Israel ambassador denounces federal Liberals

[Leafless]

Alan Baker Israel's envoy to Canada has denounced the Federal Liberals, Block Quebecois and other Quebec politicians for taking part in a pro-Lebanese rally in Montreal and aligning themselves in which he describes as "incited" Muslims who have taken over Canadian streets.

"Were seeing the leaders of opposition parties marching in Montreal under Hezbollah flags--Hezbollah which is a terrorist organization that has been outlawed by Canadian law."

I agree with Alan Baker.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...9e17&k=3702

[jbg]

Alan Baker Israel's envoy to Canada has denounced the Federal Liberals, Block Quebecois and other Quebec politicians for taking part in a pro-Lebanese rally in Montreal and aligning themselves in which he describes as "incited" Muslims who have taken over Canadian streets.

"Were seeing the leaders of opposition parties marching in Montreal under Hezbollah flags--Hezbollah which is a terrorist organization that has been outlawed by Canadian law."

I agree with Alan Baker.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...9e17&k=3702

It's hard not to. Only on Israel would people see the question as ambiguous.

I didn't realize that Canada had diplomatic ties with and an ambassador in Israel.

[jdobbin]

Alan Baker Israel's envoy to Canada has denounced the Federal Liberals, Block Quebecois and other Quebec politicians for taking part in a pro-Lebanese rally in Montreal and aligning themselves in which he describes as "incited" Muslims who have taken over Canadian streets.

"Were seeing the leaders of opposition parties marching in Montreal under Hezbollah flags--Hezbollah which is a terrorist organization that has been outlawed by Canadian law."

I agree with Alan Baker.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...9e17&k=3702

Which leader of the Liberals was marching in in Montreal?

[fellowtraveller]

Alan Baker Israel's envoy to Canada has denounced the Federal Liberals, Block Quebecois and other Quebec politicians for taking part in a pro-Lebanese rally in Montreal and aligning themselves in which he describes as "incited" Muslims who have taken over Canadian streets.

"Were seeing the leaders of opposition parties marching in Montreal under Hezbollah flags--Hezbollah which is a terrorist organization that has been outlawed by Canadian law."

I agree with Alan Baker.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...9e17&k=3702

Which leader of the Liberals was marching in in Montreal?

Baker did not state the leader of the Liberals was marching. They don't have a leader, unless you consider Bill Graham as the grand fromage. He did state correctly that a leader was there: Gilles Duceppe.

I also support Bakers denunciation.

I also applaud Irwin Cotler, a prominent Liberal, who had some supportive things t0o say about the stance of the Canadian Government of the Middle East. Good for him, I respect his courage.

[Black Dog]

How are the Liberal, NDP or Bloc members responsible for the flags other people are waving? If Gilles was flying the Hizbullah banner, I could see this guys point. But this is ridiculous, guilt by association crap. AN dof course, the ambassador can't resist slipping in what is my new favorite strawman.

"When faced with this type of barrage from the media community, from the streets, from the incited groups of Muslims that are running around the streets on the weekends, it's so refreshing and positive to see ... that the Canadian government supports Israel's right to defend itself against terrorism," he said.

I also got a kick out of this:

Charles McVety, president of the Canada Christian College, joined his two Jewish counterparts in calling for a national day of day of prayer on Aug. 20 to support Israel and a call for peace in the Middle East.

"It is impossible to say that I am a Christian and not love the Jewish people," said Mr. McVety, who is also the leader of Christians United for Israel (Canada), an offshoot of an American organization whose membership includes the conservative evangelists, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

Is Israel really so hard up for friends that they have to reach out to a group who believes that, when battle of Armageddon comes, Jews must either convert or burn in hell, and who regard the continued existence of the Jewish state as essential to bringing about the Apocolypse?

[jdobbin]

Baker did not state the leader of the Liberals was marching. They don't have a leader, unless you consider Bill Graham as the grand fromage. He did state correctly that a leader was there: Gilles Duceppe.

I also support Bakers denunciation.

I also applaud Irwin Cotler, a prominent Liberal, who had some supportive things t0o say about the stance of the Canadian Government of the Middle East. Good for him, I respect his courage.

There are several Liberals who have supported Israel's position. Anita Neville is another.

I don't think there is a Liberal out there supporting Hezbollah.

I have no idea what the NDP's stand is because they have taken the summer off.

[Leafless]

Baker did not state the leader of the Liberals was marching. They don't have a leader, unless you consider Bill Graham as the grand fromage. He did state correctly that a leader was there: Gilles Duceppe.

