real intruder...or one of the many druggy friends that come and go in that house in the middle of the night. The walls in the basement were deeply slashed by knives....like someone going in a frenzy! The druggy kid hang out in the basement! The man's ex-wife (mother of the kid) was broken into and things were stolen. It was the kid. You can't leave anything of even remote value. If it can be sold...it can easily disappear. It's surprising their tv and vcr lasted long without being stolen....but then, the kid was using them! The couple don't know what to do! The kid already violently fought back with the dad! They wanted him "committed" since they cannot handle him.....but, apparently the kid has to come in voluntarily and want to be helped. I could not help but think that this couple somehow contributed to this situation. The woman had told me that the kid (as a child) once saw them smoking marijuana. If you have a child...why would you bring these into your own home? It may not be addicting....but it is the impression and message that is being given to the child that is detrimental. It is like an introduction.... The families living with someone on drugs are going through hell! That's why it's so laughable that someone suggested the effects of drugs being shown on tv is just plain rubbish! Anyway, I don't see how this injection sites are going to help the families! It might only encouraged those other kids ALREADY LIVING WITH ADDICTS...to go on right ahead....anyway, society is right there behind you...supportive every step of the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Force an addict into a corner - offer them support and forgiveness if they clean up - promise them hell on earth if they refuse (and follow through).Hear, hear! That is a true definition of compassion at work. However, it requires courage and strength on the part of the intervenor. The government should come up with a program...especially aimed at the youth. Like the experience that I've recounted above, the couple approached the system for help, however the rules for the assistance indicated that the child has to come in voluntarily. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT A MINOR....IN THE GRIP OF DRUGS AT THAT.....to come to his senses and say: I want to clean up my act! Minors should be forcibly taken if the parents need intervention and assistance. Minors must be forced into rehabs! And make it so that the mere thought of possible rehab will strike fear into any child...that it will really play into the equation when he/she ponders whether to give drugs a try or not. Those that are already entrenched in it, unfortunately...a lot of them will never be able to kick off the habit! That means it is going to be a continuous effort and spending just to support their drug-use....a perpetual mess-cleaning. Why not get to the root of the mess instead? We may not be able to eliminate drugs at all, but surely we can do something to combat its magnetism that attracts our kids to it! Our money and effort should be concentrated in PREVENTION. Think of the youth....the future drug-users! And those that can still be saved. Youth has the resilience...so there is still hope for those already using the drugs. I say, spend the money in crack-down...NOT crack-up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watching&waiting Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 The problem with safe sites to inject drugs, is that this has nothing to do with the real problem of addition to the drugs in the first place. Those who would use the site for its intended purpose would also soon abuse thwe site in every way they could. I still find it hard to believe that an addict will wait and walk to the site before they inject their purchase of drugs. From my own experience I know that many of the addicts iject right where they buy the drugs, they will use their own syringe etc if they have it, or borrow one from the seller if they do not have one. That should tell volumes about just how little use these sites would be. In my youth I did try just about every kind of drug their were, and I guess I am lucky to be of the type that I did not find these drugs all so compelling, that I carried on using. But my older brother became a speed freak and he and his girlfriend did put myself and our family through hell. I was lucky enough to be able to force my brother out of this, and to this day I still find I can not trust him as before, and he has been clean now for 20 years. It still carries scars though on many memories in the past. Disposible needles and such are not hard to come by, and many programs will now give a new disposible syringe for everyone you bring in that is used. That would be more to my liking but the fact remains that heroine users and others do have a period where they are in a complete stupor after injecting, that they are in danger of anything while in this. Many rapes and things have happened. Not to menetion the OD that happen. It may well be this that the safe sites are trying to address, but I still do not see value in it by making things easier on the addicts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 And it was dismissed indeed. It became a joke!Really, why would outright "execution" be mentioned other than to twist the logic behind what the poster was saying. And to bring