Israel/Lebanon

[JMH]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Israel is surrounded by nations that either hate them or pray to Allah for there complete anialation.

If I was running such a country, I simply wouldn't allow my borders to be penetrated by anyone.....................period. The borders in all directions would be heavily militerized at all times. Lets face it, were not talking about Canada/U.S. here, were talking about a border that spans 40 miles on the northern front. To make things more clear, were talking about a country that produces (yes, mozza ball soup, gaffelta fish etc.) more soldiers per capita than any nation in the world, that are armed with the latest killing machines know to mankind.

So here is my point: How can Israel justify the complete and indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon, because two (2) of its precious soldiers (combatants) are taken prisoner due to their own lax security measures on their own border. It's their own F'ing fault. If a family "out for a stroll" were the victims, that would be a different story............these were soldiers, with loaded assault weapons and obviously lacking support. A mistake by Israel and its command structure within the military.

THE FAULT LAYES SQUARELY UPON ISRAEL.........does it not?

I'm tired of watching innocent people being bombed into the stone age, so Israel can somehow "justify" this disspicable display of intolerance. Their behaviour is in-line with only ONE OTHER NATION: the U.S.A..

Curious. The "born again drunk" strikes again. Anyway, it's infuriating.

On a different note: Every Canadian taken out of Lebanon should be charged for it. There is no justification what so ever, to have Canadian taxpayers "flip the bill" given the state of affairs in the middle east in general: if you want to visit/live in these areas while holding a Canadian passport........you're on your own.

Perhaps bringing "MOMMA" to Canada for a visit is a more sensible solution as opposed to taking yourself and children to the middle east..........you dummies.

[geoffrey]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Two soliders got kidnapped by terrorists, root cause.

Israel is surrounded by nations that either hate them or pray to Allah for there complete anialation.

The Christian/French group in Lebanon is far more powerful politically and is calling for peace. Until Israel kicked all the Palestinians out of Palestine, Lebanon was predominately Christian Francophones.

From wiki unfortunately:

Until the outbreak of the Lebanese Civil War, Beirut, the capital of Lebanon, was noted for its wide boulevards, French-style architecture, and modernity, and was called "the Paris of the Middle East." Lebanon as a whole was known as the Switzerland of the Middle East (Swisra Ash Shark), enjoying a similar conflict-free status as Costa Rica in Central America and (until recently) Uruguay in South America.

Then the Syrians and Iranians came in and had to mess it all up. None the less, 90% of Lebanese don't support Hezbollah.

So here is my point: How can Israel justify the complete and indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon, because two (2) of its precious soldiers (combatants) are taken prisoner due to their own lax security measures on their own border. It's their own F'ing fault. If a family "out for a stroll" were the victims, that would be a different story............these were soldiers, with loaded assault weapons and obviously lacking support. A mistake by Israel and its command structure within the military.

Well, Israel has a right to attempt to rescue their soliders through military means, and to definitely capture and prosecute the terrorists. They also have a right to take out those firing missles across their border.

THE FAULT LAYES SQUARELY UPON ISRAEL.........does it not?

No, Hezbollah definitely is at fault for starting the conflict. Israel is at fault for escalating it and drawing in the civilians.

I'm tired of watching innocent people being bombed into the stone age, so Israel can somehow "justify" this disspicable display of intolerance. Their behaviour is in-line with only ONE OTHER NATION: the U.S.A..

Curious. The "born again drunk" strikes again. Anyway, it's infuriating.

Not at all, the US is far cleaner in it's operations. Not to mention they don't purposely attack civilians to punish them and send a message through destruction of infrastucture. The US is a model for keeping war as clean as war can be. Israel is not.

On a different note: Every Canadian taken out of Lebanon should be charged for it. There is no justification what so ever, to have Canadian taxpayers "flip the bill" given the state of affairs in the middle east in general: if you want to visit/live in these areas while holding a Canadian passport........you're on your own.

Perhaps bringing "MOMMA" to Canada for a visit is a more sensible solution as opposed to taking yourself and children to the middle east..........you dummies.