I also support Bakers denunciation.

I also applaud Irwin Cotler, a prominent Liberal, who had some supportive things t0o say about the stance of the Canadian Government of the Middle East. Good for him, I respect his courage.

There are several Liberals who have supported Israel's position. Anita Neville is another.

I don't think there is a Liberal out there supporting Hezbollah.

I have no idea what the NDP's stand is because they have taken the summer off.

Gosh, Senator Jerry Grafstein a long time Liberal organizer and influential party member says he doesn't know where the Liberals stand on the Mid- East crisis because their split.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Pag...orce_login=true

Further more the Federal Liberals have been supporting Hezbollah for years because it had placated certain interest groups for political support. It's only recently after 20 years as a terrorist organization that the Liberals banned Hezbollah in Canada.

See terrorist section in link below:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/2/parlbus/chambus...n019_1440-E.htm

[jdobbin]

Gosh, Senator Jerry Grafstein a long time Liberal organizer and influential party member says he doesn't know where the Liberals stand on the Mid- East crisis because their split.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Pag...orce_login=true

Further more the Federal Liberals have been supporting Hezbollah for years because it had placated certain interest groups for political support. It's only recently after 20 years as a terrorist organization that the Liberals banned Hezbollah in Canada.

See terrorist section in link below:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/2/parlbus/chambus...n019_1440-E.htm

If I recall, CSIS was the agency that was being looked to for the "terrorist" classification.

Hezbollah existed under Mulroney as well. The multi-party security committee could have classfied the group as a terrorist organization. I have no idea why they didn't or why CSIS didnt press the case years ago.

[Rue]

How are the Liberal, NDP or Bloc members responsible for the flags other people are waving?

As politicians they knew or ought to have known there would be people carrying flags and supporting a terrorist organization at this event and they had the moral obligation to leave once they determined this was the case precisely because they are elected officials and can not be seen directly or indirectly to advocate or support terrorist causes.

Please don't pretend they couldn't have left.

The point is politicians were their trying to get brownie points with potential voters and if these voters believe in terrorist organizations and want to spew off at the mouth about evil Zionists-no problem, these people vote right?

The difference between you and me is while I believe people have the right to freedom of speech, I also think politicians have an obligation to avoid engaging in any behaviour where terrorist groups are represented. This is no different then marching in a parade where some of the marchers choose to wave Swastika flags. If they had done that how fast do you think it would have taken for Gilles Duceppte to run away?

Gilles Duceppe and the Liberals at this parade were clearly trying to take advantage of anti-American and anti-Israel sentiment which is making the Tories unpopular in Quebec.

This is what politics is all about. Using people's pain and anger to get votes and of course conveniently looking the other way when they begin shouting hatred and condoning terrorism.

[Argus]

How are the Liberal, NDP or Bloc members responsible for the flags other people are waving? If Gilles was flying the Hizbullah banner, I could see this guys point. But this is ridiculous, guilt by association crap. AN dof course, the ambassador can't resist slipping in what is my new favorite strawman.

Hmm. I have to wonder what your reaction would be if Conservative party members and MPs were marching to protest - whatever - and a number of people in the crowd were holding aloft swaztika's and chanting "Heil Hitler"

No one here would try to make anything out of that, now would they?

[newbie]

I was wondering when Hitler was going to come up.

[cybercoma]

How are the Liberal, NDP or Bloc members responsible for the flags other people are waving? If Gilles was flying the Hizbullah banner, I could see this guys point. But this is ridiculous, guilt by association crap. AN dof course, the ambassador can't resist slipping in what is my new favorite strawman.

Hmm. I have to wonder what your reaction would be if Conservative party members and MPs were marching to protest - whatever - and a number of people in the crowd were holding aloft swaztika's and chanting "Heil Hitler"

No one here would try to make anything out of that, now would they?

Good comparison, considering the nazis wanted to exterminate the jews and so does hezbollah.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Harper's handling of this latest Mid-East crisis will prove to be another master stroke. Jewish voters will move in large numbers to the Conservatives due to his strong support of Israel on the issue.

Sad, sad day for the Liberals. They have looked lost and rudderless. Ignatieff's absence in the early days of the debate will come back to haunt him.

[betsy]

Harper's handling of this latest Mid-East crisis will prove to be another master stroke. Jewish voters will move in large numbers to the Conservatives due to his strong support of Israel on the issue.

