TerrorStorm: Free movie

[Riverwind]

84 % now see 911 as an inside job, New York Times/CBS News poll

The poll question you quoted was:

"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

If I was asked that question I would likely say that the administration is hiding something but that does not in anyway mean that I believe 9/11 was staged. You are are attempting to draw conclusions from a poll which are not valid based on the question that was asked.

[Michael Hardner]

It was Chertoffs cousin that wrote the 911 debunker stuff for Popular Mechanics. But again, its not central to the arguement. I like to be more connected with physical evidence.

Chertoff Cousin

Before you go and discredit Alex Jones, he has millions of listeners and if you want to discredit him, call him up during his show. You will be put top the front of the line for call ins.

Jones has been doing this for ten years and pissing off a lot of people. If he was wrong about things his credibility would be destroyed. He cannot afford to be wrong about things like this.

That story has been addressed on 911myths.com. What do you think of that explanation ?

[Michael Hardner]

911myths.com on the Chertoff angle

Chertoff says:

I'm not related to Michael Chertoff, at least in any way I can figure out. We might be distant relatives, 15 times removed, but then again, so might you and I. Bottom line is I've never met him, never communicated with him, and nobody I know in my family has ever met or communicated with him.

As for what my mom said: When Chertoff was nominated to be head of homeland security it was the first I'd heard of him, and the same for my family (and, FYI, we'd already sent the 9/11 issue to the press by then!). My dad and I thought there might be some distant relation. When Chris Bollyn called and asked my mom if there was a relation (introducing himself as only "Chris"), she said "they might be distant cousins." Like much in the conspiracy world, this was taken WAY out of context. (Another case in point: Bollyn called me earlier and asked "Were you the senior researcher on the story?" I said, "I guess so," -- that's not a title I have ever used, nor is it at all common in magazine journalism, but I was the research editor at the time, so it kinda made sense.) Nonetheless, I was one of 9 reporters on the story, not counting editors, photo researchers, photo editors, copy editors, layout designers, production managers, fact-checkers, etc., etc., etc. who worked on this story.

[Canadian Blue]

PN, I think we just proved that your an idiot with that poll you posted. Do you think that question asked whether or not people believed the US was responsible for 9/11.

Allright, anybody else wanna get that tin foil hat.

[GostHacked]

Time to jump back into this thread.

Interesting read the past few pages. Kimmy is at least was throwing out some math. Kudos to her.

PolyNewbie. Advice : your tactics are not working to convnce anyone. Hell not even ME. And I am with you in the conspiracy camp. It's the way it is being presented by you with very little to back anything up. If you want to convince the general population that something really shaddy went down that day you, one needs to be more tactful in the responses. I can quote websites till the cows come home but, it won't convince people.

What you should be doing is to prove False Flag operations. The US has done it before, so you would be better off comparing 9/11 to any of those events and the eventual outcomes and results of said events. Where were we before and where are we now? Pearl Harbour for example is one used by Alex Jones and others to support 9/11 was an inside job. Basicly saying that the top US Navy brass were aware of the attack, but did nothing to prevent it. This provided the US with the oppourtunity to enter WWII which at that pointy the US had not wanted to go to war. But again, this provided the US with the 'duty' to combat evil in the world. Who better etter to do that than the US. I read as much as I can on this topic and have become well informed and even missinformed by both the official story and the conspiracy story.

Right now I am reading The 9/11 Investigations. Only 100 pages in so far. I could not get ahold of the 9/11 Commission report that day (sold out) so that is next weeks purchase. It does show intelligence failures to connect the dots in regards to Bin Laden and the Hijackers. Hell it loos like most of those hijackers were trained in the US flight schools and 4 of them were commercial pilot license holders.

Polynewbie. Change the tactics and how you word things. Since you are not really even convincing me by regurgitating the same stuff over and over from places you do not even provide reference links for, the argument fails and you look stupid.

Micheal Hardner and Kimmy. You two just keep on doing what you are doing in this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_law_of_thermodynamics

I can see where you are going with that argument and I understand it for the most part. A 'cold' fire cannot melt steel.

The fire was not hot enough in the buildings to melt the steel. For the temperature of the fire was less than the melting point (or even to the point where the steel will start to loose integrety). So the transfer of heat from a 'cold' fire to the steel beams would not have happened. It would balance out and everything would be a consistant temperature.

[Canadian Blue]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Conspiracy

PN, do you buy the anti-semitic theory behind 9/11 that it was an inside job as well. Seriously, maybe a breakdown in intelligence and counter terrorism. But I'd hope your mature and smart enough to realize the BS behind the conspiracy theories.