I supposed if another Cuban revolution happened and you were vacationing at Club Med you'd be ok to be left for dead? Lebanon was peaceful until the kidnappings, people lived normal lives like us... why not go there? I hear the mountain biking is off the wall awesome too. They should be rescued, though a fee should be charged. Not a fee that would prevent someone from being rescued, but at least recover some of the costs for us.

[GostHacked]

geoffrey

Not at all, the US is far cleaner in it's operations. Not to mention they don't purposely attack civilians to punish them and send a message through destruction of infrastucture. The US is a model for keeping war as clean as war can be. Israel is not.

This was the funniest thing I have read today so far. The US is a model for keeping war as clean as possible? I have not seen any evidence of that. Ever.

[newbie]

Two soliders got kidnapped by terrorists, root cause.

Unless you consider this

[JMH]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Two soliders got kidnapped by terrorists, root cause.

Israel is surrounded by nations that either hate them or pray to Allah for there complete anialation.

The Christian/French group in Lebanon is far more powerful politically and is calling for peace. Until Israel kicked all the Palestinians out of Palestine, Lebanon was predominately Christian Francophones.

From wiki unfortunately:

Until the outbreak of the Lebanese Civil War, Beirut, the capital of Lebanon, was noted for its wide boulevards, French-style architecture, and modernity, and was called "the Paris of the Middle East." Lebanon as a whole was known as the Switzerland of the Middle East (Swisra Ash Shark), enjoying a similar conflict-free status as Costa Rica in Central America and (until recently) Uruguay in South America.

Then the Syrians and Iranians came in and had to mess it all up. None the less, 90% of Lebanese don't support Hezbollah.

So here is my point: How can Israel justify the complete and indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon, because two (2) of its precious soldiers (combatants) are taken prisoner due to their own lax security measures on their own border. It's their own F'ing fault. If a family "out for a stroll" were the victims, that would be a different story............these were soldiers, with loaded assault weapons and obviously lacking support. A mistake by Israel and its command structure within the military.

Well, Israel has a right to attempt to rescue their soliders through military means, and to definitely capture and prosecute the terrorists. They also have a right to take out those firing missles across their border.

THE FAULT LAYES SQUARELY UPON ISRAEL.........does it not?

No, Hezbollah definitely is at fault for starting the conflict. Israel is at fault for escalating it and drawing in the civilians.

I'm tired of watching innocent people being bombed into the stone age, so Israel can somehow "justify" this disspicable display of intolerance. Their behaviour is in-line with only ONE OTHER NATION: the U.S.A..

Curious. The "born again drunk" strikes again. Anyway, it's infuriating.

Not at all, the US is far cleaner in it's operations. Not to mention they don't purposely attack civilians to punish them and send a message through destruction of infrastucture. The US is a model for keeping war as clean as war can be. Israel is not.

On a different note: Every Canadian taken out of Lebanon should be charged for it. There is no justification what so ever, to have Canadian taxpayers "flip the bill" given the state of affairs in the middle east in general: if you want to visit/live in these areas while holding a Canadian passport........you're on your own.

Perhaps bringing "MOMMA" to Canada for a visit is a more sensible solution as opposed to taking yourself and children to the middle east..........you dummies.

I supposed if another Cuban revolution happened and you were vacationing at Club Med you'd be ok to be left for dead? Lebanon was peaceful until the kidnappings, people lived normal lives like us... why not go there? I hear the mountain biking is off the wall awesome too. They should be rescued, though a fee should be charged. Not a fee that would prevent someone from being rescued, but at least recover some of the costs for us.

where do I start? 1. Two soldiers...........bummer.

2. French catholics had the political power? thats just incorect.

3. I worked thoughout the middle east for many years, and can honestly say that dumping this problem on Syria and Iran is, simplistic. Roughly 30% of Lebonese supported Hezbollah before this quagmire, I susspect their support is growing exponentially as we speak.

4. As a matter of fact, Israel has no right whatsoever to invade the sovereign nation of Lebanon unless it officially declares war. Thus far, Israel is conducting illegal warefare wich is commonly refered to as TERRORISM in the international court. Furthermore, I can assure you that Israeli ground forces

are not capable of waltzing in and finding their soldiers even IF that were the issue instead of the conveniant excuse it has become.