out "ovens" in comparison to Nazi gas chambers? If there is any comparison to be made at all with those dreaded ovens....those disgusting "safe injection" sites really fit the bill! The Jews were lied into thinking they were just going to have a shower to rid themselves of lice and other vermins. Just like these brain-fried addicts AND THE SUPPORTING PUBLIC are being lied into thinking this is for the good of our society! So what do you think the Conservatives will propose as a solution aside from closing the site after this year? What would be your solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yam Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I suggested killing addicts because death was being talked about as a solution. The only reason it was dismissed was because it is messy. And it was dismissed indeed. It became a joke! Really, why would outright "execution" be mentioned other than to twist the logic behind what the poster was saying. And to bring out "ovens" in comparison to Nazi gas chambers? If there is any comparison to be made at all with those dreaded ovens....those disgusting "safe injection" sites really fit the bill! The Jews were lied into thinking they were just going to have a shower to rid themselves of lice and other vermins. Just like these brain-fried addicts AND THE SUPPORTING PUBLIC are being lied into thinking this is for the good of our society! im not kidding but i think you might have a point here. . . though horrifying as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I don't post here all that often, and usually the political commentary is relatively well informed and useful. But this thread... has revealed an ugy an ugly and uncompassionate side that is somewhat dismaying. I can attempt to dismiss it as sheer ignorance about the nature of addiction, but fear it is something more than that 'Daddyhominum has many truthful things to say in his post. Read it and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 And it was dismissed indeed. It became a joke! Really, why would outright "execution" be mentioned other than to twist the logic behind what the poster was saying. And to bring out "ovens" in comparison to Nazi gas chambers? If there is any comparison to be made at all with those dreaded ovens....those disgusting "safe injection" sites really fit the bill! The Jews were lied into thinking they were just going to have a shower to rid themselves of lice and other vermins. Just like these brain-fried addicts AND THE SUPPORTING PUBLIC are being lied into thinking this is for the good of our society! So what do you think the Conservatives will propose as a solution aside from closing the site after this year? What would be your solution? Solution to what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Solution to what? For drug addiction. You think it is strictly a law enforcement issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddyhominum Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 I have never met someone who remained addicted to drugs by choice.Drug and alcohol addiction is a vicious circle - the more you put into your system the more you crave it. Long time addicts have compulsion to use that overpowers their rational mind and they will do the craziest things to get a fix. They have about as much choice when it comes using as a wolf has a choice when it kills a deer. The only way to break this vicious circle is to _stop_ using. Once an addict is detoxified and the physical effect of the drugs are gone then the addict does have a choice. Understanding this distinction is the key to understanding what addiction is.Force an addict into a corner - offer them support and forgiveness if they clean up - promise them hell on earth if they refuse (and follow through). You will be surprised how effective that approach can be. That is how interventions work. Unfortunately, interventions don't work so well for people who live in a world where drug abuse is normal and accepted. As practiced, family and/or loved ones interventions are used to persuade an addict to go for treatment. AFAIK, interventions do not attempt to treat the addict directly. You may be thinking of school programs that instruct in the dangers, etc. of drug use as they are some times called interventions. Those programs have almost no long term benefit according to research. http://tinyurl.com/l7grk 1: J Drug Educ. 2005;35(3):233-53. Links Long-term impact of a district-wide school/community-based substance abuse prevention initiative on gateway drug use. * Lohrmann DK, Alter RJ, Greene R, Younoszai TM. Department of Applied Health Science, Indiana University, Bloomington 47405, USA. [email protected] "The intervention was effective in reducing cigarette and alcohol use over time and in suppressing marijuana use levels below national rates; however, these gains tended to erode in later high school grades." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 As practiced, family and/or loved ones interventions are used to persuade an addict to go for treatment. AFAIK, interventions do not attempt to treat the addict directly.Family interventions, when done properly, use a combination of support and threats of consequences to convince the addict to go to treatment. Interventions are not effective if they are simply yet another plea to stop using. The family and friends must come up with a concrete set of consequences which they will impose on the addict if the addict does not stop using. These consequences could include divorce, loss of job, ejection from the family, etc. Unfortunately, proper interventions take a lot of courage on the part of the friends and family and they are often rendered useless because the family does not follow through with the consequences if/when the addict goes back to using. They can also be rendered useless if the addict believes that they can always depend on the gov't via welfare, disability etc if they lose their family support.Many people that I know who are clean and sober today because of well planned and executed interventions. Addicts will generally not stop using unless they are forced to accept consequences that they don't want to accept. That is why shielding addicts from the consequences of their addiction will always prolong their addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Solution to what? For drug addiction. You think it is strictly a law enforcement issue? These drugs are illegal! So, there is nothing wrong with law enforcement....if we want to enforce the law! Well we do have rehab programs, don't we? There is already support in place for those who are already addicted. And there is ample information. The anti-drugs and AIDS campaign already going at it back-to-back! So it cannot be said that it is STRICTLY law enforcement only! I would like to see more effort in dis-couraging kids from EVEN TRYING drugs! Toughen up the FIRST offense! Scare the pants off those children! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 These drugs are illegal! So, there is nothing wrong with law enforcement....if we want to enforce the law! Well we do have rehab programs, don't we? There is already support in place for those who are already addicted. And there is ample information. The anti-drugs and AIDS campaign already going at it back-to-back! So it cannot be said that it is STRICTLY law enforcement only! I would like to see more effort in dis-couraging kids from EVEN TRYING drugs! Toughen up the FIRST offense! Scare the pants off those children! Never said there was anything wrong with law enforcement. Thought you believed rehab was a waste of money as well so that's why I was asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 These drugs are illegal! So, there is nothing wrong with law enforcement....if we want to enforce the law! Well we do have rehab programs, don't we? There is already support in place for those who are already addicted. And there is ample information. The anti-drugs and AIDS campaign already going at it back-to-back! So it cannot be said that it is STRICTLY law enforcement only! I would like to see more effort in dis-couraging kids from EVEN TRYING drugs! Toughen up the FIRST offense! Scare the pants off those children! Never said there was anything wrong with law enforcement. Thought you believed rehab was a waste of money as well so that's why I was asking. No, I didn't say rehab is a waste of money. Safe-injection sites are the duds! If we are to spend more money, I'd rather focus on prevention....than throw the money on those duds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Safe injections sights are silly I think. What are they for? To prevent people from using the same needles to prevent the spread of diseases like AIDS? If you ridiculous enough to use needles that might have been used by eithers just so you can blow off cash to get high on dangerous drugs is ridiculous. Make it a law that anyone can buy needles in their local pharmacy. If they've got money for heroin they've got money for needles. Then at least we can say some of the money is being used to support the local economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 No, I didn't say rehab is a waste of money. Safe-injection sites are the duds!If we are to spend more money, I'd rather focus on prevention....than throw the money on those duds. If it is a dud, why have the Conservatives kept it going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Sometime last year I've heard on the news of a different kind of program one Asian province had been using to prevent the spread of AIDS. I can't recall the name of the country though. The school children are taken on field trips....to a different kind of museum. This museum is all about AIDS. Apparently it really delivered all the nitty-gritty....right to a mummified remains of an AIDS victim. This province (once dealing with an alarming high rate of AIDS-related disease) had been boasting of the steadily declining rate of the disease...and they are attributing the success to this field trips. I don't know about the mummified remains....but I think, having a gruesome museum dedicated to drug abuse and AIDS that really gives all the gruesome visuals will have a more searing impact on the youth. This will de-glamorize this kind of lifestyle.....and show plain, stark-naked reality. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Sometime last year I've heard on the news of a different kind of program one Asian province had been using to prevent the spread of AIDS. I can't recall the name of the country though.The school children are taken on field trips....to a different kind of museum. This museum is all about AIDS. Apparently it really delivered all the nitty-gritty....right to a mummified remains of an AIDS victim. This province (once dealing with an alarming high rate of AIDS-related disease) had been boasting of the steadily declining rate of the disease...and they are attributing the success to this field trips. I don't know about the mummified remains....but I think, having a gruesome museum dedicated to drug abuse and AIDS that really gives all the gruesome visuals will have a more searing impact on the youth. This will de-glamorize this kind of lifestyle.....and show plain, stark-naked reality. What do you think? I'm all for it and I support stricter penalties for people who use these drugs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Sometime last year I've heard on the news of a different kind of program one Asian province had been using to prevent the spread of AIDS. I can't recall the name of the country though.The school children are taken on field trips....to a different kind of museum. This museum is all about AIDS. Apparently it really delivered all the nitty-gritty....right to a mummified remains of an AIDS victim. This province (once dealing with an alarming high rate of AIDS-related disease) had been boasting of the steadily declining rate of the disease...and they are attributing the success to this field trips. I don't know about the mummified remains....but I think, having a gruesome museum dedicated to drug abuse and AIDS that really gives all the gruesome visuals will have a more searing impact on the youth. This will de-glamorize this kind of lifestyle.....and show plain, stark-naked reality. What do you think? I have no idea. Hard to judge the success of a thing in isolation. It is like warnings on cigarette packages. Were they responsible for smoking reductions or was it banning it from the public places? Or was preventing it from being sold to kids important? I have no idea if the safe injection site is totally effective in getting addicts into rehab. I don't have the access to the data that federal government has. But would they have kept it open if there was evidence is was reponsible for hard reduction associated with needle drugs? Who knows. The Conservatives will have to have some sort of strategy. It has become a major problem. Law enforcement, rehab, education...whatever. All of it will be needed to try to get parts of Canada out the situation it is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 No, I didn't say rehab is a waste of money. Safe-injection sites are the duds! If we are to spend more money, I'd rather focus on prevention....than throw the money on those duds. If it is a dud, why have the Conservatives kept it going? A lady representing Conservatives (the Sunday before last on Question Period) said it is "being reviewed." Anyway...all political parties will do what they think they have to do. Unfortunately, appeasement is almost, always part of the equation now whenever a leader makes any decisions. And opportunism is just part of the arsenal of any political parties trying to push their agenda. Anyway, will you explain how providing "safe-injection sites" is supposed to be a SOLUTION TO DRUG ADDICTION? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 All of it will be needed to try to get parts of Canada out the situation it is in. Well, it may sound cold-hearted, but looking at it from a practical and realistical point of view....Canada should not spend too much effort in those who are already neck-deep in it. Instead, focus on those who are not yet victimized....the future would-be victims...who are highly impressionable: the youth. If there's a hole in the dam, there's no point in trying to scoop out the water that's already in. We start with plugging that hole! Then....we worry what to do with the water that's already in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 (edited) S Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Maybe they (the addicts) should get a little more ambitious and steal some more to get a hotel....I for one don't want subsidize someone else's addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hicksey Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 I believe that recreational drugs should not be illegal. How should I then vote on the question of safe injection sites? Can you even begin to understand the consequences of doing that? You think we have problems rehabilitating people now -- just wait. There are reasons we disallow things. If the costs to society outweigh the benefits, then it should disallowed. The costs of allowing drug use far outweigh the benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 I believe that recreational drugs should not be illegal. How should I then vote on the question of safe injection sites? Can you even begin to understand the consequences of doing that? You think we have problems rehabilitating people now -- just wait. There are reasons we disallow things. If the costs to society outweigh the benefits, then it should disallowed. The costs of allowing drug use far outweigh the benefits. My friends 14 year old daughter is now living with the consequence of ectasy use. Apparently the high came with group sex with an adult and herpes. Decriminalization may be appropriate for some drugs, and other not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.