[KrustyKidd]

Jim Hoffman offers $1000.00 reward to anyone that can build a structure that will collapse straight down

A grand! Wow, I'll quit my day job and stat batching and pouring a million dollars worth of concrete to make that. Call you in a few years once I have a twenty something story highrise that I can destroy (without using any demolitions of course).

[bradco]

So I was walking around campus today and some morons have gone around writing in colourful chalk "9/11 Inside Job" all over the place. Have they closed a lot of mental hospitals throughout North America recently? This thread is a complete joke.

[kimmy]

You cannot be safer by not knowing the truth. Sooner or later the truth will find its way to you. Don't be the last person to see it.

84 % now see 911 as an inside job, New York Times/CBS News poll

You need to buy yourself a tin foil hat.

"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

Typical. Your conspiracy site left off the most important part of the question:

"When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?"

I'm among the 84% who believe they're lying about how much warning they had, but that's a long way from believing "it was an inside job."

Before you go and discredit Alex Jones, he has millions of listeners and if you want to discredit him, call him up during his show. You will be put top the front of the line for call ins.

Jones has been doing this for ten years and pissing off a lot of people. If he was wrong about things his credibility would be destroyed. He cannot afford to be wrong about things like this.

His popularity doesn't prove he's right about anything. All it proves is that there's a big market for nonsense, as Bill o'Reilly and Ann Coulter have been proving for years.

What else am I behind on here....

-energy to pulverize stuff? One of those basic math calculations I mentioned earlier showed the building coming down with far less kinetic energy than the potential energy it had when it was standing. The top portion alone, the portion of each tower that was above the plane impacts, would have potential energy equal to roughly 40,000 kilograms of dynamite, of which barely half is present as kinetic energy by the end of the crash. So where did the other 20,000 kg of dynamite worth of potential energy go? Pulverizing stuff. Apply the same method to the whole tower, and you'll probably find that potential energy equal to a small nuclear device has been spent on pulverizing stuff.

-why is Down the path of least resistance? Because the towers were built that way. They had two metal frames: a central column that primarily supports the weight, and the perimeter structure that withstands lateral force. Remember the part where GostHacked was mentioning that the towers were built strong enough to withstand hurricane-force winds blowing against them? That strength, that ability to withstand lateral force, means that falling over to one side would have taken a huge amount of force to push it over to one side. When the central column lost its structural strength, Down is the path of least resistance because most of the structure that was to resist lateral forces was still intact.

You guys persist on thinking of the tower like a tree where if you chop it on one side it should fall in that direction. But it's built a lot different from a tree.

Bleh. It goes on and on.

-k

[kimmy]

So I was walking around campus today and some morons have gone around writing in colourful chalk "9/11 Inside Job" all over the place. Have they closed a lot of mental hospitals throughout North America recently? This thread is a complete joke.

I'm not sure about mental hospitals, but I think that the way these kinds of theories keep popping up must say something fundamental about the human mind.

In ancient times there were all sorts of fanciful mythologies developed to explain the natural world. Later, the organized religions that now dominate our world, and in particular some of the adherents of those religions who are so influenced that their entire lives are focused by these beliefs.

And then there are the "new age" beliefs... people who believe that they can perform magic, obtain energy from crystals, and so on.

Long-time readers of MapleLeafWeb know that we get occasional visits from fervent believers in NESARA. And orgones. And chem-trails.

And on and on.

So ... why? What draws people to these ideas? People seem drawn to the unobservable, in forms ranging from the merely far-fectched to the fanciful to the strange to the demented to the utterly ridiculous.

Is it built in? Hard-wired? Does our desire to build these mythologies and cling to them serve some sort of biological purpose, like a role in building tribes?

-k

[PolyNewbie]

kimmy:So ... why? What draws people to these ideas? People seem drawn to the unobservable, in forms ranging from the merely far-fectched to the fanciful to the strange to the demented to the utterly ridiculous.

Things may appear that way to some people if they hear it often enough, but in reality the 911 truth movement is based on science and facts in the form of physical evidence. There is mountains of circumstantial evidence to support the hypothesis that the physical evidence supports - that the US government carried it out.

The official version is based on a fantasy that really doesn't actually have evidence to support it. Furthermore it is a rediculous story, anyone that didn't recognise that when it was first told must surely recognise it now. Most people that are argueing for the official version are set up to either not take legal responsibility for their work ar not attach their names to their work.