5. Drawing in civilians? Perhaps you mean murdering civilians. Israel is privy to the finest sattelite inteligence known to man -in real time (thanks U.S.A) and know precisely, the location of all launches of munitions leaving Lebanon; Beirut is not a factor. Israel wants those rockets flying as much as Hezbolalh....... if they stop, they can't continue their "cleansing" of the region. The world wouldn't allow it.

Unguided Rockets that actually hit something 4% of the time are a godsend for the Israeli Gov. right now.

6. The U.S. has an abhorent record concerning civilian casualties. Iraq, being only the latest example. U.S. "smart" weapons (contrary to what you may believe) are not designed to minimize civi-casualties. They were developed to minimize damage to infrastucture and hence, trim the "bottom line" concerning the rebuild of conquered nations. Hell, they can't even stop dropping ordinance on their own allies/troops.

7. CUBA? Yes, if you are a citizen of the U.S. (the only country in the world that has a problem with this former CIA trained freedom fighter) I would easily say, that this place may not be for you..........and so, you are on your own. This is especialy problematic because you dont have the option of EASILY WALKING 28 miles to safety unless of course you "pull a Jesus" ,and its been a long time since the last reported case worked out.

BUT, if it did happen and I was there.........you bet.........I'm on my own. People have to take resposability for their own lives. Canada has a great deal on its plate and baby-sitting shouldn't be one of them.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I just don't get some people. Lets turn the tables around here. If Israel crossed the border and kidnapped two combatants and killed four others, then began a campaign of rocket attacks against the citizens of that nation would you say that Israel was innocent?

[JMH]

I just don't get some people. Lets turn the tables around here. If Israel crossed the border and kidnapped two combatants and killed four others, then began a campaign of rocket attacks against the citizens of that nation would you say that Israel was innocent?

IF Israel crossed its borders? They ROUTINELY cross into other nations sovereign territory. This is the seventh time in 30 years that they've become unwanted guests in Lebanon alone. This behavior, has become one of the primary reasons for instability in the region. If that isn't bad enough, the Mossad has been assasinating people worldwide for 40+ years.

Israel does not ,and will not make peace unless it is ENTIRELY on its own terms. They refuse to compromise on any front.........and this B.S. about them leaving occupied territorries is just that..... B.S.! They are not to be there in the first place! ......IT'S NOT THEIR LAND!.

In conclusion, my point is that Israel is fully capable of holding its borders, and givin their situation, they have a responsability to their people to do so. In this case, they DID NOT. As a result, bad things happened and they are now playing "the wounded partridge" and using it as an excuse to KILL AS MANY PEOPLE THAT DONT LIKE THEM........AS POSSIBLE. It's BLATANT.

Israels' response, has been ridiculous. Not suprising considering the country is run by a group of biggoted "bitter old men" from the military. If they could get away with it, they would NUKE every arab on the planet. Sound familiar?

Hezbolla, Hammas, Al Quaida, Israel; there is no difference. They're all a bunch of angry religious "wack- jobs" . I would go so far to say that, the people of Israel are probably tired of their own leadership and the sledge-hammer diplomacy that results.

[Argus]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Israel is surrounded by nations that either hate them or pray to Allah for there complete anialation.

If I was running such a country, I simply wouldn't allow my borders to be penetrated by anyone.....................period. The borders in all directions would be heavily militerized at all times. Lets face it, were not talking about Canada/U.S. here, were talking about a border that spans 40 miles on the northern front. To make things more clear, were talking about a country that produces (yes, mozza ball soup, gaffelta fish etc.) more soldiers per capita than any nation in the world, that are armed with the latest killing machines know to mankind.

All of which is pretty much true. Which is odd given everything you write after this is such utter mindless drivel

So here is my point: How can Israel justify the complete and indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon,

Well, since there an absolute mountain of evidence they're doing no such thing I shouldn't think much justification is necessary. I'm quite tired, really, of these panicky, wide-eyed, knowledge free posts wherein people see some rubble on television and run pell-mell to their computer to tell me how horrified they are at the awesome slaughter and blitzkreik and genocide and indescriminate bombing and murder in Lebanon. Grow up. Learn a little history. Try and buy a sense of reality. Investigate the possiblity of placing things into context.