Sad, sad day for the Liberals. They have looked lost and rudderless. Ignatieff's absence in the early days of the debate will come back to haunt him.

I think one or two Liberal MPs are leaving the party over this and moving to support the Conservatives.

The Liberals are a confused lot! They've always been....because the don't actually have a firm stance on anything. They always shift and sway...afraid of losing votes.

[jbg]

Harper's handling of this latest Mid-East crisis will prove to be another master stroke. Jewish voters will move in large numbers to the Conservatives due to his strong support of Israel on the issue.

Sad, sad day for the Liberals. They have looked lost and rudderless. Ignatieff's absence in the early days of the debate will come back to haunt him.

I think one or two Liberal MPs are leaving the party over this and moving to support the Conservatives.

The Liberals are a confused lot! They've always been....because the don't actually have a firm stance on anything. They always shift and sway...afraid of losing votes.

I rarely leave entire double quotes intact but this time I am, for emphasis. Both are good points.

For some issues, particularly moral ones, fence-sitting is just not an option.

[Yaro]

For some issues, particularly moral ones, fence-sitting is just not an option.

The moral thing to do would be to move troops into Lebanon to fight the IDF, but I don't think that will happen so what are you gonna do?

Harper's handling of this latest Mid-East crisis will prove to be another master stroke. Jewish voters will move in large numbers to the Conservatives due to his strong support of Israel on the issue.

There is no doubt that making an enemy of the Jewish lobby in Canada is a politically dangerous maneuver, moral but dangerous.

[jbg]

There is no doubt that making an enemy of the Jewish lobby in Canada is a politically dangerous maneuver, moral but dangerous.

I'm not sure that the Jewish lobby is different from any other lobby. Please explain.

[Argus]

For some issues, particularly moral ones, fence-sitting is just not an option.

The moral thing to do would be to move troops into Lebanon to fight the IDF, but I don't think that will happen so what are you gonna do?

The moral thing to do is to fight alongside Nazis to kill Jews?

Harper's handling of this latest Mid-East crisis will prove to be another master stroke. Jewish voters will move in large numbers to the Conservatives due to his strong support of Israel on the issue.

There is no doubt that making an enemy of the Jewish lobby in Canada is a politically dangerous maneuver, moral but dangerous.

I take it you have a problem with Jews.

[Yaro]

I'm not sure that the Jewish lobby is different from any other lobby. Please explain.

The Jewish lobby is most certainly different and far more active, with organizations like Honest Reporting, which solely exist for the purpose of insuring pro-Israeli spin and programs like http://giyus.org/ which exists for the purpose of manipulating public opinion polls in Israel's favor there simply is no lobby as active in manipulation public opinion and politicians as the pro-Israel one.

Also witness the current dispute between the BBC and the Israeli foreign ministry which has recently accused it of biased reporting. Although the Israeli government would provide no specific examples it noted that the BBC was the only western media source which refused to have their work ok'd by the Israeli government before using it. Israel is currently considering revoking the BBC's press credentials in Israel over it. Nothing like a little mind numbingly overt censorship.

Really I could go on for a while here, perhaps talking about the Asner families overt support of Israel, and the statements of the old head of the family that there paper would always support Israel. But what’s the point, the information is out there for anyone that wants to find it.

The moral thing to do is to fight alongside Nazis to kill Jews?

If any country on earth has been emulating the Nazi's over the last 50 years its been Israel, the systematic genocide and slow crawl of a land grab against the Palestinians combined with the apartheid government of Israel makes it painfully apparent that your incredibly ignorant on the topic of the middle east and your credibility would probably be better served with silence on the issue.

I take it you have a problem with Jews.

Not really, not anymore then I have a problem with religion in general. I do however have a problem with Israel, and its supporters which given the religiously homogenous style of government in Israel consists mostly of self identified "Jewish groups".

[Canuck E Stan]

Not really, not anymore then I have a problem with religion in general. I do however have a problem with Israel, and its supporters which given the religiously homogenous style of government in Israel consists mostly of self identified "Jewish groups".

How is this different from all the governments in the middle east controlled by religion?

Admit it, you hate Jews.

[Yaro]

How is this different from all the governments in the middle east controlled by religion?

Admit it, you hate Jews.

So which other country are you talking about? I am not aware of any other country in the world currently where your religion determines your ability to move between cities and your ability to own land.

Admit it, your an ignoramus.

[kimmy]

I was wondering when Hitler was going to come up.