Probably more than 1/2 million people killed, expenditures in the trillions now (your grand kids will still be paying the interest on that), wide open borders and still no Bin Laden. The fact that the Mexican border is being left open is proof in itself that the war on terror is not real. If the war on terror isn't real then there must be no terrorists. If thats the case who attacked on Sept 11 th ? Why would they do that ? Have you yet noticed the police state that is developing around you ?

You should really wake up because even a casual knowledge of economics makes it quite clear that the economy is being destroyed too. Who would want to destroy the economy of the US ?

[Riverwind]

Things may appear that way to some people if they hear it often enough, but in reality the 911 truth movement is based on science and facts in the form of physical evidence. There is mountains of circumstantial evidence to support the hypothesis that the physical evidence supports - that the US government carried it out.

There is no physical evidence that proves the US gov't did any such thing. The only thing the conspirasy theorists have is a few physical phenomena which have not been adequately explained yet. The fact that no explaination exists at this time does not automatically mean that wild fantasies concocted by the conspirasy theorists are true.

[Charles Anthony]

There is no physical evidence that proves the US gov't did any such thing. The only thing the conspirasy theorists have is a few physical phenomena which have not been adequately explained yet.

Not entirely.

I want to know what happened to the debris and the wreckage. Where is it all?

Does anybody have credible links explaining what happened to it all?

[Michael Hardner]

Charles,

They carted it away and sold it for scrap.

[Riverwind]

They carted it away and sold it for scrap.

Probably because officials never expected that people would start inventing these bizarre theories about why the towers came down. If officials had realized that carting it away would simply add fuel to the conspiracy fire they likely would have keep the stuff around longer.

[Canadian Blue]

PN, if we are becoming a police state these conspiracy theories wouldn't be around. Your a bit paranpoid, I reccomend you get some treatment my friend, paranoia can hurt yourself, and people around you.

[Michael Hardner]

PN, if we are becoming a police state these conspiracy theories wouldn't be around. Your a bit paranpoid, I reccomend you get some treatment my friend, paranoia can hurt yourself, and people around you.

Google 'benjamin chertoff' and you will have to wade though about 70% of the pages that insist he's Michael Chertoff's cousin. This has been adamantly denied over and over again, yet it's still out there. So who is suppressing the truth ? It's a lot harder to squelch a rumour than it is to start one.

[PolyNewbie]

I don't know who did it but I suppose that it was a Straussian movement in the white house that took over starting with GW Bush. They were widely known as "the crazies" by people that were of the establishment in the White House.

The official story is rediculous. First they had no idea that this would or could happen, then it happens and a few days later they know exactly who it was with virtually no supporting evidence. The official story hasn't really changed since except for many different explanations about how wtc7 collapsed. A completely incompetent intelligence service that allowed this to happen then suddenly they become the Dick Tracy of the modern era in a matter of a few days.

If you look at facts and ignore spin the truth starts to set in. This is why the movement is growing, don't be the last to figure this all out.

[Charles Anthony]

They carted it away and sold it for scrap.

Probably because officials never expected that people would start inventing these bizarre theories about why the towers came down. If officials had realized that carting it away would simply add fuel to the conspiracy fire they likely would have keep the stuff around longer.

What "officials" have the authority to decide upon and the power to execute the destruction of evidence at a crime scene?

Granted, there may be a lot of bizarre theories out there but saying evidence from a crime scene was destroyed is not a conspiracy theory -- it is the truth.

Whoever they may be, such "officials" have a callous disregard for justice and a horrifying amount of power in Manhattan. If it was a mistake to cart off the scrap metal, it is mistakenly done quite fast. Non-conspiracy theoricists "add fuel to the conspiracy fire" by letting such "officials" off sooooo easily.

[Charles Anthony]

delete

[Wilber]

All the pictures I have seen of the collapse show it collapsing from the top down starting at the floors where the aircraft hit. Pretty fancy flying to plant those 767's right on the floors where those supposed explosives were put. If the Bush administration was so competent at pulling this off, how come they seem to screw everything else up. Just my thoughts.

[Charles Anthony]

they seem to screw everything else up.

Everything else, like what??

[Wilber]

they seem to screw everything else up.

Everything else, like what??

The Iraq fiasco for one. Diminishing the esteem much of the world held for the US for one more.

[Charles Anthony]

The Iraq fiasco for one. Diminishing the esteem much of the world held for the US for one more.

It seems like things are going tickety-boo for the Bush-anti-terror camp what with this new anti-habeas corpus law.

[Riverwind]

they seem to screw everything else up.

Everything else, like what??

The entire Iraq War from day one, Katrina, North Korea, Afghanistan, etc. The Bush administration is perhaps the most incompetent gov't that Americans have ever had.