Six hundred children are dying every day in Congo, according to UNICEF.

Ten thousand people are killed every month in Darfur.

There are countless other intercine struggles around the world right now taking more lives than this little spat in Lebanon.

What is happening in Lebanon is small change indeed.

You are seeing it every day on television, and so seem to believe it's some kind of massive, end-of-the-world nightmarish struggle for survival. But it's only big news because there are lots of comfortable hotels and restaurants nearby for the international press to relax in, and because it involves Israel, which the modern liberal left has come to despise.

because two (2) of its precious soldiers (combatants) are taken prisoner due to their own lax security measures on their own border.

Rather, because Hezbollah has been firing rockets into Israel for months now, and then because, in a carefully archestrated attack, two Israeli soldiers (I have seen information they aren't even Jews) were kidnapped, and a huge IED was set along with an ambush for the inevitable rescuers during which eight Israelis were killed. One of them, btw, was a Canadian, if that matters to you.

THE FAULT LAYES SQUARELY UPON ISRAEL.........does it not?

The most apt comparison to this is to say that the rape victim is at fault for being attractive.

I'm tired of watching innocent people being bombed into the stone age,

Then stop watching the news. If you have no ability to place things into context and no way of understanding the underlying reasons for conflict then go and play video games. You'll feel better.

so Israel can somehow "justify" this disspicable display of intolerance.

I too am intolerant of having my people murdered. Fancy that. I admire your tolerance. Can I come over and kill some friends of yours later on today?

[Argus]

Two soliders got kidnapped by terrorists, root cause.

Unless you consider this

As I recall, subsequent investigations seemed to show this was not shelling at all, but some kind of explosive device, ie a mine, and probably didn't even come from Israel.

[jdobbin]

As I recall, subsequent investigations seemed to show this was not shelling at all, but some kind of explosive device, ie a mine, and probably didn't even come from Israel.

I think even the Israeli press discounted that possibilty. However, if you have found that this was the final conclusion, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

[Argus]

I just don't get some people. Lets turn the tables around here. If Israel crossed the border and kidnapped two combatants and killed four others, then began a campaign of rocket attacks against the citizens of that nation would you say that Israel was innocent?

IF Israel crossed its borders? They ROUTINELY cross into other nations sovereign territory. This is the seventh time in 30 years that they've become unwanted guests in Lebanon alone. This behavior, has become one of the primary reasons for instability in the region.

Attacks on Israel are the reason for instability in the region and always have been. Israel crosses its borders for one reason and one reason only; to get at those who use neighbouring nations, primarily Lebanon, as bases to attack Israel. The answer to stability is quite easy. Those nations need to stop people from using their land to attack Israel. Syria learned this, so did Egypt. Their borders with Israel are quiet and peaceful. They don't allow people to use their territory to attack Israel.

If that isn't bad enough, the Mossad has been assasinating people worldwide for 40+ years.

Israel has been assasinating terrorists who engage in war against Israeli civilians, who hijack Israeli aircraft and murder passengerse, who organize suicide bombings in Israeli pizza shops, and who, unfortunately, are often well-received around the world and kept safe from judicial punishment.

Hezbolla, Hammas, Al Quaida, Israel; there is no difference. They're all a bunch of angry religious "wack- jobs" .

What unadulterated crap. Israel is a free democracy with a free press and independant judicial system which only wants to be left alone. I don't think that's much to ask for. The others are terrorist groups which are intent on destroying Israel and pushing all the Jews out of the middle east. If Lebanon, for example, was to throw away its weapons and really call for peace and brotherhood with Israel the Israelis would be overjoyed. If Israelis threw away their weapons and called for peace and brotherhood with their neighbours Hezbollah and Hamas would slaughter them.

[Argus]

As I recall, subsequent investigations seemed to show this was not shelling at all, but some kind of explosive device, ie a mine, and probably didn't even come from Israel.