Hitler's an extreme example, but Argus's point is still fair. Conservative MPs and candidates have been pilloried for attending rallies or events that were attended by Christian extremists and Alberta separatists and anti-abortion activists.

Is the "guilt by association crap" that Black Dog bemoans really crap, or does that depend on who's doing the associating?

Harper's handling of this latest Mid-East crisis will prove to be another master stroke. Jewish voters will move in large numbers to the Conservatives due to his strong support of Israel on the issue.

Both of them?

I jest. But Muslim voters outnumber Jewish voters in Canada by a considerable margin, and if this becomes a wedge issue in an upcoming election, it's not going to split things in a way that Conservatives like.

-kimmy

[Argus]

I'm not sure that the Jewish lobby is different from any other lobby. Please explain.

The Jewish lobby is most certainly different and far more active, with organizations like Honest Reporting, which solely exist for the purpose of insuring pro-Israeli spin and programs like http://giyus.org/ which exists for the purpose of manipulating public opinion polls in Israel's favor there simply is no lobby as active in manipulation public opinion and politicians as the pro-Israel one.

The pro-Israel lobby needs to be more active because the opposition to Israel is so great among hate-mongers, anti-semites, leftists and Arabs. The UN is an anti-Jewish organiztion with 56 Muslim states and an alliance of bribed third-world pest holes eager to vote to denounce Israel at the drop of a hat. There is a massive amount of anti-semitic, anti-Israeli swill put out there from the Muslim world alone, some of which lazy, politically correct, anti-semitic reporters repeat without a second thought.

Also witness the current dispute between the BBC and the Israeli foreign ministry which has recently accused it of biased reporting

Lots of people do.

the Israeli government would provide no specific examples it noted that the BBC was the only western media source which refused to have their work ok'd by the Israeli government before using it. Israel is currently considering revoking the BBC's press credentials in Israel over it. Nothing like a little mind numbingly overt censorship.

I like how there was a big outcry when the Israeli government refused to grand press credentials to some Palestinian who was workign for NBC or suchlike, with the "world media" boycotting events and demanding the Israeli government not limit freedom of the press. Somewhere in the midst of it it emerged that the Palestinian Authority had promised that any Israeli media people caught in its territory would be executed.

The world press ignored that. Just as it ignores the draconion violations of press freedom and human rights in ALL Arab nations.

The moral thing to do is to fight alongside Nazis to kill Jews?

If any country on earth has been emulating the Nazi's over the last 50 years its been Israel,

Because, like, they fight back when people attack them, right? Dirty Jews! Because they like to attack their weaker neighbours and take their land? But uhm, why haven't they taken land from Syria and Lebanon and Jordan? It would be easy. Because they have concentration camps where they kill millions? List them. Is is their free press, independant court system or democracy which makes them like Nazis? Israel is nowhere near the top of the list of worst human rights violaters. It is not even ON the list of nations which have behaved most barbariously over the last fifty years. Though Iran would certainly be. It has done nothing much but defend itself. The only thing Israel is the worst at over the last 50 years is having too many Jews.

Perhaps that's your problem with them.

the systematic genocide

Sputtering drivel. If it's genocide it's the slowest in history, as the Arab populations continue to grow in size in all nations, and within Israel itself. Do you even know what the term means? Ever used a dictionary?

and slow crawl of a land grab against the Palestinians combined with the apartheid government of Israel

Arab Israelis are second class citizens. But what really must make your teeth grind is that they still enjoy far, far and away more human and civil rights than ANY Arabs outside Israel.

[Argus]

How is this different from all the governments in the middle east controlled by religion?

Admit it, you hate Jews.

So which other country are you talking about? I am not aware of any other country in the world currently where your religion determines your ability to move between cities and your ability to own land.

So you've decided you can pick out one particular aspect of Israel and wave it aloft without context to try and justify your hatred? The restrictions on movement within Israel are at least partly based on Muslim terrorism, and partly on keeping riots from breaking out. There are areas Jews aren't allowed to own land either. But certainly religion controls ownership to some degree. On the other hand, you can have sex in Israel without being beaten to death by the religious police. Israeli girls who get pregnant aren't hanged by the courts as in Iran. Israeli schoolgirls can flee a burning building without being forced back in to die because their faces aren't covered. Homosexuals in Israel aren't executed or imprisoned. And the government doesn't allow clerics to completely control all aspect of life, as in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Sudan.

None of that, oddly, seems to bother you at all. Is it because there are no Jews in those countries?