I think even the Israeli press discounted that possibilty. However, if you have found that this was the final conclusion, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

I don't think anyone has established guilt beyond doubt, but everyone seems to assume it was Israel regardless.

Honest Reporting

[jdobbin]

I don't think anyone has established guilt beyond doubt, but everyone seems to assume it was Israel regardless.

Honest Reporting

The link makes a claim but it doesn't show what the Israeli papers or IDF investigation itself concluded. Also, I haven't seen anything in the mainstream media that mentions fragments that were not Israeli made.

[Argus]

A very good take on the media spin and world attitude on Israel.

You could criticise Israel's recent attack for many things. Some argue that it is disproportionate, or too indiscriminate. Others think that it is ill-planned militarily. Others hold that it will give more power to extremists in the Arab world, and will hamper a wider peace settlement. These are all reasonable, though not necessarily correct positions to hold. But European discourse on the subject seems to have been overwhelmed by something else - a narrative, told most powerfully by the way television pictures are selected, that makes Israel out as a senseless, imperialist, mass-murdering, racist bully.

Not only is this analysis wrong - if the Israelis are such imperialists, why did they withdraw from Lebanon for six years, only returning when threatened once again? How many genocidal regimes do you know that have a free press and free elections? - it is also morally imbecilic. It makes no distinction between the tough, sometimes nasty things all countries do when hard-pressed and the profoundly evil intent of some ideologies and regimes. It says nothing about the fanaticism and the immediacy of the threat to Israel. Sir Peter has somehow managed to live on this planet for 75 years without spotting the difference between what Israel is doing in Lebanon and "unlimited war".

As well as being morally imbecilic, this narrative is the enemy of all efforts to understand what is actually going on in the Middle East. It is so lazy.

The Telegraph

[Figleaf]

I just don't get some people. Lets turn the tables around here. If Israel crossed the border and kidnapped two combatants and killed four others, then began a campaign of rocket attacks against the citizens of that nation would you say that Israel was innocent?

It seems that generally, when Israel does things of that kind, people like Bush, Blair, and Likud all proclaim Israel's innocence.

[JMH]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Israel is surrounded by nations that either hate them or pray to Allah for there complete anialation.

If I was running such a country, I simply wouldn't allow my borders to be penetrated by anyone.....................period. The borders in all directions would be heavily militerized at all times. Lets face it, were not talking about Canada/U.S. here, were talking about a border that spans 40 miles on the northern front. To make things more clear, were talking about a country that produces (yes, mozza ball soup, gaffelta fish etc.) more soldiers per capita than any nation in the world, that are armed with the latest killing machines know to mankind.

All of which is pretty much true. Which is odd given everything you write after this is such utter mindless drivel

So here is my point: How can Israel justify the complete and indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon,

Well, since there an absolute mountain of evidence they're doing no such thing I shouldn't think much justification is necessary. I'm quite tired, really, of these panicky, wide-eyed, knowledge free posts wherein people see some rubble on television and run pell-mell to their computer to tell me how horrified they are at the awesome slaughter and blitzkreik and genocide and indescriminate bombing and murder in Lebanon. Grow up. Learn a little history. Try and buy a sense of reality. Investigate the possiblity of placing things into context.

Six hundred children are dying every day in Congo, according to UNICEF.

Ten thousand people are killed every month in Darfur.

There are countless other intercine struggles around the world right now taking more lives than this little spat in Lebanon.

What is happening in Lebanon is small change indeed.

You are seeing it every day on television, and so seem to believe it's some kind of massive, end-of-the-world nightmarish struggle for survival. But it's only big news because there are lots of comfortable hotels and restaurants nearby for the international press to relax in, and because it involves Israel, which the modern liberal left has come to despise.

because two (2) of its precious soldiers (combatants) are taken prisoner due to their own lax security measures on their own border.

Rather, because Hezbollah has been firing rockets into Israel for months now, and then because, in a carefully archestrated attack, two Israeli soldiers (I have seen information they aren't even Jews) were kidnapped, and a huge IED was set along with an ambush for the inevitable rescuers during which eight Israelis were killed. One of them, btw, was a Canadian, if that matters to you.

THE FAULT LAYES SQUARELY UPON ISRAEL.........does it not?

The most apt comparison to this is to say that the rape victim is at fault for being attractive.

I'm tired of watching innocent people being bombed into the stone age,

Then stop watching the news. If you have no ability to place things into context and no way of understanding the underlying reasons for conflict then go and play video games. You'll feel better.

so Israel can somehow "justify" this disspicable display of intolerance.

I too am intolerant of having my people murdered. Fancy that. I admire your tolerance. Can I come over and kill some friends of yours later on today?

Speaking of mindless drivel.

I guess "your people" have it all worked out. Suddenly, after 40+ years of "mindless drivel", you'll get things right? Show me.

What have you done right? .........apart from nothing. Israel acts as the spoiled child of the U.S. like a bunch of sacred babies.

Somebody hits Israel with ordanance that is akin with a "sling-shot" in its accuracy, and the cruise missiles fly. Big brother offers sattelite imagry so you can defeat the evil ones...........and you still can't be decent............you have to kill as many as you can.

I was in the region as a soldier for over 12 years, so don't bullshit me about the peacefull nature of the Israeli government. Their ruthless and dispicable intrusions in to other territories was both common and joyfull with the troops I met. Killing a Palestinion man/woman at long range was quite a laugh amongst the troops...........a contest if you will. Supper was brought to them and they were pampered.

I never encountered that on the other side. They were simple people that would avenge these killings if they could .........believe me.......IF THEY COULD!

Think of that drivel. Perhaps its worth noting that all Israeli agression in the region has acomplished nothing............as a matter of fact , it has created war........again and again.

You spoiled little babies don't have a clue do you?

As far as you attacking my freinds? Go for it! I can stay within my borders and make you disappear.

[Argus]

Somebody hits Israel with ordanance that is akin with a "sling-shot" in its accuracy, and the cruise missiles fly.

Meh. Give me your address and I'll see if I can have some katusha rockets fired into your street. Then get back to us and compare the to sling-shots.

Big brother offers sattelite imagry so you can defeat the evil ones...........and you still can't be decent............you have to kill as many as you can.

Satellite imagery isn't like what you see in the movies, you know. It's not that easy to pick out a terrorist with a rifle in the midst of a thousand square miles of roads, villages, factories, and hilly scrubland.

I was in the region as a soldier for over 12 years,

Oh? In whose army?

so don't bullshit me about the peacefull nature of the Israeli government. Their ruthless and dispicable intrusions in to other territories was both common and joyfull with the troops I met. Killing a Palestinion man/woman at long range was quite a laugh amongst the troops...........a contest if you will. Supper was brought to them and they were pampered.

This sounds like hysterical babbling, close to hate-speech, and more than slightly unlikely. Israeli troops don't need to go into Jordan, or into Syria, or into Egypt, because those nations don't attack Israel and don't allow people to use their land as a base for attack. That in itself shows that Israel will leave people alone if they leave it alone. The Lebanese and Pallestinians need to stop attacking Israeli border posts, stop having people flying over, digging under or swimming around Israeli border defences so they can kill Jews, and stop firing off mortars and missiles at Israel. It really is THAT simple.

Perhaps its worth noting that all Israeli agression in the region has acomplished nothing.

On the contrary. It has kept Israel safe and alive. A better statement would be all the Arab agression and attacks over the decades have accomplished nothing.

[Drea]

I'm shocked that nobody in the media seems to be jumping on the root cause of this war.

Two soliders got kidnapped by terrorists, root cause.

Then in that case Canadian soldiers should be killing Afghani civilians. After all a few of our soldiers have been killed as of late and the entire populace is to blame innit?

People are blaming (and justify the killing of civilians) all Lebanese for the actions of Hezbolla....

[Censorship]

This sounds like hysterical babbling, close to hate-speech, and more than slightly unlikely. Israeli troops don't need to go into Jordan, or into Syria, or into Egypt, because those nations don't attack Israel and don't allow people to use their land as a base for attack. That in itself shows that Israel will leave people alone if they leave it alone. The Lebanese and Pallestinians need to stop attacking Israeli border posts, stop having people flying over, digging under or swimming around Israeli border defences so they can kill Jews, and stop firing off mortars and missiles at Israel. It really is THAT simple.

Wait a second - is Argus trying to tell me I can't call Israel a terrorist state? BS.

Israel IS a terrorist state - what other word is there for it? - and I won't abstain from using certain words in order to satisfy your sense of propriety, Argus.

Finally the common people of the US are waking up to the danger that their biased support of Israel is putting them in - finally the discussions will not be dominated by the loudest, most obnoxious and least learned people in the room - people like Argus.

[Argus]

This sounds like hysterical babbling, close to hate-speech, and more than slightly unlikely. Israeli troops don't need to go into Jordan, or into Syria, or into Egypt, because those nations don't attack Israel and don't allow people to use their land as a base for attack. That in itself shows that Israel will leave people alone if they leave it alone. The Lebanese and Pallestinians need to stop attacking Israeli border posts, stop having people flying over, digging under or swimming around Israeli border defences so they can kill Jews, and stop firing off mortars and missiles at Israel. It really is THAT simple.

Wait a second - is Argus trying to tell me I can't call Israel a terrorist state? BS.

I was replying to JMH. Are you JMH in addition to being Kindred? You can call anyone you want a terrorist state, so long as truth doesn't interest you, which is apparently the case.

[scribblet]

The Jewish state is fighting not one enemy, but two: Hezbollah, and those who peddle its propaganda

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/is...53-4041944114ee

The media war against Israel

LONDON - Large sections of the international media are not only misreporting the current conflict in Lebanon. They are actively fanning the flames.

The BBC world service has a strong claim to be the number-one villain. It has come to sound like a virtual propaganda tool for Hezbollah. As it attempts to prove that Israel is guilty of committing "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity," it has introduced a new charge -- one which I have heard several times on-air in recent days.

The newscaster reads out carefully selected "audience comments." Among these are invariably contained some version of the claim that "Israel's attack on Lebanon" will serve as a "recruitment" drive for al-Qaeda.

But if anything is going to win new recruits for Osama bin Laden and his like, it will not be Israel's defensive actions, which are far less damaging than Western TV stations would have us believe, but the inflammatory and one-sided way in which they are being reported by those very same news organizations.

While the slanted comments and interviews are bad enough, the degree of pictorial distortion is even worse. From the way many TV stations worldwide are portraying it, you would think Beirut has begun to resemble Dresden and Hamburg in the aftermath of Second World War air raids. International television channels have used the same footage of Beirut over and over, showing the destruction of a few individual buildings in a manner which suggests half the city has been razed.

A careful look at aerial satellite photos of the areas targeted by Israel in Beirut shows that certain specific buildings housing Hezbollah command centres in the city's southern suburbs have been singled out. Most of the rest of Beirut, apart from strategic sites such as airport runways used to ferry Hezbollah weapons in and out of Lebanon, has been left pretty much untouched.

From the distorted imagery, selective witness accounts, and almost round-the-clock emphasis on casualties, you would be forgiven for thinking that the level of death and destruction in Lebanon is on par with that in Darfur, where Arab militias are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of non-Arabs, or with the 2004 tsunami that killed half a million in Southeast Asia.

In fact, Israel has taken great care to avoid killing civilians -- even though this has proven extremely difficult and often tragically impossible, since members of Hezbollah, the self-styled "Party of God," have deliberately ensconced themselves in civilian homes. Nevertheless the civilian death toll has been mercifully low compared to other international conflicts in recent years.

Last week, a senior journalist let slip how the news media allows its Mideast coverage to be distorted. CNN "senior international correspondent" Nic Robertson admitted that his anti-Israel report from Beirut on July 18 about civilian casualties in Lebanon was stage-managed from start to finish by Hezbollah. In particular, he revealed that his story was heavily influenced by the group's "press officer," and that Hezbollah have "very, very sophisticated and slick media operations

When pressed a few days later about his reporting on the CNN program Reliable Sources, Robertson acknowledged that Hezbollah militants had instructed the CNN camera team where and what to film. Hezbollah "had control of the situation," Robertson said. "They designated the places that we went to, and we certainly didn't have time to go into the houses or lift up the rubble to see what was underneath." ."

[jdobbin]

The Jewish state is fighting not one enemy, but two: Hezbollah, and those who peddle its propaganda

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/is...53-4041944114ee

Perhaps if Israel allowed journalists to be embedded with the troops they'd fair better. After all, the networks just want good pictures and the print people just want good story. The cheerleading would begin immediately.

[Black Dog]

Last week, a senior journalist let slip how the news media allows its Mideast coverage to be distorted. CNN "senior international correspondent" Nic Robertson admitted that his anti-Israel report from Beirut on July 18 about civilian casualties in Lebanon was stage-managed from start to finish by Hezbollah. In particular, he revealed that his story was heavily influenced by the group's "press officer," and that Hezbollah have "very, very sophisticated and slick media operations

When pressed a few days later about his reporting on the CNN program Reliable Sources, Robertson acknowledged that Hezbollah militants had instructed the CNN camera team where and what to film. Hezbollah "had control of the situation," Robertson said. "They designated the places that we went to, and we certainly didn't have time to go into the houses or lift up the rubble to see what was underneath." ."

In other words Hizbullah's media relations operates exactly the same way as Israel, the United States and any other western nation or, indeed, any large organization. But when they do it, it's "distortion." When we do it, it's "fair and balanced."

[Argus]

Last week, a senior journalist let slip how the news media allows its Mideast coverage to be distorted. CNN "senior international correspondent" Nic Robertson admitted that his anti-Israel report from Beirut on July 18 about civilian casualties in Lebanon was stage-managed from start to finish by Hezbollah. In particular, he revealed that his story was heavily influenced by the group's "press officer," and that Hezbollah have "very, very sophisticated and slick media operations

When pressed a few days later about his reporting on the CNN program Reliable Sources, Robertson acknowledged that Hezbollah militants had instructed the CNN camera team where and what to film. Hezbollah "had control of the situation," Robertson said. "They designated the places that we went to, and we certainly didn't have time to go into the houses or lift up the rubble to see what was underneath." ."

In other words Hizbullah's media relations operates exactly the same way as Israel, the United States and any other western nation or, indeed, any large organization. But when they do it, it's "distortion." When we do it, it's "fair and balanced."

Now look at the media pictures. Immediately you see several fishy things. For one, bodies displayed to media are removed, successively, from a single neat hole in the ruins. There is no evidence of a rescue mission having been mounted, or of a continuing search for bodies elsewhere under the rubble. The battered bodies do not resemble those which are seen after most real explosions and building collapses: their wounds do not look recent. All the blood and gore seems to be on just one body.

Moreover, as bloggers such as “Eureferendum” have demonstrated, by juxtaposing press photos from various newspapers, the men showing off the bodies -- and identified in captions as “Lebanese rescue workers” -- are the same as had been present at previous alleged atrocities. They are obviously not rescue workers, but Hezbollah propaganda agents.

The way they are handling and displaying the bodies is entirely inconsistent with rescue work. For instance, they hold up a dead child’s head for the cameras; they point to a pacifier still strung around his neck. But notice: the child’s body is covered in plaster dust, but the pacifier is clean. Such evidence of staging is glaring, everywhere.

Hezbollah's Art of Propaganda

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

What is your point? I would not be surprised for a second if Hizbollah 'dressed up' events to put things in the worst possible light. Apparently the Viet Cong in Indochina had no problem exhuming bodies of their own, sprinkling them with cattle blood and sending pictures of them to the foreign press as examples of 'French atrocities'. Worse, it inevitably worked. Remember the famous photo (and sculptues, stamps, etc) of the US Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima? Staged for the cameras, the flag had been raised hours before.

The way they are handling and displaying the bodies is entirely inconsistent with rescue work

I have seen some pretty stupid things done in some countries, 'inconsistent with our standards', and sometimes common sense, is not unusual.

However, it almost seems as though you are suggesting that no such bombing, or at least no casualties, has occured. I think that would be even more unlikely.